10+ dead during shooting at the paper that ran Muhammad cartoon

[raildogg]

Muslims in France were free to draw their own cartoons mocking cartoonists.

Instead they went the terrorist route.

Unfortunately that seems to be the only way that Islam knows how to solve problems. Seriously, is there any open debate allowed in Islam? Or do religious leaders just make proclamations, and the radical among them enforce their version of said proclamation with an AK-47?

Muslims went the terrorist route? The few guys that claimed to be Muslims now are representative of the whole organized religion? I mean, people kill all over the world for various reasons. Whether it's religious or not, it's still killing. I'm willing to assume that many more people are killed aside from "terrorism" related attacks. Why don't these incidents get the same coverage from people? Is it because we cannot pinpoint the incident on one group of people - like the "Muslims?"

That word "terrorist" is such a loaded word that it actually has very little meaning. And by the way, these guys were not Muslims - they were only claiming to be. But that's another story for another day. A couple of hundred years ago, the Westerners were the terrorists of their day. In fact, the modern day "Muslim" terrorists have nothing on these guys in terms of inflicting pain and misery on people.

The rest of the world has a lot to learn from America and the West when it comes to murdering people and inflicting pain.

Your right though, the so-called Muslim leaders are nothing but power grabbers - just like so-called leaders all over the world. I should not even use the word Muslim to describe them but I am to make it easier for people to understand.

 

[Fern]

Because the French don't care what the muslims have to say. They were allowed in to provide cheap labor and not cause a fuss. France already banned the hijabs. I think people are forgetting that when the French get upset they just lop off everyone's heads. I'd like to see muslims try that!

It's more complicated than that.

France held Algeria as a colony. The real Muslim immigration to France began after the conclusion of the Algerian war for independence. The Algerians who worked for, and some cases fought with, the French were being slaughtered by the Algerians pro-independence forces after the war. 900,000 fled to France almost immediately. Others later also fled seeking to avoid retribution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War

It's my understanding that those early immigrants integrated rather well. They spoke French; they had jobs etc.

Some decades later France passed immigration laws allowing the relatives of those who came over in the 60's to also come. This group didn't speak French, nor do they seem to have much effort at integrating.

I lived in France in the late 80's and early 90's. Unemployment, particularly for youth, was very high and had been for many years (I suspect it still is). It was mistake to allow that immigration. It was a mistake to choose to immigrate. To come to France where there was high unemployment, with no (or poor) language skills, no education, no marketable skills and no real social network to help find a job resulted in the problems many predicted.

Fern

 

[Orignal Earl]

Earl, you're the Yogi Berra of analogies. (He's famous, in part, due to his constant malapropisms.)

Pedo's generally make up a small percentage of the population regardless what the law is. This is true for the USA as well as all other countries/societies. Thus, any analogy here is misguided.

I'm speaking to pedophilia that is condoned by (Arab Muslim) authorities and that's something completely different than the underground and illegal activity that exists everywhere. BTW: it's not just ISIS either: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/raymond-ibrahim/new-saudi-fatwa-defends-pedophilia-as-marriage/

Fern

I keep making the mistake of posting links and thinking people read them, and then I continue posting on that assumption...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage

Child marriages were common throughout history for a variety of reasons, including poverty, insecurity, as well as for political and financial reasons. Today, child marriages are still fairly widespread in some developing countries, such as parts of Africa,[4][5] South Asia,[6] Southeast and East Asia,[7][8] West Asia,[9][10] Latin America,[9] and Oceania.[11] The incidence of child marriage has been falling in most parts of the world. The countries with the highest observed rates of child marriages below the age of 18 are Niger, Chad, Mali, Bangladesh, Guinea and the Central African Republic, with a rate above 60%.[12] Niger, Chad, Bangladesh, Mali and Ethiopia were the countries with child marriage rates greater than 20% below the age of 15, according to 2003-2009 surveys

 

[cubby1223]

I fail to see how defacing a synagogue or advocating that Jews be murdered is "free expression," or is remotely a "similar thing" to publishing a cartoon that mocks the hypocritical, destructive, or self-serving behavior of religious icons - including rabbis (or that even just makes fun of religious practices). Perhaps you can enlighten us?

Seems yahoo goofed on their original article link, it's now a different story behind the link I copied.

here's a new link:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/charlie-hebdo-sells-dawn-muhammad-cover-28212043

Authorities said 54 people had been arrested for hate speech and defending terrorism in the last week...

France has been tightening security and searching for accomplices since the terror attacks began, but none of the 54 people mentioned Wednesday have been linked to the attacks. That's raising questions about whether Hollande's Socialist government is impinging on the very freedom of speech that it so vigorously defends when it comes to Charlie Hebdo.

Among those detained was Dieudonne, a popular yet controversial comic who has repeated convictions for racism and anti-Semitism.

What do I need to enlighten you with? I'm going by what the articles are saying, and they're not saying these people are arrested because they took physical actions to harm individuals, the articles are saying they are being arrested for their thoughts and beliefs. It's a bonus the story on abc's website also adds in a line directly reflecting my own thoughts.

