...

[Zebo]

Intel fanboys are crying so lets let this one drop.

Is 50-60% slower than cheapest X2 in many tests


Globally speaking it's 30% slower. You do the math. Cheap 939 mobo plus DDR plus X2 will come out ahead in both price/performance and obviously overall performance. That's a rare combo. Usually the performance leader is justified in charging much much more making the cheap chip more attractive. Not here.

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/pentiumd-820/index.x?pg=1

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Is 50-60% slower than cheapest X2 in many tests


Globally speaking it's 30% slower. You do the math. Cheap 939 mobo plus DDR plus X2 will come out ahead in both price/performance and obviously overall performance.

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/pentiumd-820/index.x?pg=1

:thumbsup:

but i'll reserve judgment on the price/performance until AT does a rig price guide on them

 

[Zebo]

Well unless Intel gets thier pentium D motherboards under $255 it's crazy to even think about one of those.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Well unless Intel gets thier pentium D motherboards under $255 it's crazy to even think about one of those.

i guess so...you've got me wanting an X2 now damn you Zebo :|

oh well, in all reality i can't justify upgrading my 2.1/2.2 Ghz (depending on how hot i want it )AXp, A7V8X, 1Gb RAM and 9800 pro unless i get new monitors that support higher than 1280 res...since all i'd do with extra power is play games at higher res

 

[Zebo]

Buy what you need..there nothing "wrong" perse about your setup ...jk it's top 10% in world... average to good for anandtech.

 

[Duvie]

And think you can buy one (actually preorder for 6/25/05) at Dell where they will neuter it even more by running PC4200 DDR2.....I am sure this cheapo Dimension 9100 system would have benched another 5-10% slower then what was tested in most of the reviews....

Honestly this is the first time I can remember in a long time where the lowest products and the highest products of each new line is this one sided...The low end product beats their high end...INtel introduces 4 and AMD introduces 4.....



I mean I dont care if it is 290 dollar cheaper it is fvcking 30-60% slower depending on the test you look at....That sucks and for that 50% of the time when I use single threaded apps I wil have a cpu slower then my last 3 pentium 4 cpus dating back 2 years...Yeah no thanks!!!

We knew the 820 was a slug so no surprise.....

I hope AMD comes out with some 2ghz dual core and gets them in the 300-400 range cause that would be evenmore embarassing when it still takes out the 840's.....

 

[Zebo]

LOL The only advantage is clocking it to high heaven IMO. I mean it's horrible at stock.. Heck even the 840 is horrible.. 50-15% slower than cheapest X2.

 

[jpeyton]

Who would have thought, a $240 Pentium D 820 got beat by a $540 Athlon 64 X2 4200+...

 

[xenolith]

Stop... stop... stop it now! Your screwing up my upgrade path...

lol

 

[Appledrop]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Who would have thought, a $240 Pentium D 820 got beat by a $540 Athlon 64 X2 4200+...

 

[imported_caater]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Well unless Intel gets thier pentium D motherboards under $255 it's crazy to even think about one of those.

actually 945 mobos will be as cheap as 865 / 915 ones at their introduction.
once the availability is good, then the prices will come down to levels as the 915
boards are at the moment..
955 chipset differs only in supporting ECC ram, 8GB ram instead of 4GB, supporting
XE processors and some minor memory tweaks.

but the techreports review.. it's good reading but IMO they had too great focus on
synthetic tests and 640x480 gaming...

however i fail to see how the 820 has worse price-to-perfomance ratio than 4200+..
with 840 (not xe) vs 4200+, it's clear - 840 is only marginally cheaper, but gets a
beating from 4200+ in almost everything..

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Who would have thought, a $240 Pentium D 820 got beat by a $540 Athlon 64 X2 4200+...

LOL no, crushed!.

But if it's so self evident..Whys $540 X2 beat the $1000 Pentium D EE 90% of the time. hmm hehe


Anyway right now the X2 leads price/perforamnce too with expesive mobos which put the price of mobo and CPU up to X2 levels.

We'll see if these sub$100 board come.. even then I'm thinking the X2 will have superior price/perfmance characteristics. 30% is a lot to give up!! Back to athlon XP days in single threads.

 

[Zebo]

however i fail to see how the 820 has worse price-to-perfomance ratio than 4200+..

You do?

OK

4200 setup
-------------
4200 $520
Asus Nf4 $120
PC 3200 $80
total = $720


820 setup
---------
820 $240
Asus 955X $255
PC2-4200 $100
total = $595

The 820 setup is only 18% less money but performs 30% worse. Understand?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Zebo

however i fail to see how the 820 has worse price-to-perfomance ratio than 4200+..

You do?

OK

4200 setup
-------------
4200 $520
Asus Nf4 $120
PC 3200 $80
total = $720


820 setup
---------
820 $240
Asus 955X $255
PC2-4200 $100
total = $595

The 820 setup is only 18% less money but performs 30% worse. Understand?

