*

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
HDTV Man-

You might want to take a passing glance at HDTV related news once in a while-

HD-DVD (30 GB WORKING TODAY)
Paramount
Universal
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video

Paramount has earlier stated that it will support both HD DVD and Blu-ray and wait and see what next generation optical format will come out as the winner. However it has now changed its mind will instead back up primarily Blu-ray.

Paramount.

One of the absolutely most important parts of the coming DVD-war are Hollywood's great movie studios. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have been backed up by several studios and many of them have decided to support only one format. This was the case with both Paramount and Warner Bros. which earlier was faithful to HD DVD. Now it seems that both Paramount and Warner Bros. has switched partners to Blu-ray. There has now appeared information that points to that also Warner will make movies for the Blu-ray format, a big step back for HD DVD which now only has Universal left as a faithful HD DVD follower.

Warner Bros That includes HBO and New Line.

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-ray in PlayStation 3," said Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, Worldwide Home Entertainment.

Just to give you multiple sources.

That leaves Universal backing HD-DVD exclusively- everyone else has shifted to Blu-Ray. The next gen format wars are over, HD-DVD was obliterated before a single player launched and you can thank MS for handing Sony the victory. HD-DVD will go down as one of the larger losers in any format war ever- they were obliterated before they made it to market.

BLUE RAY (25 GIG WORKING, 50 JUST IN THEORY VAPORWARE)
Fox
Walt Disney
Twentieth Century Fox
Paramount
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video
Sony Studios

/format war

If the Crap you spewed is right, then we have already lost. I say we becuase I can't understand why someone would want to go through this.

A.) Pay for Royalties to Sony for ever pressed and Blank Blu-Ray disc
B.) Wait a decade for capacities that seem great but are almost impossible to make (which garantees a type of Blu-Ray2.)
C.) Once a backup solution is found (which we are allowed) have a future DVD make those same backups not work in the exact player you tested them on before.
D.) Put the $200-$300 purchace of a player in the hands of a $20 DVD in the hopes it won't fry your firmware because it thinks that your player or the disc itself has been hacked.

I really don't understand ow any one on AT would stand for that kind of trash. Me I am going to get a Hd-DVD box. I will also get a HD-DVD burner when they are available. I will then "back up" any blu-Raydisc I have (if it does win) and burn them on to HD-DVD discs for playback in my house.

The technology already exists and technically HD-DVD and BLUE RAY are already losing the war to HD-DIVX, TS, and even though they are H264 they are losing on that front also.

IODATA linkplayer 2 is a HD Media player. It can play HD-DIVX, TS, WMV9, and h264 files streamed, on a DVD, or from a USB hard drive or other usb device. Every day hollywood sits on its rear debating next gen technology it loses. Technology is moving forward reguardless of hollywood. Hollywood is failing to move the technology forward.

How long was MP3 out before the recording industry moved toward online music downloads?

If hollywood has half a brain it would get the cheap available today technology of HD-DVD out there and get the ball rolling before they are like the music industry crying over what MP3 could do to it.

All blue ray and HD-dvd are is higher capacity DVD's. Thats all. They are nothing more than a higher capacity disc. The reality is HD-DVD is cheaper to make both the media and the players. Blue ray adds nothing more than a higher cost and lower profit lines for the movie industry. The movie industry needs to move faster because alternatives are starting to replace what hollywood is not delivering.

How can HD-DIVX be winning when its not a physical disc format but rather a software encoding format? You make no sense. They're going to have to put the data on some type of disc aren't they? What do you think Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are? Both of them support H.264 which means they'll be able to support the universal hi-def format. Sorry, but if you think DVDs are going to be enough for any software format then you're in for a big awakening. The whole point of hi-def is better quality, why would you want to compromise that with a heavy compression scheme?

I think you're buying too much into the FUD that Toshiba is spreading. Do you honestly think they're going to sell HD-DVD movies and players to consumers for less? I don't believe they will. Its cheaper for the companies but not the consumers, so why not get your money's worth? If Sony sells the PS3 for $750, that'll still be significantly cheaper than any HD-DVD player, which are expected to start at over $1000. Lets see, which will look better to consumers, a $750 Blu-Ray player that happens to also be a powerful gaming machine, or a $1000+ HD-DVD player that only plays movies? Hmm. Don't even start talking about the Xbox 360 getting an HD-DVD drive as its a long way off if it gets one, and thats if it gets one, which may never happen.

In all honesty, I don't think Toshiba even has the intention of releasing HD-DVD. They keep pushing it back for some reason or another. I think they're just using it to badger companies around. In fact, Toshiba had all but come out and said HD-DVD would only last a short while compared to DVDs even, as they're already wanting to push a different disc format that they've been working on but haven't really been able to get up and running quite yet.

As for royalties, HD-DVD is no different than Blu-Ray. Either way companies are going to be paying royalties to someone else.

As for Intel and Microsoft. Well Microsoft will support whoever wins. Them claiming to support one format means nothing, because if HD-DVD never makes it to market or gets clobbered then it would be pointless for MS not to support Blu-Ray, which they will one way or another, as Dell and HP and many other companies will be putting those drives in their computer systems. Intel all but doesn't matter as they have little to nothing to do with optical discs. Considering that most of the companies they deal with are supporting Blu-Ray, their stance on things doesn't matter.

The fact that I have been enjoying HD Media over the last 1.2 years on various formats makes me pretty much an expert to this. Since my HD DVD/stream/usb player is numbered in the tens when you still think the war hasnt started. The idea you havent a clue on HD-DIVX shows me how little you know about HD and what is going on.

All the newbs talk about is H264 because its the first they heard of an HD format. Its welcome and good format for home consumers. It needs to be released. Its pathetic the movie industry hasnt gotten to it yet. Yawn.

The idea that you didnt realize blue ray will cost much more to produce and is not backwards compatible and will require a secondary laser assembly also tells me you dont know about HD.

I dont know where you got your information from because I think you just made it up.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: route66
How many people does it take to tell HTDVMan he's wrong about the 'physics instructions' in the ATI GPU until he gets it.

