$1000 Budget for first film. Need suggestions.

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Cattykit

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
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ok. i love that canon dslr!! but how hard is it to shoot without the articulating lcd found in camcorders??? anyone with experience?

I use 5d mk2.
Don't worry about it. While it's not easy as using camcoders, it's not that difficult for you to worry about. Plus T2i has 3:2 ratio LCD unlike 5d mk2 or 7d, that should make it even easier.

And I assume you're proficient at manually focusing lenses? Because as much as people love to hype up the video capabilities of the latest DSLR, it still won't autofocus.

It won't autofocus (it acutally does but painfully slow) but once you get used to it, it's not much of an issue.
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
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71
Yea now I'm just getting a bit overwhelmed.

Sound Mic Kits @ $900
Sound Adaptor @ $300+
Sound Sync @ $150
Camera @ $800 w/o Lens. $900 w/.
Lens @ $100 - $750
Lighting @ $100 minimum
Misc @ $300 mininum (Batteries, small tripod stand(s), bag, cables, memory card(s), etc).

The costs for this are (understandably) getting very high. My intent was $1000-$1500 (max) but its skyrocketing into the $3000+ range. I know filming is expensive, but I really don't have that kind of cash to burn. The T2i looks superb, but the sound equipment and lenses alone break the entire budget. Until I have an additional $2000 for these things I have no idea what I should be looking for.


-Edit: Perhaps it might be a good idea to start with silent films (complemented with music and sound effects); in order to save some money yet still be able to express some sort of cinematic... quality_(for lack of a better word)?
 
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alfa147x

Lifer
Jul 14, 2005
30,056
98
91
Yea now I'm just getting a bit overwhelmed.

Sound Mic Kits @ $900
Sound Adaptor @ $300+
Sound Sync @ $150
Camera @ $800 w/o Lens. $900 w/.
Lens @ $100 - $750
Lighting @ $100 minimum
Misc @ $300 mininum (Batteries, small tripod stand(s), bag, cables, memory card(s), etc).

The costs for this are (understandably) getting very high. My intent was $1000-$1500 (max) but its skyrocketing into the $3000+ range. I know filming is expensive, but I really don't have that kind of cash to burn. The T2i looks superb, but the sound equipment and lenses alone break the entire budget. Until I have an additional $2000 for these things I have no idea what I should be looking for.


-Edit: Perhaps it might be a good idea to start with silent films (complemented with music and sound effects); in order to save some money yet still be able to express some sort of cinematic... quality_(for lack of a better word)?

This might help some:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2057026

are you a student? or do you know one?
 

finbarqs

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2005
4,057
2
81
rent... Rent the stuff, and it'll be a lot cheaper! If you're looking to purchase, then you gotta go second hand stuff.... only way!
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
I'm all for second hand stuff.

The lighting/steady cam stuff mentioned is perfect. The sound however seems to be my biggest concern..unless I try the whole 'silent film' route for a while.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
136
I'm all for second hand stuff.

The lighting/steady cam stuff mentioned is perfect. The sound however seems to be my biggest concern..unless I try the whole 'silent film' route for a while.

My suggestion -

1. Buy a 550D (T2i) with the kit lens (18-55mm) - $900
2. Buy a Zoom H4n XLR recorder - $320 (eBay kit w/ memory card & remote)
3. Build the Poor Man's Steadicam - $15
4. Build the DIY boom pole - $15

$1250 plus a memory card (for the camera). Use your Shure's on the boom for now - they'll be 100x better than the camera's onboard mic!! And you have plenty of room for upgrades - new lenses, Lav mics, boom mics, shotgun mics, all kinds of stuff.
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
My suggestion -

1. Buy a 550D (T2i) with the kit lens (18-55mm) - $900
2. Buy a Zoom H4n XLR recorder - $320 (eBay kit w/ memory card & remote)
3. Build the Poor Man's Steadicam - $15
4. Build the DIY boom pole - $15

$1250 plus a memory card (for the camera). Use your Shure's on the boom for now - they'll be 100x better than the camera's onboard mic!! And you have plenty of room for upgrades - new lenses, Lav mics, boom mics, shotgun mics, all kinds of stuff.