Who is going to pair the lowest-end Pentium D with the highest end 955X motherboard? Give me a break. Cheap 945X motherboards will come, just like cheap 915 motherboards did. And as I pointed out earlier in another thread, you can buy 1GB Infineon PC2-4200 for an everyday price of $76 shipped.

A good 945X board will cost roughly the same as a good NF4 Ultra board...and ram prices for DDR and DDR2 are about equal.

Pentium D 820 $240
945X Mobo $120
1GB DDR2 533MHz $80
Total: $440

Athlon 64 X2 4200+ $540
NF4 Ultra Mobo $120
1GB DDR 400MHz $80
Total: $740

The cost difference is more like 40% if you're using common sense about component costs. So 30% lower performance for 40% lower cost...and now we see why The Tech Report said the Pentium D will dominate the mid-range PC market even though the X2 performs better.

 

[Zebo]

Good lord you're gonna cripple it way more than 30% with that crap ram. you might a well assume it'll be 40% slower too. TR used 3-2-2 which costs hundreds and is 30% slower than cheap X2. your using what 4-4-4 or 5-5-5!!!

Then you're assuming a lot. I seriously doubt any ASUS board which will hold D's will cost $120. oR any board will cost $120 that houses D. Right now all we got to work with is what's out, not some mythical prices you pulled from who knows where.

Besides you can get cheap 939 board for $80 right now.

Finnaly you don't even wanna start OCing. The X2 has a PRD multiplier if 1.65:1 meaning to match a 3000Mhz X2 you need a 5000Mhz D, no one even on phase change has done that!!! People have done 3000mhz on air with X2's

The Tech Report said the Pentium D will dominate the mid-range PC market even though the X2 performs better.

They must like 3 yrs old lackluster performance at a price premium.

 

[imported_DaveA]

anyone see the power consumption at load in the techreport review? its crazy.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: DaveA
anyone see the power consumption at load in the techreport review? its crazy.

Heat, power, and noise is huge on these pentium D's. Discusting they rip you off after the fact too. Costs me $4.50 a month more to run a slower pentium D.

 

[jpeyton]

Good lord you're gonna cripple it way more than 30% with that crap ram. you might a well assume it'll be 40% slower too. TR used 3-2-2 which costs hundreds and is 30% slower than cheap X2. your using what 4-4-4 or 5-5-5!!!

My $80 DDR2 is 4-4-4-12, but runs fine at 3-3-3-8...although you're right, it's still not as fast at the expensive 3-2-2-8 Corsair DDR2. Likewise your $80 RAM is probably 2.5-3-3-5, and not 2-2-2-5 like the expensive Corsair DDR used in the review. If we both wanted to use similar low latency RAM, our memory costs would double, but the cost difference is still negligible.

The difference in RAM latency will make it slower, but certainly not 10% slower as your asinine comment stated.

Then you're assuming a lot. I seriously doubt any ASUS board which will hold D's will cost $120. oR any board will cost $120 that houses D.

It shouldn't be that hard to understand. 955X is replacing 925X, and 945X is replacing 915X. The new chipset will occupy the replaced chipset's market segment and price range. You do know how the market works, right? Just checkin...

Right now all we got to work with is what's out, not some mythical prices you pulled from who knows where.

Exactly. So as soon as you point me to somebody who has X2s in stock, I'll show you some cheap 945X motherboards. Until then, we're both blowing smoke up our collective asses.

Finnaly you don't even wanna start OCing. The X2 has a PRD multiplier if 1.65:1 meaning to match a 3000Mhz X2 you need a 5000Mhz D, no one even on phase change has done that!!! People have done 3000mhz on air with X2's

That is great news for the 1% of worldwide PC users who overclock their computers. I'm sure AMD and their accountants are jumping for joy knowing they've got the overclockers market locked up.

They must like 3 yrs old lackluster performance at a price premium.

You say price premium. I say a 40% cost savings. Nobody is right until both our products hit the store shelves.

And even if the cost savings isn't as high as 40% for end-users, it's probably higher than 40% for OEMs.

 

[Zebo]

Dude I can get $80 ram that runs 2-2-2 up to 250Mhz.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Dude I can get $80 ram that runs 2-2-2 up to 250Mhz.

Sweet, link?

EDIT: NM, you're probably talking about the TwinMOS II from Newegg. Yeah that stuff is a great deal; just make sure you have an DFI UT for it (or a booster).

 

[Zebo]

Until then, we're both blowing smoke up our collective asses.

You are I'm not. I am using MSRP's or products that are out. You envisoned some mythical board price not me.

Unless you think these companies are lying on thier processor prices I think it's fair to use those numbers. you do too or you would'nt have ran with those CPU MSRPs in your pricing scheme.

I also think it's fair to use memory that's out there right now and boards out there right now. You wish to create a price that's never been annouced for products never seen before. You also wish to ignore cheap 939 boards which are out.