This is the last time I will say it:

There is no PPU on an ATI GPU. ATI is using the GPU for general purpose math, from which this general purpose math is also quite good at physics. Using the GPU for general purpose math is faster than using a CPU for general purpose math, therefore ATI thinks its great. But what they don't explicitly say is that using the GPU for general purpose math (or physics) takes away processing power from the GPU to process graphics. There is no seperate 'pipeline' or 'core' to the ATI GPU that can be used for physics without removing processing power from the ATI GPU. The GPU on an XBOX360 is already at a bare minimum to keep profits up, therefore it is silly to take any processing power from the GPU to do physics unless the graphics on your game sucks. Using the ATI GPU for physics math isn't free processing - that processing power has to come from somewhere.

Again SLIDE 10 shows the GPU has PPU abilities.

Go read exactly what it says. It does not say anything about there being a PPU on the chip itself.

It says exactly this and only this about physics: Physical simulation - GPGPU

That doesn't tell you anything and they do not show in any of their diagrams a physics processing unit.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
HDTV Man-

You might want to take a passing glance at HDTV related news once in a while-

HD-DVD (30 GB WORKING TODAY)
Paramount
Universal
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video

Paramount has earlier stated that it will support both HD DVD and Blu-ray and wait and see what next generation optical format will come out as the winner. However it has now changed its mind will instead back up primarily Blu-ray.

Paramount.

One of the absolutely most important parts of the coming DVD-war are Hollywood's great movie studios. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have been backed up by several studios and many of them have decided to support only one format. This was the case with both Paramount and Warner Bros. which earlier was faithful to HD DVD. Now it seems that both Paramount and Warner Bros. has switched partners to Blu-ray. There has now appeared information that points to that also Warner will make movies for the Blu-ray format, a big step back for HD DVD which now only has Universal left as a faithful HD DVD follower.

Warner Bros That includes HBO and New Line.

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-ray in PlayStation 3," said Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, Worldwide Home Entertainment.

Just to give you multiple sources.

That leaves Universal backing HD-DVD exclusively- everyone else has shifted to Blu-Ray. The next gen format wars are over, HD-DVD was obliterated before a single player launched and you can thank MS for handing Sony the victory. HD-DVD will go down as one of the larger losers in any format war ever- they were obliterated before they made it to market.

BLUE RAY (25 GIG WORKING, 50 JUST IN THEORY VAPORWARE)
Fox
Walt Disney
Twentieth Century Fox
Paramount
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video
Sony Studios

/format war

If the Crap you spewed is right, then we have already lost. I say we becuase I can't understand why someone would want to go through this.

A.) Pay for Royalties to Sony for ever pressed and Blank Blu-Ray disc
B.) Wait a decade for capacities that seem great but are almost impossible to make (which garantees a type of Blu-Ray2.)
C.) Once a backup solution is found (which we are allowed) have a future DVD make those same backups not work in the exact player you tested them on before.
D.) Put the $200-$300 purchace of a player in the hands of a $20 DVD in the hopes it won't fry your firmware because it thinks that your player or the disc itself has been hacked.

I really don't understand ow any one on AT would stand for that kind of trash. Me I am going to get a Hd-DVD box. I will also get a HD-DVD burner when they are available. I will then "back up" any blu-Raydisc I have (if it does win) and burn them on to HD-DVD discs for playback in my house.

The technology already exists and technically HD-DVD and BLUE RAY are already losing the war to HD-DIVX, TS, and even though they are H264 they are losing on that front also.

IODATA linkplayer 2 is a HD Media player. It can play HD-DIVX, TS, WMV9, and h264 files streamed, on a DVD, or from a USB hard drive or other usb device. Every day hollywood sits on its rear debating next gen technology it loses. Technology is moving forward reguardless of hollywood. Hollywood is failing to move the technology forward.

How long was MP3 out before the recording industry moved toward online music downloads?

If hollywood has half a brain it would get the cheap available today technology of HD-DVD out there and get the ball rolling before they are like the music industry crying over what MP3 could do to it.

All blue ray and HD-dvd are is higher capacity DVD's. Thats all. They are nothing more than a higher capacity disc. The reality is HD-DVD is cheaper to make both the media and the players. Blue ray adds nothing more than a higher cost and lower profit lines for the movie industry. The movie industry needs to move faster because alternatives are starting to replace what hollywood is not delivering.

How can HD-DIVX be winning when its not a physical disc format but rather a software encoding format? You make no sense. They're going to have to put the data on some type of disc aren't they? What do you think Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are? Both of them support H.264 which means they'll be able to support the universal hi-def format. Sorry, but if you think DVDs are going to be enough for any software format then you're in for a big awakening. The whole point of hi-def is better quality, why would you want to compromise that with a heavy compression scheme?

I think you're buying too much into the FUD that Toshiba is spreading. Do you honestly think they're going to sell HD-DVD movies and players to consumers for less? I don't believe they will. Its cheaper for the companies but not the consumers, so why not get your money's worth? If Sony sells the PS3 for $750, that'll still be significantly cheaper than any HD-DVD player, which are expected to start at over $1000. Lets see, which will look better to consumers, a $750 Blu-Ray player that happens to also be a powerful gaming machine, or a $1000+ HD-DVD player that only plays movies? Hmm. Don't even start talking about the Xbox 360 getting an HD-DVD drive as its a long way off if it gets one, and thats if it gets one, which may never happen.

In all honesty, I don't think Toshiba even has the intention of releasing HD-DVD. They keep pushing it back for some reason or another. I think they're just using it to badger companies around. In fact, Toshiba had all but come out and said HD-DVD would only last a short while compared to DVDs even, as they're already wanting to push a different disc format that they've been working on but haven't really been able to get up and running quite yet.

As for royalties, HD-DVD is no different than Blu-Ray. Either way companies are going to be paying royalties to someone else.

As for Intel and Microsoft. Well Microsoft will support whoever wins. Them claiming to support one format means nothing, because if HD-DVD never makes it to market or gets clobbered then it would be pointless for MS not to support Blu-Ray, which they will one way or another, as Dell and HP and many other companies will be putting those drives in their computer systems. Intel all but doesn't matter as they have little to nothing to do with optical discs. Considering that most of the companies they deal with are supporting Blu-Ray, their stance on things doesn't matter.

The fact that I have been enjoying HD Media over the last 1.2 years on various formats makes me pretty much an expert to this. Since my HD DVD/stream/usb player is numbered in the tens when you still think the war hasnt started. The idea you havent a clue on HD-DIVX shows me how little you know about HD and what is going on.

