I too am skeptical. Just reporting what I have seen. I would not buy an LG anyway but if this is true it may be a sign of things soon to come from other companies. Also the pdf seems to be a little old and not set in stone.
One of the reasons for the differences seen in claimed response times are down to the fact that different countries are using different panels while using the same model number.
When I was looking up the specs for the L1710B I found that the US, the UK and Sweden all claimed different response times. The explanation, given to me by LG in the UK was that the US used a LG panel of older manufacturer than the UK version. The UK had switched to the panel made by AU, the same one used in many other 17in 16ms models. Then to confuse matters even more, around April LG stopped using the AU panel and started shipping their own 16ms version.
At one point, in the UK at least, depending on where and when you bought it, your L1710B could have one of three completely different panels. The only way to know which one you have is to open the back of the case.
Of course, the other reason is that a lot of the marketing people responsible for putting out the information don't know what they are talking about.
When I was looking up the specs for the L1710B I found that the US, the UK and Sweden all claimed different response times. The explanation, given to me by LG in the UK was that the US used a LG panel of older manufacturer than the UK version. The UK had switched to the panel made by AU, the same one used in many other 17in 16ms models. Then to confuse matters even more, around April LG stopped using the AU panel and started shipping their own 16ms version.
At one point, in the UK at least, depending on where and when you bought it, your L1710B could have one of three completely different panels. The only way to know which one you have is to open the back of the case.
Of course, the other reason is that a lot of the marketing people responsible for putting out the information don't know what they are talking about.
Originally posted by: fredtam
Does this mean all newer panels will be 16ms or just certain countries?
It means if your monitor has the AU panel its gonna be 16ms response. It also means if your monitor has the NEW Lg screen which design is almost identical to the AU its also gonna be 16ms. But if your monitor is using the older LG design, it wont be 16ms, and im thinking now that the claimed 16ms/25ms MAX monitor which is what this thread is based on is actually using the old version of the LG design with the website stating 25ms. With that said it cant be using the same panel as the Hitachi cml, or nec 176, viewsonic vp17 e.t.c
Its basically bull crap.
AnthonyB, I have read your comments over at ars. And I think LG themselves are somewhat confused. And it's embarrasing that they sell the same monitor with different panels. Then they could at least call them something different, so we as customers could pick and choose.
How do you like the 1710B? I read that you had blur/ghosting in Q3. What I note here, is that the Hitachi 174 claims 12ms rise and 4ms fall, while the LG panel claims 2ms rise and 14ms fall. Anything additionally to say?
How do you like the 1710B? I read that you had blur/ghosting in Q3. What I note here, is that the Hitachi 174 claims 12ms rise and 4ms fall, while the LG panel claims 2ms rise and 14ms fall. Anything additionally to say?
Originally posted by: fredtam
Does this mean all newer panels will be 16ms or just certain countries?
LG in the UK said look at your country's LG website. The model listed there is the model you'll get. If the US site says their L1710Bs are 25ms, then they are 25ms not 16ms. Likewise, if the LG 2010P is 25ms in the US and 16ms the UK then the 16ms model is not out yet over there. It will be eventually but they have to sell the old stock first, I guess.
The best thing to do would be to phone them and nag them to find out what you're getting. It took quite a bit of work for me and I'm still not quite sure what I've got.
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I agree, it's confusing. I still don't know which panel I've got. And LG themselves don't seem to have a clue. When I first phoned LG to confirm the salespersons claim that their 16ms models used LG panels and not ones made by AU, marketing didn't know what I was talking about and didn't even know that 16ms was a hot topic. They had to confirm themselves with their Welsh factory. Mind you, they did also say that they was absolutely no 16ms panel larger than 17in in the pipeline at the moment, and then LG Sweden announce the 16ms L1910B and the 16ms L2010P.
Not really anything more to say at the moment. I'm still playing with the it and haven't finalised an opinion yet. I was going to follow-up on Ars after I'd let it settle in.
I don't know how that ms difference between panels affects things, but I have been wondering to. The thread over at Ars discusses it in more detail.
What I can say is, everything apart from gaming, and ignoring the fact that the screen is darker at the top than it is at the bottom, seems very, very good. The clarity and absence of smearing while scrolling through web pages, even ones with black backgrounds and white text is a good as perfect. Almost the same with text based apps like Word and Excel. Text , BTW, is that sharp and sparkly, it almost cuts you. I have to turn the brightness and contrast way down. I want Cleartype. DVDs are fine. Sometimes I think there's more blurring than on a CRT but when I switch and compare, the effects I noticed on the LCD are still there on the CRT. I just hadn't noticed them before. Colour, brightness, clarity are all what you would expect from an LCD. There is the problem of the top being darker than the bottom. This could be just the monitor or it could be a fault. Backlight possibly dislodged during it's two day journel to my door.
But back to gaming. There is a lot of ghosting while playing MDK2, Q3 and Serious Sam, the only FPS games I've tested it on so far. They are not playable for me on this screen, which is a bit odd considering it's supposed to be a gaming panel and it's so fast elsewhere. It could have something to do with my set-up (Celeron 1400 oc'd to 1560/Radeon 8500le), but I can't think why as the games are hardly stressing my system and it all looks fine on the CRT. I'll have to do some more tweaking and testing.
