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120hz does it matter for gaming on an LCD?

T

Thetech

Senior member

Hi all,

I plan on using a 1080p LCD TV as a Computer monitor and TV.

I'll also be playing computer games on it and using it with my Wii.
The one thing I've been unable to figure out is does 120hz make a difference for my needs?

I thank you all for any advice offered.
 
This is a great question and one I have pondered on for a while. My 30" LCD/TV I use for gaming has a max refresh of 60hz. It has been my understanding that when I play and in my Nvidia settings I enable 'synch with monitor" my games kinda cap at 60 frames a sec.

I know there are very good, very expensive computer monitors that might have higher max refresh rates... and hence if I am understanding correctly, would a newer LCD HDTV that is 120hz actually be better for playing games if you've got a killer video card?

Or am I totally confusing the 120hz thing when applied to HDTV?

Sorry wish I could answer your question rather than being another person asking for advice.

 
Originally posted by: sdifox
I don't think so, the 120hz is an internal process. IT's not like you can feed it 120hz signal.
Click to expand...
This. Plus, all those motion interpolation processes introduce lag.
 
Will I be missing anything by not having it as far as TV and movie watching goes? Or is 120hz more of a "marketing" thing?
 
120hz works. Dunno why the arguement about 'input' signals. It convert into 120Hz. Makes movies smoother (less motion blurr).
Some like it, Some hate it. Currently more is needed to allieviated the motion blur.
 
Originally posted by: shempf
120hz works. Dunno why the arguement about 'input' signals. It convert into 120Hz. Makes movies smoother (less motion blurr).
Some like it, Some hate it. Currently more is needed to allieviated the motion blur.
Click to expand...

did you even understand the technology? 120hz was brought in to eliminate Telecine judder. Your computer game is not doing Telecine, it is 60Hz. What is 120Hz going to do for you?
 
ahh. Knew there was something I must be missing. I guess I shouldn't speak as much regarding 'gaming'.
*foot in mouth
 
Originally posted by: Thetech
Will I be missing anything by not having it as far as TV and movie watching goes? Or is 120hz more of a "marketing" thing?
Click to expand...

It's more of a gimmick rather than marketing thing. It does work, how well depends on implementation. You do add lag with the interpolation.

Won't matter for Wii, maybe better for film if your player is not doing proper reverse intercine already. In your case, if you are watching movies fed from your computer, 120Hz is not doing anything (positive) for ya.
 
The only thing 120hz is good for is displaying 24hz sources without dropping or inserting frames. Everything else is a gimmick, and usually an annoying one.
 
Originally posted by: erwos
The only thing 120hz is good for is displaying 24hz sources without dropping or inserting frames. Everything else is a gimmick, and usually an annoying one.
Click to expand...

Well the only other thing with 120Hz that is a valid selling point, is the ability to function with the newest 3D glasses/technologies.
120Hz means it can display 60 FPS for each eye, without causing problems with visual interpretation since 60 FPS provides for a smooth image for each eye.

I'm interested in this, but 120Hz displays, at 22", cost around $400 at the moment, ridiculous when they are TN panels and the only improvement is 120Hz versus 60Hz.
That, and then the 3D shutter glasses from nVidia go for about $200 right now. I've thought about getting a 120Hz monitor now, and down the road picking up the glasses.
But not sure on that thought yet. Haven't been able to try the glasses yet, and that is something I refuse to buy into without seeing it in action first. I've looked at a 3D-capable monitor running a 3D demo, but it was through cheap throw-away polarized glasses, similar to the red/blue freebie glasses but polarized film instead of red/blue.
It looked like shit. But I've got to imagine, that with the real glasses not being cheap, that it is a product of it being thin flexible film, not hard plastic coated plastic made to likely perfection.

If the 3D effect looks great, and can actually create a feeling of very real depth, I'd be very interested. But with a limited number of games supporting it, and sometimes needing to drop the visual quality of a game, like turning off certain graphical features, in order to improve the appearance of accurate depth, I'm not quite ready to spend that kind of money.
 
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: erwos
The only thing 120hz is good for is displaying 24hz sources without dropping or inserting frames. Everything else is a gimmick, and usually an annoying one.
Click to expand...

Well the only other thing with 120Hz that is a valid selling point, is the ability to function with the newest 3D glasses/technologies.
120Hz means it can display 60 FPS for each eye, without causing problems with visual interpretation since 60 FPS provides for a smooth image for each eye.

I'm interested in this, but 120Hz displays, at 22", cost around $400 at the moment, ridiculous when they are TN panels and the only improvement is 120Hz versus 60Hz.
That, and then the 3D shutter glasses from nVidia go for about $200 right now. I've thought about getting a 120Hz monitor now, and down the road picking up the glasses.
But not sure on that thought yet. Haven't been able to try the glasses yet, and that is something I refuse to buy into without seeing it in action first. I've looked at a 3D-capable monitor running a 3D demo, but it was through cheap throw-away polarized glasses, similar to the red/blue freebie glasses but polarized film instead of red/blue.
It looked like shit. But I've got to imagine, that with the real glasses not being cheap, that it is a product of it being thin flexible film, not hard plastic coated plastic made to likely perfection.