All the newbs talk about is H264 because its the first they heard of an HD format. Its welcome and good format for home consumers. It needs to be released. Its pathetic the movie industry hasnt gotten to it yet. Yawn.

The idea that you didnt realize blue ray will cost much more to produce and is not backwards compatible and will require a secondary laser assembly also tells me you dont know about HD.

I dont know where you got your information from because I think you just made it up.

Yeah, you're an expert :roll:

Like I said, they have to have a physical disc to put the content on. What do you think they're going to distribute it on, hard drives? That is what the conflict between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is. It has nothing to do with the software format, as they can both support whatever. But you have to have something to put the content on so that the conumer can get it. Online/digital distribution has not taken off for video and since internet is still relatively slow, I doubt that in the near future (within the next year or two) that people are going to want to download several gigabyte sized movies and try to store them. There are a lot of people who feel that if they purchase something then they want to have it in physical form.

Like I said, it will be somewhat cheaper for the companies (mostly because they don't have to totally retool for Blu-Ray discs), but most likely not for consumers. They speak about price, but clearly do not indicate they have any intention of passing it onto consumers. Also Blu-Ray players will be backwards compatible. Its not a big deal to add a second laser. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, HD-DVD players will need a second laser as well, so your point there is well, pointless.

I'm the one making up info? You're the one citing yourself as an expert. Yet when clearly given evidence contrary to your beliefs (the PPU on GPU?) you fail to accept that what people are telling you is correct.

I see you're unreasonably sticking to your own thoughts about this and so won't try to explain things to you anymore as you're clearly not grasping them.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: route66
How many people does it take to tell HTDVMan he's wrong about the 'physics instructions' in the ATI GPU until he gets it.

This is the last time I will say it:

There is no PPU on an ATI GPU. ATI is using the GPU for general purpose math, from which this general purpose math is also quite good at physics. Using the GPU for general purpose math is faster than using a CPU for general purpose math, therefore ATI thinks its great. But what they don't explicitly say is that using the GPU for general purpose math (or physics) takes away processing power from the GPU to process graphics. There is no seperate 'pipeline' or 'core' to the ATI GPU that can be used for physics without removing processing power from the ATI GPU. The GPU on an XBOX360 is already at a bare minimum to keep profits up, therefore it is silly to take any processing power from the GPU to do physics unless the graphics on your game sucks. Using the ATI GPU for physics math isn't free processing - that processing power has to come from somewhere.

Again SLIDE 10 shows the GPU has PPU abilities.

Go read exactly what it says. It does not say anything about there being a PPU on the chip itself.

It says exactly this and only this about physics: Physical simulation - GPGPU

That doesn't tell you anything and they do not show in any of their diagrams a physics processing unit.

I never said it had a PPU I said it has PPU Abilities. It all depends on what those abilities are. If they are anything like the 1000 series that it can be interesting.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
HDTV Man-

You might want to take a passing glance at HDTV related news once in a while-

HD-DVD (30 GB WORKING TODAY)
Paramount
Universal
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video

Paramount has earlier stated that it will support both HD DVD and Blu-ray and wait and see what next generation optical format will come out as the winner. However it has now changed its mind will instead back up primarily Blu-ray.

Paramount.

One of the absolutely most important parts of the coming DVD-war are Hollywood's great movie studios. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have been backed up by several studios and many of them have decided to support only one format. This was the case with both Paramount and Warner Bros. which earlier was faithful to HD DVD. Now it seems that both Paramount and Warner Bros. has switched partners to Blu-ray. There has now appeared information that points to that also Warner will make movies for the Blu-ray format, a big step back for HD DVD which now only has Universal left as a faithful HD DVD follower.

Warner Bros That includes HBO and New Line.

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-ray in PlayStation 3," said Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, Worldwide Home Entertainment.

Just to give you multiple sources.

That leaves Universal backing HD-DVD exclusively- everyone else has shifted to Blu-Ray. The next gen format wars are over, HD-DVD was obliterated before a single player launched and you can thank MS for handing Sony the victory. HD-DVD will go down as one of the larger losers in any format war ever- they were obliterated before they made it to market.

BLUE RAY (25 GIG WORKING, 50 JUST IN THEORY VAPORWARE)
Fox
Walt Disney
Twentieth Century Fox
Paramount
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video
Sony Studios

/format war

If the Crap you spewed is right, then we have already lost. I say we becuase I can't understand why someone would want to go through this.

A.) Pay for Royalties to Sony for ever pressed and Blank Blu-Ray disc
B.) Wait a decade for capacities that seem great but are almost impossible to make (which garantees a type of Blu-Ray2.)
C.) Once a backup solution is found (which we are allowed) have a future DVD make those same backups not work in the exact player you tested them on before.
D.) Put the $200-$300 purchace of a player in the hands of a $20 DVD in the hopes it won't fry your firmware because it thinks that your player or the disc itself has been hacked.

I really don't understand ow any one on AT would stand for that kind of trash. Me I am going to get a Hd-DVD box. I will also get a HD-DVD burner when they are available. I will then "back up" any blu-Raydisc I have (if it does win) and burn them on to HD-DVD discs for playback in my house.

The technology already exists and technically HD-DVD and BLUE RAY are already losing the war to HD-DIVX, TS, and even though they are H264 they are losing on that front also.

IODATA linkplayer 2 is a HD Media player. It can play HD-DIVX, TS, WMV9, and h264 files streamed, on a DVD, or from a USB hard drive or other usb device. Every day hollywood sits on its rear debating next gen technology it loses. Technology is moving forward reguardless of hollywood. Hollywood is failing to move the technology forward.

How long was MP3 out before the recording industry moved toward online music downloads?

If hollywood has half a brain it would get the cheap available today technology of HD-DVD out there and get the ball rolling before they are like the music industry crying over what MP3 could do to it.

All blue ray and HD-dvd are is higher capacity DVD's. Thats all. They are nothing more than a higher capacity disc. The reality is HD-DVD is cheaper to make both the media and the players. Blue ray adds nothing more than a higher cost and lower profit lines for the movie industry. The movie industry needs to move faster because alternatives are starting to replace what hollywood is not delivering.

How can HD-DIVX be winning when its not a physical disc format but rather a software encoding format? You make no sense. They're going to have to put the data on some type of disc aren't they? What do you think Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are? Both of them support H.264 which means they'll be able to support the universal hi-def format. Sorry, but if you think DVDs are going to be enough for any software format then you're in for a big awakening. The whole point of hi-def is better quality, why would you want to compromise that with a heavy compression scheme?