Excellent, thanks a bunch for those tips. I'll most likely start off with that and go from there.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
136
Excellent, thanks a bunch for those tips. I'll most likely start off with that and go from there.

Careful...it can become addicting. My paychecks keep disappearing :awe:
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
Careful...it can become addicting. My paychecks keep disappearing :awe:

lol yea I'm the same way with my Drumming. I couldn't stop buying symbols, pedals, stands, toms, bells, cowbells, etc. Somehow I was convinced to sell it all for school last semester to pay for everything. :(
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
I tried finding some people @ my university here and just found empty rooms lol. Perhaps I'll check tomorrow. :)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
136
I tried finding some people @ my university here and just found empty rooms lol. Perhaps I'll check tomorrow. :)

Just go over to the film dept. and snag an intern. They're always jonesing for exprience ;)
 

MegaWorks

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
3,819
1
0
HD Video DSLR will be the standard for most pro videographers.

I have my
canon-eos-1d-mark-iv.jpg
on order! :)
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
Four questions:

1. Official T2i batterys are $95. Are the ones on ebay a good alternative? (Say I buy two)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-for-Can...emQQptZBatteries_Chargers?hash=item3efdc48fa6

2. Is the camera even out yet?

3. Currently looking at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-T2i-Digi...EPKEE7WPJJS89K
-And it appears to be not available. Am I looking at the right place?

4. Do I need to purchase a memory card? (8gb linked). How much 1080p video card be stored on something of this size?
http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Cla...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1268474980&sr=1-1
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
136
Four questions:

1. Official T2i batterys are $95. Are the ones on ebay a good alternative? (Say I buy two)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-for-Can...emQQptZBatteries_Chargers?hash=item3efdc48fa6

2. Is the camera even out yet?

3. Currently looking at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-T2i-Digi...EPKEE7WPJJS89K
-And it appears to be not available. Am I looking at the right place?

4. Do I need to purchase a memory card? (8gb linked). How much 1080p video card be stored on something of this size?
http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Clas...8474980&sr=1-1

1. To me, batteries are batteries. Cheapo aftermarket batteries probably lie about their capacity, but you can get about 8 knockoffs for the price of one real one, so I'm always willing to take that hit :D One thing you may want to look at for increased battery life is a battery grip, which is a grip that attaches to the camera that you can put batteries on - so it doubles as a better hand-holding system, as well as more battery capacity. I believe the T2i uses the BG-E8 grip.

2/3. Kinda - it's sold out everywhere. You are coming in on the brink of it's release, and it is EXTREMELY popular (i.e. hard to find). It should be readily available within a few weeks, I'd imagine. Maybe. Haha.

4. Basically, you can only record up to 4GB max per video clip, or 12 minutes. The memory cards are FAT32-formatted, which means it can't handle files more than 4GB in size, which equates out to 12 minutes. So:

4GB card = 12 minutes
8GB card = 24 minutes (in 12-minute chunks)
16GB card = 48 minutes (in 12-minute chunks)
32GB card = 96 minutes (in 12-minute chunks)

Having it record in 12-minute chunks is a big limitation for plain old video recording, but it's fine for doing homemade films - your shots are always very short in films. The ASL (average shot length) is never more than 5 or 10 seconds. Even long shots don't really exceed 20 seconds nowadays:

http://www.cinemetrics.lv/database.php?sort=year

For convenience, you can get a portable storage device if you don't want to carry around a lot of cards (I'd recommend two 8gb cards at minimum, 16gb if you can swing it just for more headroom - two in case you lose one or one breaks). Two options are a Netbook (most have SD card readers built-in; you can get a 640gb laptop drive under $100 nowadays) or a dedicated HDD-based file storage unit. I use a HyperDrive:

http://www.hypershop.com/HyperDrive-Memory-Card-Backup-Device-s/119.htm

It's basically an iPod with a laptop hard drive inside. You pop your card in and hit the copy button, and it dumps everything on your memory card to the internal hard drive. This way you can shoot all day long and not worry about filling up your memory cards.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
On the other hand you could get 2 or 3 camcorders for the same money..