If the 3D effect looks great, and can actually create a feeling of very real depth, I'd be very interested. But with a limited number of games supporting it, and sometimes needing to drop the visual quality of a game, like turning off certain graphical features, in order to improve the appearance of accurate depth, I'm not quite ready to spend that kind of money.
Click to expand...

From what I read for that you would need a TRUE 120hz monitor, one that can be driven at 120hz. Kind of like with how you could use high refresh rates with CRT monitors.

Based on what I've read and what's discussed here LCD Tv's that have 120Hz don't take 120hz from an input device I.E. a computers video card can't be set to 120Hz while connected to a 120Hz T.V.

 
Originally posted by: Thetech
So would most of you consider this Video to be incorrect?
The video in question is about 60hz vs. 120hz.
Click to expand...
I don't consider it "wrong", but creating interpolated frames is a distracting gimmick, not a real feature.

As for 3D, you've got to have certain DLPs for that, IIRC. Any random 120hz LCD isn't going to cut it.
 
Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: Thetech
So would most of you consider this Video to be incorrect?
The video in question is about 60hz vs. 120hz.
Click to expand...
I don't consider it "wrong", but creating interpolated frames is a distracting gimmick, not a real feature.

As for 3D, you've got to have certain DLPs for that, IIRC. Any random 120hz LCD isn't going to cut it.
Click to expand...

But the current wave of 120Hz computer monitors ARE going to cut it, because they are being made to be driven with compatible video cards, and have polarized shutter frames connected as well. It all works... just the implementation in games, done properly so that it looks great, isn't quite ready.
 
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: Thetech
Will I be missing anything by not having it as far as TV and movie watching goes? Or is 120hz more of a "marketing" thing?
Click to expand...

It's more of a gimmick rather than marketing thing. It does work, how well depends on implementation. You do add lag with the interpolation.

Won't matter for Wii, maybe better for film if your player is not doing proper reverse intercine already. In your case, if you are watching movies fed from your computer, 120Hz is not doing anything (positive) for ya.
Click to expand...

Lets be clear here, the "gimmick" you are referring to is frame interpolation, not 120Hz. 120Hz does not introduce lag, frame interpolation does. They are two completely different features.
 
120 Hz is both a multiple of a 60 Hz mastered broadcast signal and a 24 Hz mastered movie.
Everyone else has pointed out the benefits of this display rate.

If you are never going to watch a DVD of whatever format, then it probably doesn't matter.
 
Originally posted by: zzuupp
120 Hz is both a multiple of a 60 Hz mastered broadcast signal and a 24 Hz mastered movie.
Everyone else has pointed out the benefits of this display rate.

If you are never going to watch a DVD of whatever format, then it probably doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Ok, now I'm just confused
 
Doh! sorry about that.

Movies are 24 Hz. A 120 Hz monitor would just redisplay 1 frame a total of 5 times. TV is 60, so it displays it twice.

In a 60 Hz monitor, TV is easy, just show the frame once.
Since you cannot divide 24 into 60 evenly, your monitor shows some frames twice, but not all, to get to 60 frames. This makes some slower motion uneven, or juttery.

Since you said 'games', 'wii', and 'tv', but not 'dvd movie', I tried to focus on those needs.
 
Originally posted by: zzuupp
Doh! sorry about that.

Movies are 24 Hz. A 120 Hz monitor would just redisplay 1 frame a total of 5 times. TV is 60, so it displays it twice.

In a 60 Hz monitor, TV is easy, just show the frame once.
Since you cannot divide 24 into 60 evenly, your monitor shows some frames twice, but not all, to get to 60 frames. This makes some slower motion uneven, or juttery.

Since you said 'games', 'wii', and 'tv', but not 'dvd movie', I tried to focus on those needs.
Click to expand...

I believe broadcast TV is 30 FPS actually...not that it matters.
 
Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Originally posted by: zzuupp
Doh! sorry about that.

Movies are 24 Hz. A 120 Hz monitor would just redisplay 1 frame a total of 5 times. TV is 60, so it displays it twice.

In a 60 Hz monitor, TV is easy, just show the frame once.
Since you cannot divide 24 into 60 evenly, your monitor shows some frames twice, but not all, to get to 60 frames. This makes some slower motion uneven, or juttery.

Since you said 'games', 'wii', and 'tv', but not 'dvd movie', I tried to focus on those needs.
Click to expand...

I believe broadcast TV is 30 FPS actually...not that it matters.
Click to expand...

Double Doh! Did I get fields and frames f-d up... but as you noted that still divides in 120
 
I have a Samsung 941BW LCD monitor. And hey, as long as I get similar or better performance out of an LCD TV for games, computer use and movies. Then I'll be happy.
 
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