I think you're buying too much into the FUD that Toshiba is spreading. Do you honestly think they're going to sell HD-DVD movies and players to consumers for less? I don't believe they will. Its cheaper for the companies but not the consumers, so why not get your money's worth? If Sony sells the PS3 for $750, that'll still be significantly cheaper than any HD-DVD player, which are expected to start at over $1000. Lets see, which will look better to consumers, a $750 Blu-Ray player that happens to also be a powerful gaming machine, or a $1000+ HD-DVD player that only plays movies? Hmm. Don't even start talking about the Xbox 360 getting an HD-DVD drive as its a long way off if it gets one, and thats if it gets one, which may never happen.

In all honesty, I don't think Toshiba even has the intention of releasing HD-DVD. They keep pushing it back for some reason or another. I think they're just using it to badger companies around. In fact, Toshiba had all but come out and said HD-DVD would only last a short while compared to DVDs even, as they're already wanting to push a different disc format that they've been working on but haven't really been able to get up and running quite yet.

As for royalties, HD-DVD is no different than Blu-Ray. Either way companies are going to be paying royalties to someone else.

As for Intel and Microsoft. Well Microsoft will support whoever wins. Them claiming to support one format means nothing, because if HD-DVD never makes it to market or gets clobbered then it would be pointless for MS not to support Blu-Ray, which they will one way or another, as Dell and HP and many other companies will be putting those drives in their computer systems. Intel all but doesn't matter as they have little to nothing to do with optical discs. Considering that most of the companies they deal with are supporting Blu-Ray, their stance on things doesn't matter.

The fact that I have been enjoying HD Media over the last 1.2 years on various formats makes me pretty much an expert to this. Since my HD DVD/stream/usb player is numbered in the tens when you still think the war hasnt started. The idea you havent a clue on HD-DIVX shows me how little you know about HD and what is going on.

All the newbs talk about is H264 because its the first they heard of an HD format. Its welcome and good format for home consumers. It needs to be released. Its pathetic the movie industry hasnt gotten to it yet. Yawn.

The idea that you didnt realize blue ray will cost much more to produce and is not backwards compatible and will require a secondary laser assembly also tells me you dont know about HD.

I dont know where you got your information from because I think you just made it up.

Yeah, you're an expert :roll:

Like I said, they have to have a physical disc to put the content on. What do you think they're going to distribute it on, hard drives? That is what the conflict between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is. It has nothing to do with the software format, as they can both support whatever. But you have to have something to put the content on so that the conumer can get it. Online/digital distribution has not taken off for video and since internet is still relatively slow, I doubt that in the near future (within the next year or two) that people are going to want to download several gigabyte sized movies and try to store them. There are a lot of people who feel that if they purchase something then they want to have it in physical form.

Like I said, it will be somewhat cheaper for the companies (mostly because they don't have to totally retool for Blu-Ray discs), but most likely not for consumers. They speak about price, but clearly do not indicate they have any intention of passing it onto consumers. Also Blu-Ray players will be backwards compatible. Its not a big deal to add a second laser. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, HD-DVD players will need a second laser as well, so your point there is well, pointless.

I'm the one making up info? You're the one citing yourself as an expert. Yet when clearly given evidence contrary to your beliefs (the PPU on GPU?) you fail to accept that what people are telling you is correct.

I see you're unreasonably sticking to your own thoughts about this and so won't try to explain things to you anymore as you're clearly not grasping them.

Im the one watching HD content for over 1.2 years on various formats from a HD media player in my living room. How about you? Waiting for a HD Dvd player? I can certainly watch H264 content today and for over a year now. Just pop the DVD in and watch away. I can possibly be able to remove the HD with standard DVD player on my HD DVD player and replace it with the next gen higher capacity DVD drive when they are available.

I can watch a HD-DIVX without a PC. Today and 1.2 years ago.
I can watch a TS files without a PC today and 1.2 years ago.
I could also do the same with WMV9 now that DRM is built into the bios.

The only thing is my HD media DVD player cant hold more than 9.4gigs on a disc so I have to change the disc or keep the files on a PC or USB hard drive.

As for Toshiba not holding back the HD-DVD it was because it wanted to have a large supply available when it released it.

Here is a link.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20050929042736.html

Here is my HD Media player.
http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/prod...EL&ts=2&tsc=&sc=AVEL&pId=AVLP2%2FDVDLA

Read the specs at the bottom.
Supported Media Format (*1) DVD-Video / DivX® HD DVD (UDF) / Video CD / CD-ROM / CD-DA / DVD-ROM, Media Type: DVD -R / -RW / +R / +RW / CD-R / -RW

Supported Video MPEG-1/MPEG-2/MPEG2-TS/DivX® VIDEO/XviD/WMV9

Here is a link for DIVX-HD
http://www.divxnetworks.com/solutions/hd/index.php

 

[Justin343563611]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8887
After reading that article on how the ATI Radeon 1000 series contain Physics code while comparing it to the nvidia card as being lackluster in this area makes me wonder.

Could the chip in the xbox 360 contain physics code? If so and the performance numbers are corrent then there is no way nvidia can get to the drawing board to allow for physics to be implemented in the PS3 before launch. I know the multi core cpu of the PS3 can possibly help with physics however I dont believe its inherently designed with physics enhancements initially. Meaning it would have to compute it the same way a regular cpu would.

With the Nintendo Revolution having an ATI chip it makes me wonder how power the Revolution might just be. Have they announced the CPU yet? Man if they go with an AMD for the cpu then I would believe Nintendo got it right this time around.

IBM is the maker of the Revolution CPU, it's codenamed Broadway(I think).

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Yes, but the XBOX360 doesn't have a PPU so what is your point?

Yes it does.
It has some PPU built into the GPU so it doesnt need an extra chip to do PPU.
Slide 10 of the recent released ATI slides show it does.

No, it doesn't. It can run physics algorithms rather well because of its massive floating point power, but it would do so in place of graphics work. It does NOT have a separate PPU built in, it just has the ability to run physics code (and possibly faster than a CPU simply b/c it can crunch far more raw numbers).

Your problem may be one of perception that stems from your OP: neither the Radeon X1000 series nor Xenos "contain" physics code. They just have the ability to run it because of some new pixel shader and memory access functions. It doesn't mean they can run it simultaneously with their usual graphics load.