To be fair I am not an expert here. I am not experienced with LCDs, I don't play FPS that often and I've not had an opportunity to compare the L1710B side by side with other screens. What I can say is this - as far as I can recall it has less ghosting than all the other LCDs I've seen demonstating games but I've not seen the Hitachi or any others that use the AU panel. I did see a Sony with a 16ms panel - not sure of the model and it was about the same as the LG in Windows, there was no game demonstration.
Personal sensitivity comes into play as well. For example, a local dealer was demonstrating a Samsung with a fast FPS game. Not sure which game - some dragon flying through the air and swooping down on townspeople - or which Samsing panel, but I remember it had received a good gaming review. It could've been a 172T. It had very bad ghosting, as far as I could see. Far, far greater than on this L1710B, yet the customer who asked for the demo thought it was great. Me, I almost vomited.
I'd say - yes, shortlist the LG, but check out the others as well.
Whatever I say or anyone else says it's your eyes and only you can be the judge. Make sure you get a demo.
I agree, it's confusing. I still don't know which panel I've got. And LG themselves don't seem to have a clue. When I first phoned LG to confirm the salespersons claim that their 16ms models used LG panels and not ones made by AU, marketing didn't know what I was talking about and didn't even know that 16ms was a hot topic. They had to confirm themselves with their Welsh factory. Mind you, they did also say that they was absolutely no 16ms panel larger than 17in in the pipeline at the moment, and then LG Sweden announce the 16ms L1910B and the 16ms L2010P.
Not really anything more to say at the moment. I'm still playing with the it and haven't finalised an opinion yet. I was going to follow-up on Ars after I'd let it settle in.
I don't know how that ms difference between panels affects things, but I have been wondering to. The thread over at Ars discusses it in more detail.
What I can say is, everything apart from gaming, and ignoring the fact that the screen is darker at the top than it is at the bottom, seems very, very good. The clarity and absence of smearing while scrolling through web pages, even ones with black backgrounds and white text is a good as perfect. Almost the same with text based apps like Word and Excel. Text , BTW, is that sharp and sparkly, it almost cuts you. I have to turn the brightness and contrast way down. I want Cleartype. DVDs are fine. Sometimes I think there's more blurring than on a CRT but when I switch and compare, the effects I noticed on the LCD are still there on the CRT. I just hadn't noticed them before. Colour, brightness, clarity are all what you would expect from an LCD. There is the problem of the top being darker than the bottom. This could be just the monitor or it could be a fault. Backlight possibly dislodged during it's two day journel to my door.
But back to gaming. There is a lot of ghosting while playing MDK2, Q3 and Serious Sam, the only FPS games I've tested it on so far. They are not playable for me on this screen, which is a bit odd considering it's supposed to be a gaming panel and it's so fast elsewhere. It could have something to do with my set-up (Celeron 1400 oc'd to 1560/Radeon 8500le), but I can't think why as the games are hardly stressing my system and it all looks fine on the CRT. I'll have to do some more tweaking and testing.
To be fair I am not an expert here. I am not experienced with LCDs, I don't play FPS that often and I've not had an opportunity to compare the L1710B side by side with other screens. What I can say is this - as far as I can recall it has less ghosting than all the other LCDs I've seen demonstating games but I've not seen the Hitachi or any others that use the AU panel. I did see a Sony with a 16ms panel - not sure of the model and it was about the same as the LG in Windows, there was no game demonstration.
Personal sensitivity comes into play as well. For example, a local dealer was demonstrating a Samsung with a fast FPS game. Not sure which game - some dragon flying through the air and swooping down on townspeople - or which Samsing panel, but I remember it had received a good gaming review. It could've been a 172T. It had very bad ghosting, as far as I could see. Far, far greater than on this L1710B, yet the customer who asked for the demo thought it was great. Me, I almost vomited.
I'd say - yes, shortlist the LG, but check out the others as well.
Whatever I say or anyone else says it's your eyes and only you can be the judge. Make sure you get a demo.
Thank for the very detailed report.
The flying dragon must be 3dmark01, but that's almost embarrasing to say these days.
I agree that the whole blur/ghosting thing is very subjective. And the LG is on my shortlist, together with the NEC 1760NX, Viewsonic VP171, Hitachi CML174 and Samsung 172T. The demo thing is somewhat harder, as they are hard to find. It gets even harder trying to find some, that are not hooked up to 1 machine together with 20 others.
The flying dragon must be 3dmark01, but that's almost embarrasing to say these days.
I agree that the whole blur/ghosting thing is very subjective. And the LG is on my shortlist, together with the NEC 1760NX, Viewsonic VP171, Hitachi CML174 and Samsung 172T. The demo thing is somewhat harder, as they are hard to find. It gets even harder trying to find some, that are not hooked up to 1 machine together with 20 others.
You can also adjust brightness/contrast while using the dvi connection on the NEC and Viewsonic.