Hehe I'm gonna play Jpayton..
"Never has AMD sold processors for MSRP, always heavily discounts thier parts. Expect the 4200 to sell for $200. With DDR ram becoming extinct you can buy some in FS forums for $40 prolly from an intel user who moved on. Next you can pick up NF4 boards for $60 from PCchips."

So really you could get a AMD set for 50% less money that performs 30% better.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Until then, we're both blowing smoke up our collective asses.

You are I'm not. I am using MSRP's or products that are out. You envisoned some mythical board price not me.

Unless you think these companies are lying on thier processor prices I think it's fair to use those numbers. you do too or you would'nt have ran with those CPU MSRPs in your pricing scheme.

I also think it's fair to use memory that's out there right now and boards out there right now. You wish to create a price that's never been annouced for products never seen before. You also wish to ignore cheap 939 boards which are out.

I'm not ignoring cheap Socket 939 boards...I'm just using common sense, which seems to be lacking around here.

So what if there are $80 939 boards...who is stupid enough to pair a $500+ CPU with a $80 cheapie motherboard?

Likewise, who is stupid enough to pair a $240 CPU with a $250 motherboard? Did you and Duvie sit in the corner together during elementary school?

I do believe we'll see sub-$150 945X boards quite soon, and if I can't prove you wrong for a few more weeks, so be it. I'll keep the threads bookmarked so I can resurrect them later. You keep beating the same drum...what are you going to do when 945X does arrive cheaply?

Intel's strategy is pretty transparent; they want their dual-core solution introduced on a larger scale than AMD. If anything, AMDs decision to keep the quantities lower and prices higher on their dual-core parts will make them subject to more price gouging, because the X2s will undoubtedly be popular. FX55 prices on Newegg fluctuated as much as $200 during some months because of demand and shortages.

Keep blowing that smoke son. It may be 30% slower, but it's also 40% cheaper.

 

[Zebo]

who is stupid enough to pair a $500+ CPU with a $80 cheapie motherboard?

Me. The Epox did get editors choice some places too. Cheap and good is great. I take that as a compliment coming from you BTW. My Cheap $80 board runs rings around guys who bought FX's and high end 3500/3800s most of the time too, because I know what I'm doing unlike you.. I will also pair it with a $580 CPU and beat any phase changed EE DD 955x thousands of dollars later crap out there.

Keep blowing that smoke son. It may be 30% slower, but it's also 40% cheaper.

Keep making up synthetic numbers, works well for Intel benchmarks and thier fans.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Zebo

who is stupid enough to pair a $500+ CPU with a $80 cheapie motherboard?

Me. The Epox did get editors choice some places too. Cheap and good is great. I take that as a compliment coming from you BTW. My Cheap $80 board runs rings around guys who bought FX's and high end 3500/3800s most of the time too, because I know what I'm doing unlike you.. I will also pair it with a $580 CPU and beat any phase changed EE DD 955x thousands of dollars later crap out there.

Keep blowing that smoke son. It may be 30% slower, but it's also 40% cheaper.

Keep making up synthetic numbers, works well for Intel and thier fans.

DFI Ultra-D spanks your Epox cheapie 939. You recommended cheap $80 TwinMOS UTT earlier, but how exactly are you going to run those at 2-2-2-5 with a max VDIMM of 2.8V on your Epox? I thought you "know what you're doing"?

And sorry, I don't really get off on the thought of how much better my overclocked computer's price/performance ratio is compared to some newbies stock FX55. Never needed the ego boost.

Okay Zebo, what is YOUR educated guess for the price of a 945X motherboard? Is it also going to be $250 like the 955X motherboards? Lower? Higher? I'm sure the Elite Member can share some of his knowledge with the rest of us.

EDIT: According to Intel, 1000-unit prices for the outgoing 915P chipset are $37/ea, and 1000-unit prices for the incoming 945P chipset are $38/ea. A whopping $1 difference. Sorry Zebo.

 

[imported_caater]

Originally posted by: Zebo
People have done 3000mhz on air with X2's

interesting.. any URL?

a64 X2 4800+ superpi1M @3006mhz stable and pcmark04, cinebench, superpi8M @ 2950
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62525

though cooling is vapo LS, not on air.

so it appears that with that kind of cooling, 2.8ghz 24/7 speed is maybe reasonable.
Unless you'll get your cpu for superpi 1M or cinebench runs..

pent D is all different story.. fugger benched his @ 4.9ghz but he had triple stage cascade running at ~-100C.. can imagine the power requirement of 4.9ghz pent D

there are some overclocks with weaker cooling (machII gt) here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61605

so according to these tests, i think it's same to assume that pent D 24/7 limit with
LS/machII phasechange would be ~4.2ghz..

so the 2.8 X2 eats pent D when overclocked, but not sure how much.

But i'm waiting for those X2 3ghz on air screenies and results..