I tried to find this "slide 10," but neither Mike Houston's PDF nor the Xb360 "GPU Tech Papers" at teamxbox shows anything related to physics (let alone a separate PPU within the C1 GPU) in their tenth slide. Mind pointing me to it?

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
HDTV Man-

You might want to take a passing glance at HDTV related news once in a while-

HD-DVD (30 GB WORKING TODAY)
Paramount
Universal
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video

Paramount has earlier stated that it will support both HD DVD and Blu-ray and wait and see what next generation optical format will come out as the winner. However it has now changed its mind will instead back up primarily Blu-ray.

Paramount.

One of the absolutely most important parts of the coming DVD-war are Hollywood's great movie studios. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have been backed up by several studios and many of them have decided to support only one format. This was the case with both Paramount and Warner Bros. which earlier was faithful to HD DVD. Now it seems that both Paramount and Warner Bros. has switched partners to Blu-ray. There has now appeared information that points to that also Warner will make movies for the Blu-ray format, a big step back for HD DVD which now only has Universal left as a faithful HD DVD follower.

Warner Bros That includes HBO and New Line.

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-ray in PlayStation 3," said Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, Worldwide Home Entertainment.

Just to give you multiple sources.

That leaves Universal backing HD-DVD exclusively- everyone else has shifted to Blu-Ray. The next gen format wars are over, HD-DVD was obliterated before a single player launched and you can thank MS for handing Sony the victory. HD-DVD will go down as one of the larger losers in any format war ever- they were obliterated before they made it to market.

BLUE RAY (25 GIG WORKING, 50 JUST IN THEORY VAPORWARE)
Fox
Walt Disney
Twentieth Century Fox
Paramount
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video
Sony Studios

/format war

If the Crap you spewed is right, then we have already lost. I say we becuase I can't understand why someone would want to go through this.

A.) Pay for Royalties to Sony for ever pressed and Blank Blu-Ray disc
B.) Wait a decade for capacities that seem great but are almost impossible to make (which garantees a type of Blu-Ray2.)
C.) Once a backup solution is found (which we are allowed) have a future DVD make those same backups not work in the exact player you tested them on before.
D.) Put the $200-$300 purchace of a player in the hands of a $20 DVD in the hopes it won't fry your firmware because it thinks that your player or the disc itself has been hacked.

I really don't understand ow any one on AT would stand for that kind of trash. Me I am going to get a Hd-DVD box. I will also get a HD-DVD burner when they are available. I will then "back up" any blu-Raydisc I have (if it does win) and burn them on to HD-DVD discs for playback in my house.

Blue Ray's over zealous anti-piracy features are a major reason it has won support of so many of the content providers. Many of whom initially were in the HD-DVD camp. The specs as they stand now are definitely bad news for end users.

The HD-DVD consortium is attacking Blue Ray on the wrong front. They are saying that the Blue Ray technology isn't ready or its inferior, a dubious position at best, seeing as from a purely technical standpoint Blue Ray is probably superior. However, if they were smart they would go after the consumer market by publicising the Draconian anti-piracy features of Blue Ray that pretty much throw "fair use" out the window.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Yes, but the XBOX360 doesn't have a PPU so what is your point?

Yes it does.
It has some PPU built into the GPU so it doesnt need an extra chip to do PPU.
Slide 10 of the recent released ATI slides show it does.

No, it doesn't. It can run physics algorithms rather well because of its massive floating point power, but it would do so in place of graphics work. It does NOT have a separate PPU built in, it just has the ability to run physics code (and possibly faster than a CPU simply b/c it can crunch far more raw numbers).

Your problem may be one of perception that stems from your OP: neither the Radeon X1000 series nor Xenos "contain" physics code. They just have the ability to run it because of some new pixel shader and memory access functions. It doesn't mean they can run it simultaneously with their usual graphics load.

I tried to find this "slide 10," but neither Mike Houston's PDF nor the Xb360 "GPU Tech Papers" at teamxbox shows anything related to physics (let alone a separate PPU within the C1 GPU) in their tenth slide. Mind pointing me to it?

Thats a good explanation.

I believed it was here.
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9487/ATI-Releases-Xbox-360-GPU-Technology-Papers/

Previously said Physics simulation - GPGPU
Now it says
Physical simulation - GPGPU

I believe that caused some to say it has physics and some to say it doesnt. Amazing what a typo can do.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: ZimZum

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
HDTV Man-

You might want to take a passing glance at HDTV related news once in a while-

HD-DVD (30 GB WORKING TODAY)
Paramount
Universal
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video

Paramount has earlier stated that it will support both HD DVD and Blu-ray and wait and see what next generation optical format will come out as the winner. However it has now changed its mind will instead back up primarily Blu-ray.

Paramount.

One of the absolutely most important parts of the coming DVD-war are Hollywood's great movie studios. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have been backed up by several studios and many of them have decided to support only one format. This was the case with both Paramount and Warner Bros. which earlier was faithful to HD DVD. Now it seems that both Paramount and Warner Bros. has switched partners to Blu-ray. There has now appeared information that points to that also Warner will make movies for the Blu-ray format, a big step back for HD DVD which now only has Universal left as a faithful HD DVD follower.

Warner Bros That includes HBO and New Line.

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-ray in PlayStation 3," said Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, Worldwide Home Entertainment.

Just to give you multiple sources.

That leaves Universal backing HD-DVD exclusively- everyone else has shifted to Blu-Ray. The next gen format wars are over, HD-DVD was obliterated before a single player launched and you can thank MS for handing Sony the victory. HD-DVD will go down as one of the larger losers in any format war ever- they were obliterated before they made it to market.

BLUE RAY (25 GIG WORKING, 50 JUST IN THEORY VAPORWARE)
Fox
Walt Disney
Twentieth Century Fox
Paramount
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video
Sony Studios

/format war

If the Crap you spewed is right, then we have already lost. I say we becuase I can't understand why someone would want to go through this.

A.) Pay for Royalties to Sony for ever pressed and Blank Blu-Ray disc
B.) Wait a decade for capacities that seem great but are almost impossible to make (which garantees a type of Blu-Ray2.)
C.) Once a backup solution is found (which we are allowed) have a future DVD make those same backups not work in the exact player you tested them on before.
D.) Put the $200-$300 purchace of a player in the hands of a $20 DVD in the hopes it won't fry your firmware because it thinks that your player or the disc itself has been hacked.

