15 States Expand Right to Shoot in Self-Defense

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Amused
Because the man would not leave his property. Your property and rights do not end at your door, they end at your property line.

Sorry, still not a good reason to involve a gun. This is the sort of mentality that results in situations like this and can come to no good end the vast majority of the time.

Oh yes, because, as you know, I've killed dozens of people on my front door step. :roll:

Sorry, but you're wrong. Allen had every right to defend himself AND his property. He should not be made afraid to open his front door at will.

Proof positive that whne you go to confront someone verbally make sure you are packing yourself for self defense, you never know if some crazy old fsck is going to pull a gun and shoot your ass.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Thraxen

But you are ignoring that fact that he closed the door, went inside, got the gun, and re-opened the door. If were afraid of being punched, why open the door?

Its the mans home: he shouldn't have to cower in his own home... besides he already told the young man to leave. this is speculation, but after telling the young man about the firearm and after closing the door on the young man. The older man probably did not expect the young man to still be there.

However, just by being at the door, the young man has escalated the situation. He has proven either he is crazy (knows about the gun), or that he is willing to do harm -- else why else is he there... makes no sense. The old man has to work with those expectations for his safety...

-Eleison

It's also just as likely that the old man was fscking nuts and a real asshole.

Well, after a full investigation, the cops believed the old man. I wonder if the evidence shows that Rosenbloom was indeed over the threshold when shot. Blood spatter will show these things, you know.

 

[Thraxen]

Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well then, we'll outlaw being able to use deadly force INSIDE your home too. Because, of course, you could invite them over for tea and just shoot them.

:roll:

Your (il)logic makes it illegal to EVER defend yourself.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well that's kind of cool, it means you can off your neighbor and get away with it! Maybe this will lead to everybody packing a piece just like they did in the old west. Yeehaw!

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

That's why we have these things called "Police" to do something called "investigating" to find out if the claims are true or not.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Amused
This was investigated by the police and Allen was cleared. Obviously there was enough evidence to suggest his story was more truthful than Rosenbloom's

This is what I am most afraid of - it makes it so much easier for someone to kill another and get away with it. If he had pulled the trigger in a different state - say Maine would he have spent the rest of his life in jail. Probably. Justifiably so - hard to say. If he closed the door and his neighbour kicked it in, then yes it was a justifiable shooting. If he closed the door and his neighbour walked home, then no it was not justifiable. I think this law lowers the bar too much.

I agree with where the law is trying to go, but I don't think it is anywhere close to getting there.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Amused
Well then, we'll outlaw being able to use deadly force INSIDE your home too. Because, of course, you could invite them over for tea and just shoot them.

:roll:

Your logic makes it illegal to EVER defend yourself.

Inside your home is different, but I have yet to see anything beyond claims that they guy actually made a move toward the old man. And I still see no reason to go get the gun after the man had the door closed. Nothing really excuses that, IMO.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The only problem with these laws is that a lot of assholes are going to use them as an excuse to commit murder. Oh well, we need the prison space for real criminals like those who smoke pot and snort coke.

Only on your own property. What was the other person doing there in the first place?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: Amused
Well then, we'll outlaw being able to use deadly force INSIDE your home too. Because, of course, you could invite them over for tea and just shoot them.

:roll:

Your logic makes it illegal to EVER defend yourself.

Inside your home is different, but I have yet to see anything beyond claims that they guy actually made a move toward the old man. And I still see no reason to go get the gun after the man had the door closed. Nothing really excuses that, IMO.

Well then, your opinion is that of someone who does not believe they have a right to protect, and control their property.

At any rate, if they can "lie" about what happened on the doorstep thay can just as easily "lie" about what happens inside the home. That's the logical end to your argument.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well that's kind of cool, it means you can off your neighbor and get away with it! Maybe this will lead to everybody packing a piece just like they did in the old west. Yeehaw!

I can only hope that one day a majority of people will be carrying firearms. I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that I don't have that crime rates would bottom out. Right now in TN there is around a 10% chance that your going to get shot if you rob/assault someone. So 9 out of 10 are good targets. If that number were 60% or 70% the target base goes down quite a bit.

But you just keep relying on the police Red Dawn, I'm sure they will be more than happy to call the coroner on your behalf.

 

[Nebor]

The guy should have left when the old man said "I'm getting my gun." By illegally staying on the old man's property he accepted the consequences, whatever they might be.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well that's kind of cool, it means you can off your neighbor and get away with it! Maybe this will lead to everybody packing a piece just like they did in the old west. Yeehaw!

Red, many states have had these laws for years already.

Every doom and gloom prediction by the blithering pussies at handgun control and the rest of the gun control movement have been proven wrong. Just as this will be.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The only problem with these laws is that a lot of assholes are going to use them as an excuse to commit murder. Oh well, we need the prison space for real criminals like those who smoke pot and snort coke.

Only on your own property. What was the other person doing there in the first place?

He was there to discuss a disagreement they were having.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well that's kind of cool, it means you can off your neighbor and get away with it! Maybe this will lead to everybody packing a piece just like they did in the old west. Yeehaw!

