100 Muslims fired at Local meatpacking plant

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

Definently, that is why i say we should move the christmas holiday so it's always on a weekend.

When in America, aren't you supposed to have freedom of religion? Or is that unimportant in SOME cases?

there are plenty of companies including mine that have to have employees WORK on christmas day. OMGWTFBBQ!!!!

 

[daniel49]

Heck there working on a hotdog line.....shove in a few ballparks and boogie on.
Otherwise suck it up, Your prayer and fasting is not your employers responsability.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I don't get how it's getting ridiculous, there is a move of a break, not by much, one month a year?

The thing i am getting most tired of is how Christians are going to claim that you live in a free country that observes all Christian holidays but say it's ridiculous to observe others holidays.

Now you'll get to support them as taxpayers instead of them contributing to your economy! CONGRATULATIONS!

Exactly. There are a bunch of internet experts here spouting on the state of US law, which they essentially contend says suck it up and comply with the employer's rules.

In fact, US antidiscrimination law requires the employer to make reasonable accommodations. I don't know all the facts here and will not rush to judgment, but I don't think it is the former employees attorney here who is nervous.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
How absurd. They were fired as they should have been. Either find a place of employment that is better suited to your prayer schedule, of suck it up. Why do other employees or the employer have to change their schedule so you can go pray at whatever time you want? If they don't want to work the required schedule, fire them all and move on.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll, because the law wisely requires employers to make reasonable accomodations for workers' religious beliefs.

If reasonable accomodation can be made, they need to make it. If it can't, then it's ok for them not to have the employee work there.

This applies to things like Rastaferian hairstyles, Jewish avoiding work on the Sabbath, etc.

 

[dmcowen674]

Is the Swift plant classified as a Mosque?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

Definently, that is why i say we should move the christmas holiday so it's always on a weekend.

When in America, aren't you supposed to have freedom of religion? Or is that unimportant in SOME cases?

there are plenty of companies including mine that have to have employees WORK on christmas day. OMGWTFBBQ!!!!

You're right in a way, this is also why Muslims and Jews have far more in common than Christians and Jews, you won't see a Jew working on a holiday and no one will say anything about that either, but if a large group of employees want a break moved and it's agreed upon by management, then a small group of Christians will piss all over themselves and demand that they be let go.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Is the Swift plant classified as a Mosque?

Huh? As I said, employers are required to make accomodations for religious beliefs when reasonably practical. What does being a mosque have to do with this?

People work, and have religious beliefs that sometimes require accomodation. Do you expect anyone with religious beliefs to only stay inside their religious buildings?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Is the Swift plant classified as a Mosque?

You do realise that the employer had no problem with it until whiny twats started complaining about their break being moved?

So the company had no problem with it.

Until other employees forced the company to conform to THEIR wishes.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
How absurd. They were fired as they should have been. Either find a place of employment that is better suited to your prayer schedule, of suck it up. Why do other employees or the employer have to change their schedule so you can go pray at whatever time you want? If they don't want to work the required schedule, fire them all and move on.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll, because the law wisely requires employers to make reasonable accomodations for workers' religious beliefs.

If reasonable accomodation can be made, they need to make it. If it can't, then it's ok for them not to have the employee work there.

This applies to things like Rastaferian hairstyles, Jewish avoiding work on the Sabbath, etc.

Reasonable accommodations does not mean "do any and everything", it means reasonable accommodations. Personally, I don't think asking someone to actually do their work and continue to work using the previously agreed-upon schedule is unreasonable, and forcing others at the plant to change their schedules to accommodate these folks is unreasonable. If a Jewish person seeks employment at a place that requires them to work on the Sabbath, then they can't complain when the place doesn't make "reasonable accommodations" to have them not work on the Sabbath. Find another place to work that suits your needs, I don't get this mentality of "someone else should change their schedule/behavior/process to suit my needs".

This is the kind of crap that encourages discrimination. Lets assume I have a business that requires tight scheduling and coverage. When someone walks in who says he's a muslim, do I want to hire that person knowing that I'm going to be dealing with this kind of nonsense? Of course not, I'm simply going to hire someone else. Of course it depends on the type of business, but you get the idea.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
How absurd. They were fired as they should have been. Either find a place of employment that is better suited to your prayer schedule, of suck it up. Why do other employees or the employer have to change their schedule so you can go pray at whatever time you want? If they don't want to work the required schedule, fire them all and move on.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll, because the law wisely requires employers to make reasonable accomodations for workers' religious beliefs.

If reasonable accomodation can be made, they need to make it. If it can't, then it's ok for them not to have the employee work there.

This applies to things like Rastaferian hairstyles, Jewish avoiding work on the Sabbath, etc.

Reasonable accommodations does not mean "do any and everything", it means reasonable accommodations. Personally, I don't think asking someone to actually do their work and continue to work using the previously agreed-upon schedule is unreasonable, and forcing others at the plant to change their schedules to accommodate these folks is unreasonable. If a Jewish person seeks employment at a place that requires them to work on the Sabbath, then they can't complain when the place doesn't make "reasonable accommodations" to have them not work on the Sabbath. Find another place to work that suits your needs, I don't get this mentality of "someone else should change their schedule/behavior/process to suit my needs".