I really don't understand ow any one on AT would stand for that kind of trash. Me I am going to get a Hd-DVD box. I will also get a HD-DVD burner when they are available. I will then "back up" any blu-Raydisc I have (if it does win) and burn them on to HD-DVD discs for playback in my house.

Blue Ray's over zealous anti-piracy features are a major reason it has won support of so many of the content providers. Many of whom initially were in the HD-DVD camp. The specs as they stand now are definitely bad news for end users.

The HD-DVD consortium is attacking Blue Ray on the wrong front. They are saying that the Blue Ray technology isn't ready or its inferior, a dubious position at best, seeing as from a purely technical standpoint Blue Ray is probably superior. However, if they were smart they would go after the consumer market by publicising the Draconian anti-piracy features of Blue Ray that pretty much throw "fair use" out the window.

Neither are superior especially since they both use the same decoding codec. Makes them look bad if they say that.

It should all come down to the media and cost. Blue Ray is in a Cartridge is much more costly than an HD-DVD. The hardware to produce either is pretty much the same with a few minor differences. In the end they can make more money on HD-DVD than they can from Blue Ray. Some believe they can pass the cost onto the consumer but a lower cost means it will appeal to a wider variety of consumer. The drive is the expensive part. Surrounding hardware no longer is.

HD-DIVX compression which is 5 times smaller than Mpeg 2 ts is only 5% visual difference. You just wont see the difference if coded properly.

Either technology will be cracked within time of its release. The idea hollywood could be convinced Blue Ray will be more secure shows thier nieve. That just means it will take somone an additional month to work it out. Then there will be certain hd players that have secret menus or bios changes or have a way that you can add a firewire port to the device.

As for disc size a 3.5hour HD movie uncompressed in TS with DTS is 27gig. So 30 gig is plenty of space. H264 will only allow even more.

The pathetic part is by the time they figure out a standard then UHDV will be here. Oh that was just about speced out in 2003 so I guess its here in a way.

For those of you who are wondering UHDV is 7680 × 4320. Take that 1080P.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: ZimZum

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
HDTV Man-

You might want to take a passing glance at HDTV related news once in a while-

HD-DVD (30 GB WORKING TODAY)
Paramount
Universal
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video

Paramount has earlier stated that it will support both HD DVD and Blu-ray and wait and see what next generation optical format will come out as the winner. However it has now changed its mind will instead back up primarily Blu-ray.

Paramount.

One of the absolutely most important parts of the coming DVD-war are Hollywood's great movie studios. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have been backed up by several studios and many of them have decided to support only one format. This was the case with both Paramount and Warner Bros. which earlier was faithful to HD DVD. Now it seems that both Paramount and Warner Bros. has switched partners to Blu-ray. There has now appeared information that points to that also Warner will make movies for the Blu-ray format, a big step back for HD DVD which now only has Universal left as a faithful HD DVD follower.

Warner Bros That includes HBO and New Line.

"We have been intrigued by the broad support of Blu-ray, especially the key advantage of including Blu-ray in PlayStation 3," said Thomas Lesinski, president of Paramount Pictures, Worldwide Home Entertainment.

Just to give you multiple sources.

That leaves Universal backing HD-DVD exclusively- everyone else has shifted to Blu-Ray. The next gen format wars are over, HD-DVD was obliterated before a single player launched and you can thank MS for handing Sony the victory. HD-DVD will go down as one of the larger losers in any format war ever- they were obliterated before they made it to market.

BLUE RAY (25 GIG WORKING, 50 JUST IN THEORY VAPORWARE)
Fox
Walt Disney
Twentieth Century Fox
Paramount
HBO
New Line Cinema
Warner Home Video
Sony Studios

/format war

If the Crap you spewed is right, then we have already lost. I say we becuase I can't understand why someone would want to go through this.

A.) Pay for Royalties to Sony for ever pressed and Blank Blu-Ray disc
B.) Wait a decade for capacities that seem great but are almost impossible to make (which garantees a type of Blu-Ray2.)
C.) Once a backup solution is found (which we are allowed) have a future DVD make those same backups not work in the exact player you tested them on before.
D.) Put the $200-$300 purchace of a player in the hands of a $20 DVD in the hopes it won't fry your firmware because it thinks that your player or the disc itself has been hacked.

I really don't understand ow any one on AT would stand for that kind of trash. Me I am going to get a Hd-DVD box. I will also get a HD-DVD burner when they are available. I will then "back up" any blu-Raydisc I have (if it does win) and burn them on to HD-DVD discs for playback in my house.

Blue Ray's over zealous anti-piracy features are a major reason it has won support of so many of the content providers. Many of whom initially were in the HD-DVD camp. The specs as they stand now are definitely bad news for end users.

The HD-DVD consortium is attacking Blue Ray on the wrong front. They are saying that the Blue Ray technology isn't ready or its inferior, a dubious position at best, seeing as from a purely technical standpoint Blue Ray is probably superior. However, if they were smart they would go after the consumer market by publicising the Draconian anti-piracy features of Blue Ray that pretty much throw "fair use" out the window.

Neither are superior especially since they both use the same decoding codec. Makes them look bad if they say that.

It should all come down to the media and cost. Blue Ray is in a Cartridge is much more costly than an HD-DVD. The hardware to produce either is pretty much the same with a few minor differences. In the end they can make more money on HD-DVD than they can from Blue Ray. Some believe they can pass the cost onto the consumer but a lower cost means it will appeal to a wider variety of consumer. The drive is the expensive part. Surrounding hardware no longer is.

HD-DIVX compression which is 5 times smaller than Mpeg 2 ts is only 5% visual difference. You just wont see the difference if coded properly.

Either technology will be cracked within time of its release. The idea hollywood could be convinced Blue Ray will be more secure shows thier nieve. That just means it will take somone an additional month to work it out. Then there will be certain hd players that have secret menus or bios changes or have a way that you can add a firewire port to the device.

As for disc size a 3.5hour HD movie uncompressed in TS with DTS is 27gig. So 30 gig is plenty of space. H264 will only allow even more.

The pathetic part is by the time they figure out a standard then UHDV will be here. Oh that was just about speced out in 2003 so I guess its here in a way.