I liked your GTA4 film, but I'm wondering if you're gonna put a $1000 DSLR in the street for low angle shots of cars and stuff, or maybe it makes more sense to put a $130 Sanyo CG10 there ? Instead of a $350 wide angle lens for a DSLR you could get a Panasonic ZS3 for $210.

If 1080p24 is important a Canon HF200 is about $500. And a $400 Sony CX110 should have excellent low light capability, and it can transfer files directly to an external hard drive, so you don't need a netbook or other device.

Get all 4 for $1250 or so. Which is gonna give you the most flexibility, this or one expensive DSLR ?

Compelling film is about the story and imagination of the director, not so much the quality of the camera used.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
136
Question on stuff like this:

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11350991_G9vAj#797228127_NWX23

The XLR seems to be plugged into a quarter inch port on the camera.

Why cant this port be used to record the audio transmitted into the microphone opposed to some external box? Can't I just get a 20ft XLR > 1/4in cable, plug it into the camera, and use a DIY boom pole?

A few reasons:

1. XLR works better than regular 1/8" or 1/4" cables - XLR protects against interference. Even on a 10' run of minijack cable, you'll be way more suspectible to various noise interference. Basically the cable becomes a giant antenna. You can get away with it - sometimes - but it'd be better to do a long XLR cable, then like a short 6" XLR-to-Minijack adapter on the end so that you minimize the antenna-ness. XLR is shielded against that stuff because of the wiring.

2. Most microphones need power to record, either via a battery or by line power (called phantom power, which comes from the recording device - camera, recorder, or mixer - usually 48 volts). If your microphone runs off batteries, great. If your microphone needs phantom power, then you need something that will send juice to the mic via XLR - the minijack mic inputs on cameras don't send power typically. So you'd need some kind of small amp (usually a mixer) to power the microphone(s). Juicelink makes some nice ones for small cameras and dSLR's:

http://www.juicedlink.com/

3. Canon cameras have a huge fault with onboard microphone recording - AGC. AGC stands for auto-gain control. This means it auto-adjusts the microphone levels to what it feels is best. Basically the camera's mic port is like a kid playing with the sound dial on your stereo - up and down, up and down, up and down. Not real good for getting consistent audio quality. You can do it, sure, but you're not going to have the level of control you want, because you get NO control with AGC.

This is one of the biggest complaints people have with Canon dSLR cameras - it's convenient to record audio to the same file as video, but not if your audio can't be controlled. It would be like buying a camera that only has autofocus - you don't get to choose what's in focus in your shot, the camera does - it takes away your artistic control. Yes, it gives you a picture, but not necessarily the one you want. So that's why you want a separate audio recording system with a Canon dSLR camera.

The trick is to get use PluralEyes software - you record using the Canon's onboard mic to get a reference track, then you use PluralEyes to sync your good external mic to the soundtrack automagically (it matches up the waveforms of the audio to each other for you, so you don't have to do it by hand, which is a long & painful process). It's like the best thing ever for amateur cinematographers:

http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html

The "professional" option is called TimeCode, which generates a time clock numbering system that matches on both the audio recorder and the video camera. Then when you edit the audio and video together, you just have to match up the numbers, which is a lot faster and easier than matching up the wave pattern of the audio for every single track (easier because the software can take care of it for you).

But an audio recorder with TimeCode starts at several thousand dollars, the same for cameras with TimeCode. So this PluralEyes software is awesome because it's similar to TimeCode, but without any of the setup or hardware required. So now you can have super-high-quality audio with your awesome video without much effort or cost :)
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
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On the other hand you could get 2 or 3 camcorders for the same money..

I liked your GTA4 film, but I'm wondering if you're gonna put a $1000 DSLR in the street for low angle shots of cars and stuff, or maybe it makes more sense to put a $130 Sanyo CG10 there ? Instead of a $350 wide angle lens for a DSLR you could get a Panasonic ZS3 for $210.

If 1080p24 is important a Canon HF200 is about $500. And a $400 Sony CX110 should have excellent low light capability, and it can transfer files directly to an external hard drive, so you don't need a netbook or other device.