This is the kind of crap that encourages discrimination. Lets assume I have a business that requires tight scheduling and coverage. When someone walks in who says he's a muslim, do I want to hire that person knowing that I'm going to be dealing with this kind of nonsense? Of course not, I'm simply going to hire someone else. Of course it depends on the type of business, but you get the idea.

You honestly think that moving a break for a month means that they "do any and everything"?

Go fuck yourself.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: magomago
I'm going to come and take a the side of these Somalis in this instance, of course this doesn't work for all the Macho men running around telling them to shove it.

Unless the article is stating this wrong, these people can't BREAK their fast until 9PM even though it should happen at ~7:30. I work as an engineer, but after 8-9 hours I'm also VERY tired because of fasting. It isn't easy and I do my best to ensure that I'm still productive and getting things done. Again - no water or food from sun rise to sun set. To work in a plant where your main job is manual labor is going to put a HUGE strain on your body because you have not had food nor drink for - at the very least assuming you last ate at sunrise at ~6 - almost 15 hours. Geez...why don't you guys get a grip! As more and more Muslims exist, you better understand that they will fast and unless you are an idiot there is no reason to deny them employment.

Again, I caution with this article because I don't think its clearly written. I can't tell if they won't allow them to pray till 9pm, or if they won't allow them to go get some water and something small to eat until 9pm (which would clearly be the worst scenario). This shouldn't be a big deal - most people probably find more ways to waste way more than 15 minutes per day. You guys say fire them but it shows that very little bother to read the whole article because at the very end it says, "Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 requires businesses to accommodate religious observance or practice unless doing so would cause "undue hardship on the conduct of the employer's business."

The main reason I'm on their side in this instance is because I'm fasting as well and understand that it is not necessarily a walk in the park. Hell for me it should be a walk in the park because I'm doing nowhere near the physical exertion that they are doing...
I hope that much like the Tyson situation, this can be resolved by letting Muslims shift their schedule while non Muslims can keep their original schedule.

Title 7 goes out the window when unions are involved because then anything deviating from the bargaining agreement becomes undue hardship. If this were not a union shop then things probably would have been different.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
You honestly think that moving a break for a month means that they "do any and everything"?

Go fuck yourself.

As usual, another classy post from the jackass JohnOfSheffield. You'll have to forgive him, his severely limited intellectual capability makes it very hard for him to engage in any rational discussion.

<JohnOfSheffield ignore mode on>

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

Definently, that is why i say we should move the christmas holiday so it's always on a weekend.

When in America, aren't you supposed to have freedom of religion? Or is that unimportant in SOME cases?

there are plenty of companies including mine that have to have employees WORK on christmas day. OMGWTFBBQ!!!!

You're right in a way, this is also why Muslims and Jews have far more in common than Christians and Jews, you won't see a Jew working on a holiday and no one will say anything about that either, but if a large group of employees want a break moved and it's agreed upon by management, then a small group of Christians will piss all over themselves and demand that they be let go.

Why are you assuming that only Christians would be upset at such a request? I think most people in any workplace would be resentful of any religious group that tried to force everyone's lunch break to be moved up two hours.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

So I guess you don't mind working on Christmas? 😉

I've worked many holidays, including Christmas and I'm a salaried Engineer. Holidays, religious XYZ, whatever else(except family) is ALWAYS trumped by getting the project/job done. I don't care if employers want to make accommodations for certain situations but for people to expect accommodation is stupid. If the company will not make special accommodations for your XYZ and it's THAT important to you - GET A DIFFERENT F'N JOB. Sheesh.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

So I guess you don't mind working on Christmas? 😉

Nope, and if you do I fully support your right to not show up if forced to work on Christmas. Don't tell anyone, but there are a ton of jobs that require you to work holidays including Christmas.

I also fully support your employers right to fire you if you don't show up on a scheduled work day.

 

[PokerGuy]

"Yes, I know I'm an EMT, but I can't save that guy having a heart attack right now since my aherence to the FSM dictates that every half hour I spent 10 minutes paying homage to the main noodle in the north". It's stupid. If the job (including it's schedule) don't work for your particular religion, don't take that job, find another one.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Funny they are so offended by this, yet have no problem working at a plant that packs pork among other things :roll:

Too bad the Greeley plant is a beef plant. :roll:

Yet another uninformed tool.

Originally posted by: halik
Dude they're not supposed to EAT the pork...

They are not even supposed to come in contact with them.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
"Yes, I know I'm an EMT, but I can't save that guy having a heart attack right now since my aherence to the FSM dictates that every half hour I spent 10 minutes paying homage to the main noodle in the north". It's stupid. If the job (including it's schedule) don't work for your particular religion, don't take that job, find another one.

The law says 'when accomodatin is reasonably practical'. Then you are guaranteed to have someone unable to understand the phrase make a post like the above. Clueless.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Alkaline5

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

Definently, that is why i say we should move the christmas holiday so it's always on a weekend.

When in America, aren't you supposed to have freedom of religion? Or is that unimportant in SOME cases?

there are plenty of companies including mine that have to have employees WORK on christmas day. OMGWTFBBQ!!!!