For those of you who are wondering UHDV is 7680 × 4320. Take that 1080P.

I now Prenounce you Dumbest Smart man ever.

You seem to not be understanding that we are talking about the discs, not the f-ing rez or codec. Blu-Ray is both a higher capacity and and faster transfer speed disc. This means it is The superior Disc. When we are refering to the copy right and DRM stuff we are talking about Pree Pressed retail movies and games. Tell me when you can go to the store and Pick up episode III on a HD-Divx preburned disc with a Player dedicated to playing it.

The fact is both techs are going to be sucsessfull in all the wrong places. Blu-Ray as a tech would be better for computer uses. But just above normal copy protection tech would be better for Set tops since neither transfer speeds or size isn't as important. But Blu-Ray writeables because it is sony are going to take forever to come out if ever and HD-DVD will probably become a High Density Optical backup disc for desktops

 

[HDTVMan]

I should have realized on a message board of several thousand there are just a few who think they know better. As well when any thread reaches beyond 2-3 pages many will cut to the last page and assume what were talking about in the middle hasnt been covered.

We covered the discs. Nice to enter the conversation in the middle.

I bet a 20 years of experience plumber could post here on how to connect 2 pipes together and there would still be a few who say he is doing it wrong.

I am failing to answer questions on this any more. Im enjoying HD and so could you today. Instead I find it interesting there are those telling me what I have been doing for such a long time cant be done yet or isnt being done yet.

 

[Exposed123]

HDTV Man,

Everyone is getting on your case here because you don't seem to get it that the X1000 series do NOT have dedicated hardware for physics processing, or anything internally designed for physics at all. It is an annoying ignorance (that some have pointed out as a broken record) that you keep bringing up, especially with quotes like this:

You dont understand that a GPU and PPU are 2 different things? You can do some big math on a GPU but they dont crank out physics like a PPU will. Of course only the new ATI 1000 series adds some PPU abilities. The NVIDIA card DO NOT!



ALL GPU's are capable of limited physics processing (and other specialized tasks as well). The X1800 series only advantage is raw power, it does not have any more PPU specific attributes at all than other GPU's on the market, that for some reason you think it does.

The fact that you point to a page 10 ATI slide that doesn't even support the case you're trying to make, as other people pointed out above, shows you need to really comprehend a little more of what you're reading. But here, I'll help you.

The scientific community has only now recently turned to GPUs for highly complex scientific studies. Stanford Universtity used 6800's for fluid dynamics and quantum simulations. GPU's are now commonly used for biological and genetic simulations.

There is even a compiler for Nvidia GPU's called BrookGPU that is specifically designed for scientific purposes.

With the new GPUs features mentioned above, people started to look at the GPU as a powerful vector coprocessor to the CPU. The intermediate values during a computaion (unsing float buffers) are no longer clamped. Additionally, another good reason to use them as a coprocessor is its parallel nature at the razterization stage (pixel-level). In this way texture-images become matrices of values to do computation. Nowadays, GPUs are being used for linear Algebra computation, signal-images processing, physical simulation and so on ...
http://www.csit.fsu.edu/~blanco/gpusc/gpusc_project.htm

The difference between the X1800 (and the ONLY difference), is that ATI looks be writing their own BrookGPU equivalant, whereas it was the scientific community (not Nvidia) that developed BrookGPU.

Here is a good website to check out for GPU accelerated applications:
http://www.gpgpu.org/

Here's a good article concerning the 7800GTX being used for non graphical purposes in the scientific and engineering community:
http://apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/5F125BA4653309A3CA25705A0005AD27

 

[HDTVMan]

I get it Exposed123

The Radeon 1000 series does have PPU instructions it was possible the 360 did also. It turns out it didnt after slide was changed possibly because of a typo.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Impossible because:

NVIDIA >>>>>>>>>>>> ATI and ATI SUX0RZ cuz R520 blowz0rz so thus Xbox360 sux0rz too. That's what my cousin called me to say.

However, I do believe in XBox360. It's quite interesting to read this..... but I'll continue gaming on my PC.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: Exposed123
HDTV Man,

Everyone is getting on your case here because you don't seem to get it that the X1000 series do NOT have dedicated hardware for physics processing, or anything internally designed for physics at all. It is an annoying ignorance (that some have pointed out as a broken record) that you keep bringing up, especially with quotes like this:

You dont understand that a GPU and PPU are 2 different things? You can do some big math on a GPU but they dont crank out physics like a PPU will. Of course only the new ATI 1000 series adds some PPU abilities. The NVIDIA card DO NOT!



ALL GPU's are capable of limited physics processing (and other specialized tasks as well). The X1800 series only advantage is raw power, it does not have any more PPU specific attributes at all than other GPU's on the market, that for some reason you think it does.

The fact that you point to a page 10 ATI slide that doesn't even support the case you're trying to make, as other people pointed out above, shows you need to really comprehend a little more of what you're reading. But here, I'll help you.

The scientific community has only now recently turned to GPUs for highly complex scientific studies. Stanford Universtity used 6800's for fluid dynamics and quantum simulations. GPU's are now commonly used for biological and genetic simulations.

There is even a compiler for Nvidia GPU's called BrookGPU that is specifically designed for scientific purposes.

With the new GPUs features mentioned above, people started to look at the GPU as a powerful vector coprocessor to the CPU. The intermediate values during a computaion (unsing float buffers) are no longer clamped. Additionally, another good reason to use them as a coprocessor is its parallel nature at the razterization stage (pixel-level). In this way texture-images become matrices of values to do computation. Nowadays, GPUs are being used for linear Algebra computation, signal-images processing, physical simulation and so on ...
http://www.csit.fsu.edu/~blanco/gpusc/gpusc_project.htm

The difference between the X1800 (and the ONLY difference), is that ATI looks be writing their own BrookGPU equivalant, whereas it was the scientific community (not Nvidia) that developed BrookGPU.

Here is a good website to check out for GPU accelerated applications:
http://www.gpgpu.org/

Here's a good article concerning the 7800GTX being used for non graphical purposes in the scientific and engineering community:
http://apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/5F125BA4653309A3CA25705A0005AD27

My original statement.

HDTVMan
Golden Member

Posts: 1272
Joined: 04/28/2005


http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8887
After reading that article on how the ATI Radeon 1000 series contain Physics code while comparing it to the nvidia card as being lackluster in this area makes me wonder.

