12 days of nondescript winter celebration!

[Scotteq]

Why were those people executed?

For not being on Che's side.


And Regardless: It flies in the face of any assertions that "Right Wingers" are somehow sole~ly in favor of the death penalty.

To wit:

By 1959, with US aid cut off, the Batista regime is finished. Batista flees the country on New Years Day and the US recognizes the interim government six days later. After a vacation through Africa, Asia, and Yugoslavia, Che' returns to Cuba where he is placed in charge of Comision Depuradora, which includes the military courts and killing squads for former Batista supporters and government officials. All defendants are considered murderers and the appellate court automatically confirms all sentences. Habeas corpus rights are abolished. Che' says that rules of evidence are an "archaic bourgeois detail."

He is placed in charge of La Cabana prison, where the majority of the executions take place. According to the Black Book of Communism, by the mid-1960s, 14,000 Cubans have been executed without fair trials. 500,000 Cubans were incarcerated in labor camps. At one point, in 1961, one of every 19 Cubans was a political prisoner. Che' plays a major role in developing Castro's penal system and defends the executions publicly in 1964 after he had ceased to command the prison. He even dismisses his victims as "all CIA agents" before his death in 1967.

 

[Red Dawn]

Did you know that the British Empire inspired Hitler?

Pssst, it was the Roman Empire

 

[Steeplerot]

No, as opposed to Che Guevara who didn't massacre anybody as far as I know.

I am no apologist for Stalinism, Che was a true believer and all but...

Che was a Stalinist by Cuba times and he did not fool around during the revolution when it came to traitors when living in the jungles. Guerrilla warfare is not "clean" but then any imperialist war is not.

Regardless of the ideology it comes down to the same shit in the end, peoples greed creating disproportionate resource allocation for needs of a populace. The elites use the working class for their wealth allocation, new employment arises from dead soldiers and capitalism (or rather state capitalism) prevails!

Guys in here using these god-awfully inflated numbers of "deathtolls" and black books who think Stalinism killed more then genocides "for progress" against native populations across the world for a few elite capitalists to enrich themselves are either ignorant of history or got a bs agenda and would rather have their own history.

 

[Red Dawn]

As opposed to Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, who murdered and enslaved untold millions because they "Thought" the wrong way?

They killed them because they were tryants much like the tryants of old like Ivan the Terrible and Genghis Kahn

 

[Scotteq]

Edit: Just read the AP article. Apparently Che is a lot worse than a murderer

Yah - As pointed out, Revolution is a dirty, dirty business. None of these guys were saints. It's just that they, or their friends, got to write the history books.

 

[Steeplerot]

Yah - As pointed out, Revolution is a dirty, dirty business. None of these guys were saints. It's just that they, or their friends, got to write the history books.

It was nasty on both sides during the Cuban revolution. It literally went from a bunch of guys in a boat landing in cuba and living in the jungle, the whole time Che writing books while fighting. His books created the term "guerrilla warfare" as we know it. And yes, it was war, against totally lopsided numbers of government troops and the US regime backing them up. It was brutal. The guy went from being a doctor peacenik activist type to a worldwide known revolutionary vanguard writer and icon and warrior.

Yes, he admitted to having to straight up assassinate traitors and infiltrators with no military court unapologetically. But like anything else from cold war red scare era, get both sides. As someone else mentioned -history is written by victors.

Che the Doctor and hero of the sickest and destitute in south america, pre-cuba was a good guy, a south american hero. The fighting and his Stalinism sellout ruined him. (a necessary alliance in his opinion and the big mistake of cold war fighters imo)

 

[Scotteq]

Guys in here using these god-awfully inflated numbers of "deathtolls" and black books who think Stalinism killed more then genocides "for progress" against native populations across the world for a few elite capitalists to enrich themselves are either ignorant of history or got a bs agenda and would rather have their own history.

How many did Joe Stalin kill?

Answer: 20 million

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_did_Stalin_kill


How many did Mao kill?

40 Million

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_did_Mao_kill


How many People did Hitler Kill?

11 million

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_did_hitler_have_killed_in_world_war_2

 

[Steeplerot]

20 million? You owned yourself with your own link:



All accounts agree that it is in the millions, perhaps even more than Hitler.


Where you are getting the 20 million is from rightwing hackery books that are straight up using german propaganda numbers for whatever reasons.