Red, many states have had these laws for years already.

Every doom and gloom prediction by the blithering pussies at handgun control and the rest of the gun control movement have been proven wrong. Just as this will be.

For the record... whether your comment was directed at me or not, I own 5 guns... two of which are handguns. I'm just not going to pull them out because a neighbor is yelling at me.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The only problem with these laws is that a lot of assholes are going to use them as an excuse to commit murder. Oh well, we need the prison space for real criminals like those who smoke pot and snort coke.

Only on your own property. What was the other person doing there in the first place?

Selling Girl Scout Cookies, collecting for the Newspaper, trying to convert Sinners into Mormons, delivering the Mail, dropping off a package, singing Christmas Carols, bringing your mother home from a hot date,etc...

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Unheard
But you just keep relying on the police Red Dawn, I'm sure they will be more than happy to call the coroner on your behalf.

Unheard, there are people who steal for various reasons. I venture to say that some do it because they feel they have to. Of these a percentage of them would continue to do so even if everyone carried a weapon.

As such, these criminals would themselves feel compelled to carry to protect themselves. This may or may not cause fewer shootings, it is hard to say.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Unheard

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well that's kind of cool, it means you can off your neighbor and get away with it! Maybe this will lead to everybody packing a piece just like they did in the old west. Yeehaw!

I can only hope that one day a majority of people will be carrying firearms. I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that I don't have that crime rates would bottom out. Right now in TN there is around a 10% chance that your going to get shot if you rob/assault someone. So 9 out of 10 are good targets. If that number were 60% or 70% the target base goes down quite a bit.

But you just keep relying on the police Red Dawn, I'm sure they will be more than happy to call the coroner on your behalf.

No I want to be able to shoot your ass if you ever come to my house and annoy me!

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well that's kind of cool, it means you can off your neighbor and get away with it! Maybe this will lead to everybody packing a piece just like they did in the old west. Yeehaw!

Red, many states have had these laws for years already.

Every doom and gloom prediction by the blithering pussies at handgun control and the rest of the gun control movement have been proven wrong. Just as this will be.

Heh...don't forget that the states/districts with the most restrictive gun control laws are also the ones with the most gun crimes (see Washington DC).

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Unheard
But you just keep relying on the police Red Dawn, I'm sure they will be more than happy to call the coroner on your behalf.

Unheard, there are people who steal for various reasons. I venture to say that some do it because they feel they have to. Of these a percentage of them would continue to do so even if everyone carried a weapon.

As such, these criminals would themselves feel compelled to carry to protect themselves. This may or may not cause fewer shootings, it is hard to say.

One should expect these people to already be carrying. They don't arm up to protect themselves from me/you, the arm up to give themselves the upper hand over me/you. I want to know that if (and I pray that that it never does) the time comes where I am in a situation of being robbed/assaulted, that I am on an equal playing field and have the right to end the situation using force w/o reprecussions.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Unheard

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing... if you let something like this slide then that means you could shoot just about anyone on your doorstep. Just claim they threatened to beat you up and your off scott free. Who cares if they had a gun or any sort of deadly intent? Those are just annoying and useless details.

Well that's kind of cool, it means you can off your neighbor and get away with it! Maybe this will lead to everybody packing a piece just like they did in the old west. Yeehaw!

I can only hope that one day a majority of people will be carrying firearms. I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that I don't have that crime rates would bottom out. Right now in TN there is around a 10% chance that your going to get shot if you rob/assault someone. So 9 out of 10 are good targets. If that number were 60% or 70% the target base goes down quite a bit.

But you just keep relying on the police Red Dawn, I'm sure they will be more than happy to call the coroner on your behalf.

No I want to be able to shoot your ass if you ever come to my house and annoy me!

*note to self, don't bring fruit cake to red dawn for christmas this year*

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Unheard
...that I am on an equal playing field.

But you never will be because you would never use the gun to rob someone. Therefore, they will always have the jump on you and the only case where you could use your weapon is when the assailant makes a mistake or isn't carrying a gun.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The only problem with these laws is that a lot of assholes are going to use them as an excuse to commit murder. Oh well, we need the prison space for real criminals like those who smoke pot and snort coke.

Only on your own property. What was the other person doing there in the first place?

Selling Girl Scout Cookies, collecting for the Newspaper, trying to convert Sinners into Mormons, delivering the Mail, dropping off a package, singing Christmas Carols, bringing your mother home from a hot date,etc...

Most of those are solicited with the owner's knowledge. If someone wants to kill you, maybe you should stay off their property.

 

[Unheard]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Unheard
...that I am on an equal playing field.

But you never will be because you would never use the gun to rob someone. Therefore, they will always have the jump on you and the only case where you could use your weapon is when the assailant makes a mistake or isn't carrying a gun.

It's convienent that my .380 (cocked and locked) goes in the same pocket as my wallet. So unless they shoot me outright, they better hope I choose my wallet.

 

[Geekbabe]

defense of home has always been okay here in MA, particularly at night.