Could the chip in the xbox 360 contain physics code? If so and the performance numbers are correct then there is no way nvidia can get to the drawing board to allow for physics to be implemented in the PS3 before launch. I know the multi core cpu of the PS3 can possibly help with physics however I dont believe its inherently designed with physics enhancements initially. Meaning it would have to compute it the same way a regular cpu would.

With the Nintendo Revolution having an ATI chip it makes me wonder how power the Revolution might just be. Have they announced the CPU yet? Man if they go with an AMD for the cpu then I would believe Nintendo got it right this time around.

 

[stelleg151]

Whoa im an idiot.

 

[HDTVMan]

Im killing this its out of control.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan
I should have realized on a message board of several thousand there are just a few who think they know better. As well when any thread reaches beyond 2-3 pages many will cut to the last page and assume what were talking about in the middle hasnt been covered.

We covered the discs. Nice to enter the conversation in the middle.

I bet a 20 years of experience plumber could post here on how to connect 2 pipes together and there would still be a few who say he is doing it wrong.

I am failing to answer questions on this any more. Im enjoying HD and so could you today. Instead I find it interesting there are those telling me what I have been doing for such a long time cant be done yet or isnt being done yet.

Alright look through all those qoutes that were quoted above, name a single one where they talk about video quality. Not a single one. the debate was about which "disc" type was better since the X-Box is eventually going to use HD-DVD, while the PS3 is going to use Blue Ray from the beginning. You seem dedicated to filling us with the knowledge of HD-Divx, and I thank you for it. but I think you are thinking to hard about your PPU GPU discussion because besides Skywalkers links that talk about quality from the manufacturer, we were (even if it was already talked about) discussing both the technical, performance, restrictions, and adoption of the two DISC techs.

 

[Topweasel]

HDTV man------ I thought that you might be smart person who makes to many assumptions what both the press and other posters are saying without really registering any of it. But now My opinion has gotten lower I am sorry that people are disagreeing with you or the topic has spread, but that his no reason to hide this topic, people deserve to be able to read this info under its original topic. That is what a froum is for. You little aterisk trick is meant for people who create a repost of double post and so they can edit the topic to say that a problem has been solved. I plead with you to re-instate the original topic name, whether you continue to post in here or not.

 

[CSammy]

HDTV Man,

Where exactly in the Tech report article does it state the Radeon X1800 "contains physics" code?".

Then you take that ignorance and apply it to the Xbox 360, going on to state it was too late for Nvidia to "implement" physics on the PS3. You truly do not comprehend this issue at all.

The Radeon X1800 doesn't contain "physics code". Software can be written to take advantage of its floating point power to compute physics, as is the case for Nvidia GPU's. Where on earth do you see this as "X1800 only?".

It's funny how the article began with a fluid dynamic demonstration by ATI (ocean waves), when more complex fluid dynamic simulations have been conducted prior:

This dissertation by Mark Harris of UNC Chapel Hill contains significant GPGPU-related content, including physically-based simulation of fluids, clouds, and chemical reaction diffusion on GPUs.
http://www.markmark.net/dissertation/harrisDissertation.pdf

High Performance Production-Quality Fluid Simulation via NVIDIA's QuadroFX
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/4449/frantic_GPUAccelerationofFluids.pdf

Open-Source Direct3D Fluid Simulation Library Released

Real-Time 3D Fluid Simulation on the GPU with Complex Obstacles
http://www.gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cg...tific%20Computing/index.html?_start=11

And the final laugh is, no X1800 is really in the hands of anyone in the scientific community. All you have is a tech demo exclusively by ATI and an "invitational" sponsored by ATI that just happens to showcase a tremendous lead for the X1800 (several times faster than a P4), while a GTX just happens to run half as fast as the P4 (even though the 6800 series, let alone a GTX, has been showcased to overshadow the P4 tremendously in broad based scientific applications).

 

[Topweasel]

/bump for interesting conversations.

 

[DeathReborn]

I'd like to see this ATI X1800 Physics code running entirely on GPU and without using a SINGLE MHz or MB of the card. AGEIA PhysX PPU will use 128MB of GDDR3 for nothing but Physics.

For example:

How will losing 128MB on a X1800XT affect performance? What if it eats say 200MHz of the Core in Real World use (not some ATI tech demo), are you willing to lose 200MHz & 128MB Memory for it? For all we know it could use something like 16MB & 25MHz for Physics which defeats the object really. You don't get things for free, something always loses out in the process, the question is what.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: DeathReborn
I'd like to see this ATI X1800 Physics code running entirely on GPU and without using a SINGLE MHz or MB of the card. AGEIA PhysX PPU will use 128MB of GDDR3 for nothing but Physics.

For example:

How will losing 128MB on a X1800XT affect performance? What if it eats say 200MHz of the Core in Real World use (not some ATI tech demo), are you willing to lose 200MHz & 128MB Memory for it? For all we know it could use something like 16MB & 25MHz for Physics which defeats the object really. You don't get things for free, something always loses out in the process, the question is what.

Well its not even like that, Its about a card being able to handle Physics like math very well so when forced to compute it its faster then the GTX. If they ever did do this they would just sell a X1600 or something like it as a PPU instead of a Video card.

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: DeathReborn
I'd like to see this ATI X1800 Physics code running entirely on GPU and without using a SINGLE MHz or MB of the card. AGEIA PhysX PPU will use 128MB of GDDR3 for nothing but Physics.

For example:

How will losing 128MB on a X1800XT affect performance? What if it eats say 200MHz of the Core in Real World use (not some ATI tech demo), are you willing to lose 200MHz & 128MB Memory for it? For all we know it could use something like 16MB & 25MHz for Physics which defeats the object really. You don't get things for free, something always loses out in the process, the question is what.

Well its not even like that, Its about a card being able to handle Physics like math very well so when forced to compute it its faster then the GTX. If they ever did do this they would just sell a X1600 or something like it as a PPU instead of a Video card.

Being able to process Physics Code on thin air would be an awesome sight. I'm not saying it can't do physics calculations, i'm just saying it does it at a cost in performance. I'm quit frankly amazed at how many people think it can do the Physics WITHOUT a performance hit.

Just for those that don't read what I say but instead skim it: IT CAN do basic Physics calculations but just like everything, you need an input, a conversion & a output. You lot think you get an input and an output WITHOUT any work.