All these wars are bad, but blaming it on a general term like leftists for political gain to divide fellow Americans is bullshit when these hacks write these bunk books. Moreso when the actual history does not match up nor do the audience obviously even understand what these words like Socialist mean.

It is like yelling FIRE in a crowded democracy when people cannot even get facts straight.

 

[Throckmorton]

20 million? You owned yourself with your own link:



All accounts agree that it is in the millions, perhaps even more than Hitler.


Where you are getting the 20 million is from rightwing hackery books that are straight up using german propaganda numbers for whatever reasons.

All these wars are bad, but blaming it on a general term like leftists for political gain to divide fellow Americans is bullshit when these hacks write these bunk books. Moreso when the actual history does not match up nor do the audience obviously even understand what these words like Socialist mean.

It is like yelling FIRE in a crowded democracy when people cannot even get facts straight.

Comparing rightists to Hitler and leftists to Stalin is equally stupid. Both the left and the right bad enough without needing hyperbole.

 

[Scotteq]

20 million? You owned yourself with your own link:



All accounts agree that it is in the millions, perhaps even more than Hitler.


Where you are getting the 20 million is from rightwing hackery books that are straight up using german propaganda numbers for whatever reasons.

All these wars are bad, but blaming it on a general term like leftists for political gain to divide fellow Americans is bullshit when these hacks write these bunk books. Moreso when the actual history does not match up nor do the audience obviously even understand what these words like Socialist mean.

It is like yelling FIRE in a crowded democracy when people cannot even get facts straight.

Thank you for your complete fail to even read the whole post: I clearly listed Hitler's numbers.

Regarding "German propaganda" - These are accepted general numbers, freely available to any who look. If you are opining (twice in this thread) that these numbers are provided by Germany as some propaganda effort; I'd be interested in seeing your proof, rather than your hyperbole.

 

[Scotteq]

Comparing rightists to Hitler and leftists to Stalin is equally stupid. Both the left and the right bad enough without needing hyperbole.

Economically, Hitler was a Centrist: His government's economic policies were that of a managed capitalist system. Stalin was a Leftist/Communist. If you want a right winger, then check out Pinochet.


Here: http://www.politicalcompass.org There's a chart that differentiates economic from social policies and places a lot of these guys: http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

 

[dmcowen674]

It seems like the point of that video is that conservatives don't understand the separation of church and state, hate Islam, hate diversity, and hate tolerance of others.

So you're finally admitting it?

You forgot they hate America

 

[ShawnD1]

It seems like the point of that video is that conservatives don't understand the separation of church and state, hate Islam, hate diversity, and hate tolerance of others. So you're finally admitting it?

GRR WHY CAN'T I USE TAX DOLLARS FROM JEWS AND MUSLIMS TO PAY FOR CHRISTIAN SPECIFIC CELEBRATIONS GRRRRR

And apparently you're not supposed to tell people you have two mommies. It's best to just lie to everyone. Lying is good. It even says so in the bible. Wait no it doesn't.

 

[Throckmorton]

You forgot they hate America

Good catch

 

[Steeplerot]

Thank you for your complete fail to even read the whole post: I clearly listed Hitler's numbers.

Finding anti-soviet propaganda is amazingly easy on the web. But what you linked you obviously did not even take a moment to read.

 

[CanOWorms]

Pssst, it was the Roman Empire

Pssst, he was inspired by more than one thing.

He was heavily inspired by the British invention of concentration camps, the Empire's tactics, etc. Churchill and Hitler were mirrors of each other, too.

 

[theeedude]

Teabaggers complaining about insufficient bigotry and state endorsement of religion. What else is new?

 

[Steeplerot]

Economically, Hitler was a Centrist

Thanks Benito. You learn something every day.

 

[Scotteq]

Thanks Benito. You learn something every day.

Mussolini and Hitler practiced a form of Economic Corporatism: i.e. the State worked with corporations (willingly or not) in order to drive economic growth and ensure the State has the materials it needs to drive that state's efforts. This is a more centrist position than in Communism, since under a communist system, the state *owns* industry.


But thank you for once again demonstrating your complete inability to differentiate between economic policies (communist versus free market capitalist) and social ones (totalitarian/authoritarian against Anarchist/Libertarian). It's also nice to know that the moment you are brought out of your shallow little world you have no recourse but to resort to name calling.