Do you think the color differences between the AUO and LG matter? The Hitachi is supposed to show more than 262k colors, according to a review.
The Viewsonic also comes bundled with the dvi cable. IMO all dvi monitors should come bundled with a dvi cable.
I really have no need for the usb hub.
You are not swedish are you? I saw (Ars thread) that you called both LG Sweden and Aurora. If you are swedish, are there any places with lots of monitors to demo in southern Sweden?
Do you think the color differences between the AUO and LG matter? The Hitachi is supposed to show more than 262k colors, according to a review.
The Viewsonic also comes bundled with the dvi cable. IMO all dvi monitors should come bundled with a dvi cable.
I really have no need for the usb hub.
You are not swedish are you? I saw (Ars thread) that you called both LG Sweden and Aurora. If you are swedish, are there any places with lots of monitors to demo in southern Sweden?
I heard that about the NEC but didn't know the Viewsonic could also do it. I chose the LG over the Hitachi and the NEC because the NEC was £50.00 dearer and didn't come with a DVI cable, and on the Hitachi all OSD functions disappear when you use the DVI connection.
I've only recently switched to 32bit after years of 16bit so colour wasn't a biggie for me.
Are there colour differences between the two panels? I didn't know that. They both claim 16m colours. LG claim their panel is 8bit from the start whereas Hitachi's I believe is 6bit interpolated to a higher figure (I'm on shaky ground here - trying to remember what I've read. Could someone who really knows chip in?). Whether the differences between the technologies can be seen is another story. Anyone looked into this?
My LG looks fine on DVD. Colours are bright and rich, better than on DVD on the TV. Maybe there's not a huge amount of dynamic range but that's LCDs in general, isn't it? Then again, I'm not exactly picky here.
Absolutely.
Me neither.
No, I'm not Swedish. I lived there for a number of years a while back and can still speak a little Swedish when the need arises. As for demos - in the UK I found that the John Lewis department store was a pretty good place to check out a few models. There's a whole wall of LCDs all connected up to individual PCs. Occasionally one PC is feeding two monitors but it's easy to get an assistant to direct connect it.
Maybe a large department store would be a good bet for you too.
The specs for the panel at AUOs site says 262k. I have read a few reviews, where they said that the Hitachi did show more than 262k colors. I'm also on shaky ground here, probably doesn't matter.
IIRC no LCD panel can't display 16.7m colours on it's own. There's always some jiggery-pokery going on to get it up to full spec (again - if there is someone out there who really knows about this, please chip in).
Probably does make a difference if you are into photoshop.
All of us monitor folk seem to be from Sweeden/Norway huh? I saw this back a little while but I didnt say anything just because their stats were not consistant with the US version of the monitor.
I'm just going to address a little of everything here since this thread has it all.
First of all, those monitors are not 16ms or at least the US reps at LG.Philips tell me they are not.
This has been a totally unusual rumor that has been going around the last few months. You can change the brightness, contrast, etc on all of these monitors with DVI. Some let you do it on the OSD, some make you use hardware.
JZilla is correct. They use some loopy marchitecture numbers to claim that "64 bit" displays render 262,000 colors as 16.7M. I dont know, its kind of a useless stat.
Hope that helps a little,
Kristopher
I'm just going to address a little of everything here since this thread has it all.
First of all, those monitors are not 16ms or at least the US reps at LG.Philips tell me they are not.
This has been a totally unusual rumor that has been going around the last few months. You can change the brightness, contrast, etc on all of these monitors with DVI. Some let you do it on the OSD, some make you use hardware.
JZilla is correct. They use some loopy marchitecture numbers to claim that "64 bit" displays render 262,000 colors as 16.7M. I dont know, its kind of a useless stat.
Hope that helps a little,
Kristopher
So the 19" and 20" is not 16ms? Just to be sure we are talking about the same.
Are you norwegian then?
Swedes have a great need to be at the forefront of any new technology. They like to be first with the new toys. They were the first that gave us stonewashed Levis, I believe.
Certainly available in Sweden, it would seem. I spoke to the rep and so did an Ars user named CADdie (another Swede). He's just ordered one. May have to wait a bit, mind. Have a look: Link
I asked a number of manufacturers - LG, NEC, Dell, and Acer and all of them said that you lose control over these functions on the DVI connection. I later read on Ars that it was available in hardware on the LG. They need to get their information right.
I'm fairly norwegian, I know a little sveedish though, too.
I really dont think its a 16ms LCD. I've been following the Ars thread although I kind of refrain from posting on other forums.
This thing about hte DVI connection has got me baffled. I will address more attention to it in my next review.
Kristopher
I really dont think its a 16ms LCD. I've been following the Ars thread although I kind of refrain from posting on other forums.
This thing about hte DVI connection has got me baffled. I will address more attention to it in my next review.
Kristopher
Hi:
I will be speaking with the Vice President of Marketing for LG.Philips tommorow (again). I will set this 16ms thing straight.
Cheers,
Kristopher
I will be speaking with the Vice President of Marketing for LG.Philips tommorow (again). I will set this 16ms thing straight.
Cheers,
Kristopher
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