Get all 4 for $1250 or so. Which is gonna give you the most flexibility, this or one expensive DSLR ?

Compelling film is about the story and imagination of the director, not so much the quality of the camera used.

Agreed - and you can mix footage pretty easily by color-correcting. The Crank movies with Jason Statham used some cheap Canon HF10's iirc for some of the action shots where the camera got destroyed. And as far as the quality of the story goes, look at the Blair Witch Project or Paranormal Activity - the stories made those movies popular, not the quality of the camera.

But it's also way super fun to have a dSLR to get great cinematic shots :awe:
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
136
Could you be specific about what part of that film an HF200 can't do ?

A few key things:

1. Sharpness: Less soft, more sharp with SLR lenses.

2. Rack Focus: You have a lame little finger-dial for manually adjusting focus on the Canon consumer camcorders. With a dSLR, you can adjust the whole lens - and upgrade to a follow-focus unit later for even better control.

3. Bokeh: Again with the SLR lenses - better background blur. You can get it with camcorders, but you can get it better with SLR lenses, and you can do cool effects with rack focus.

4. Low-Light: With the camcorders, you have gain, which introduces noise. The dSLR cameras get much better low-light images (especially as you get more expensive ones, like the 5D MKII and Mark IV).

But it's not like you CAN'T do that video with an HF200. You just get more control and it's easier with a dSLR. It will look pretty close. My HV20's footage still looks great. Just depends on what you're going for.
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
Essentials:
Camera: Cannon T2i with Kit Lens
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-437-_-Product

Battery Grip: BG-E8
http://www.amazon.com/BG-E8-Battery-...8607800&sr=8-1

Memory Card: Transcend 16 GB
http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Clas...d=HPCX9QEZUAC0

Batteries: LP-E8 LPE8 Generics. (Getting two)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-for-Can...emQQptZBatteries_Chargers?hash=item3efdc48ecd

Strap: Canon Hand strap
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-strap-Di...d=HPCX9QEZUAC0

Steadicam: Poor Man's Steadycam
http://littlegreatideas.com/steadycam/


Sound:
Boom Pole: DIY
http://www.indymogul.com/episode/imwe_20070727

Shotgun Mic: AT875***
http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/c...ica_AT875R_AT875_Short_Condenser_Shotgun.html

Note***: Does not include Shockmount, Sound/Wind Supressor

Lighting:
Home Depot, Etc. Misc. ($50 or so).

XLR Cable(s): Own
Accessories: Bag (Cheap)

Software.
Video Editor: Own
Sound Libraries: Own


Thats all about: $1493


Adding in:
XLR recorder: $319 + Shipping
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...G&A=details&Q=

Boom Mic Extras: $379 (Adding cost ontop of shotgun mic)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...G&A=details&Q=

Plural Eyes: +$149
http://www.singularsoftware.com/pluraleyes.html

Comes out to about: $2450

Assuming this was my 'loadout', would this include everything I need? My dad said he could help me out a little, but I don't want to push my luck.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
136
Looks awesome! Crazy how it adds up...you're lucky you're getting it all right off the bat, I piecemealed it over a few years to get the kit I have now, haha. As far as the mic goes, I wouldn't bother getting a mic until you can get the full kit with the shockmount and fuzzy sock - just do the DIY boom pole with one of your Shure mics and a mic clip until you can afford the real thing. You'll be amazed at how hard it is to get clean sound, lol. Drives me absolutely bonkers (mainly because I don't have great audio equipment right now, haha). So snag the kit with the mic/pole/shockmount/windsock as a kit when you can afford to do so.

One piece of advice - really really nail down your workflow before you begin. This is the #1 killer of this hobby I've seen - people spend THOUSANDS on equipment, but get stopped in their tracks because they don't have a clear picture of what to do AFTER they've shot the material, so it becomes a barrier, so they do it less and less and eventually quit. Download some sample T2i files online and play with them in your editing package. Develop your own workflow - importing, transcoding, archiving, color correcting, editing, exporting, etc. Once you know what to do, it's cake, but again - I'm serious here - do it BEFORE you get your toys so that you don't get into the quitting pattern.

Also, I'm super jealous :)