You're right in a way, this is also why Muslims and Jews have far more in common than Christians and Jews, you won't see a Jew working on a holiday and no one will say anything about that either, but if a large group of employees want a break moved and it's agreed upon by management, then a small group of Christians will piss all over themselves and demand that they be let go.

Why are you assuming that only Christians would be upset at such a request? I think most people in any workplace would be resentful of any religious group that tried to force everyone's lunch break to be moved up two hours.

yep.. no shit.. these changes due to religious beliefs affected everyone.. everyday for 30 days...

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

So I guess you don't mind working on Christmas? 😉

I've worked at several jobs that were 24/7, even on holidays. I worked Christmas, Easter, etc... If I didn't show up on a day that I was scheduled to work I would have gotten fired. Sounds pretty reasonable.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: venkman
Is it so hard to run two lunch periods for a freaking month? What about moving one of the 15 minute scheduled breaks to 7:30? Don't get me wrong, I agree that these idiots who walked off the line should be fired, but I would hope that cooler heads would prevail and a solution could be ironed out without resorting to this level. Now Swift has to deal with bad publicity, a potential lawsuit, and the also the fun task of replacing a 100 workers.

Is it so hard for religious people to not shove their beliefs and prayer schedules down our throats? If a Muslim was a pilot should he stop flying the plane carrying passengers so he can pray on the floor?

Like was stated before, if you don't like the break schedule or the working place, you don't have to stay. They walked out the employer has every right to fire them.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
I don't get how it's getting ridiculous, there is a move of a break, not by much, one month a year?

The thing i am getting most tired of is how Christians are going to claim that you live in a free country that observes all Christian holidays but say it's ridiculous to observe others holidays.

Now you'll get to support them as taxpayers instead of them contributing to your economy! CONGRATULATIONS!

Maybe because this is a country founded BY Christians. Go to a Muslim country and try just practicing Christianity. Let me know how long you live.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
How absurd. They were fired as they should have been. Either find a place of employment that is better suited to your prayer schedule, of suck it up. Why do other employees or the employer have to change their schedule so you can go pray at whatever time you want? If they don't want to work the required schedule, fire them all and move on.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll, because the law wisely requires employers to make reasonable accomodations for workers' religious beliefs.

If reasonable accomodation can be made, they need to make it. If it can't, then it's ok for them not to have the employee work there.

This applies to things like Rastaferian hairstyles, Jewish avoiding work on the Sabbath, etc.

Reasonable accommodations does not mean "do any and everything", it means reasonable accommodations. Personally, I don't think asking someone to actually do their work and continue to work using the previously agreed-upon schedule is unreasonable, and forcing others at the plant to change their schedules to accommodate these folks is unreasonable. If a Jewish person seeks employment at a place that requires them to work on the Sabbath, then they can't complain when the place doesn't make "reasonable accommodations" to have them not work on the Sabbath. Find another place to work that suits your needs, I don't get this mentality of "someone else should change their schedule/behavior/process to suit my needs".

This is the kind of crap that encourages discrimination. Lets assume I have a business that requires tight scheduling and coverage. When someone walks in who says he's a muslim, do I want to hire that person knowing that I'm going to be dealing with this kind of nonsense? Of course not, I'm simply going to hire someone else. Of course it depends on the type of business, but you get the idea.

Your reading comprehension isn't too good.

Let's try again.

The employer is required to make accomodations where reasonably practical.

That law is squarely aimed at the sort of 'don't want to be bothered' attitutude you exhibit.

That means it's *illegal* for you not to hire the person who needs reasonable accomodation.

As a praxtical matter, you might lie and say it's another reason, but that's a matter of you lying, and of enforcement, not the law. And you might get investigated and caught.

If you have a *legitimate need* for something that makes it impractical for you to accomodate them, then you are in your rights not to have that person there.

But the burden of proof is on you to show the court if it comes to that that it was legitimate, and the person's lawyer knows how to challenge that claim if it's made up.

So if you just don't want to be bothered to let a Jew not work the Sabbath but could with moderate imposition that's reasonably practical, then you are required by law to do so.

It's not about you not wanting to bother, it's about you being required by law to do so. And that's how the law should work. It works just fine.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Napalm

Originally posted by: dahunan

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

Feel a bit intolerant saying so - but truer words were never spoke...

You feel that way for a good reason. Thank goodness the law protects workers better.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: dahunan
When in rome do as the romans..

Religion should never trump the rights of our citizens or private enterprise..ever

SNACK ON SOMETHING...LOL... what is the insanity in requiring a full break

Want a job to respect your religion.. then get self-employed

Definently, that is why i say we should move the christmas holiday so it's always on a weekend.

When in America, aren't you supposed to have freedom of religion? Or is that unimportant in SOME cases?

You have freedom of religion. You are free to observe any religion you wish. It does not mean your religion will trump or change accepted and established holidays.

Why is it people are suddenly so anti-christian. It seems like more and more people are against Christianity and the people that are against it are the people that hate Bush. Do you some how think Bush is a poster child of the Christian faith and is indicative of the religion?