 

[BoberFett]

Muslims went the terrorist route? The few guys that claimed to be Muslims now are representative of the whole organized religion? I mean, people kill all over the world for various reasons. Whether it's religious or not, it's still killing. I'm willing to assume that many more people are killed aside from "terrorism" related attacks. Why don't these incidents get the same coverage from people? Is it because we cannot pinpoint the incident on one group of people - like the "Muslims?"

That word "terrorist" is such a loaded word that it actually has very little meaning. And by the way, these guys were not Muslims - they were only claiming to be. But that's another story for another day. A couple of hundred years ago, the Westerners were the terrorists of their day. In fact, the modern day "Muslim" terrorists have nothing on these guys in terms of inflicting pain and misery on people.

The rest of the world has a lot to learn from America and the West when it comes to murdering people and inflicting pain.

Your right though, the so-called Muslim leaders are nothing but power grabbers - just like so-called leaders all over the world. I should not even use the word Muslim to describe them but I am to make it easier for people to understand.

No true Muslim, eh?

 

[Kadarin]

http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/0...361780711&videoChannel=1&channelName=Top+News

More true face of Islam here. It's not just "a few crazy extremists". You could say, well it's just Pakistan, a useless country full of goatfuckers who can't even control their own borders, but these people are Muslims and this is how they really feel.

 

[shira]

Seems yahoo goofed on their original article link, it's now a different story behind the link I copied.

here's a new link:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/charlie-hebdo-sells-dawn-muhammad-cover-28212043



What do I need to enlighten you with? I'm going by what the articles are saying, and they're not saying these people are arrested because they took physical actions to harm individuals, the articles are saying they are being arrested for their thoughts and beliefs. It's a bonus the story on abc's website also adds in a line directly reflecting my own thoughts.

Well, I just read the Wiki article on the Dieudonne, and the guy certainly appears to hate Jews and is overall pretty despicable. But nothing he's reported to have done would warrant prosecution in the U.S. Sounds like France isn't as free, speech-wise, as the U.S.

 

[Nebor]

http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/0...361780711&videoChannel=1&channelName=Top+News

More true face of Islam here. It's not just "a few crazy extremists". You could say, well it's just Pakistan, a useless country full of goatfuckers who can't even control their own borders, but these people are Muslims and this is how they really feel.

LOL. We need to just keep publishing cartoons until these places implode.

 

[Caravaggio]

Agreed, the Khazaks are remarkably moderate and open-minded. [/URL]

I hope you didn't waste too much time hunting down that shot of a Kazakh Islamist executioner.

The point I was making is that not all notionally 'Muslim' societies have identical Wahabism-style ideologies.

Muslim Kazakhs often drink alcohol (see WHO trans-cultural report on alcohol related diseases). Even some Imams do so (Google Muslims and alcohol).
The purpose of my post was to demonstrate that not all people conform to negative cultural stereotypes. While I despise the actions of militant IS style Islamists I have actually been received with great warmth and hospitality in some Muslim countries. (And been scowled at in others).
You bounce right back with the standard 'moral panic' propaganda shot of the Muslim throat -slitter. Yes they really do exist.
Well, I'll see your throat-slitter and raise you one Dr. Baruch Goldstein, the New York Zionist and fan of Meir Kahane, who went into a mosque near Hebron and murdered 29 worshippers and injured 125 more. He was beaten to death by the survivors. There is a little Israeli shrine to him. Cute.

Don't give me that tired old: "Only Muslims are crazed psycho-killers" BS.
Life is more complex. Instead of ranting about 'hateful muslims' ask why they hate you. I can recommend some reading...

 

[werepossum]

Muslims went the terrorist route? The few guys that claimed to be Muslims now are representative of the whole organized religion? I mean, people kill all over the world for various reasons. Whether it's religious or not, it's still killing. I'm willing to assume that many more people are killed aside from "terrorism" related attacks. Why don't these incidents get the same coverage from people? Is it because we cannot pinpoint the incident on one group of people - like the "Muslims?"

That word "terrorist" is such a loaded word that it actually has very little meaning. And by the way, these guys were not Muslims - they were only claiming to be. But that's another story for another day. A couple of hundred years ago, the Westerners were the terrorists of their day. In fact, the modern day "Muslim" terrorists have nothing on these guys in terms of inflicting pain and misery on people.

The rest of the world has a lot to learn from America and the West when it comes to murdering people and inflicting pain.

Your right though, the so-called Muslim leaders are nothing but power grabbers - just like so-called leaders all over the world. I should not even use the word Muslim to describe them but I am to make it easier for people to understand.

If you're going to assert that these guys aren't really terrorists (since that word really has no meaning) and these guys really aren't Muslims, why not just go whole nut and insist that these poor people stop pretending to be dead and get back to work? Or hell, just insist that the whole incident never happened and France is a made-up land white Christians use to spread their hate-filled propaganda.

Sheesh.

 

[BoberFett]

If you're going to assert that these guys aren't really terrorists (since that word really has no meaning) and these guys really aren't Muslims, why not just go whole nut and insist that these poor people stop pretending to be dead and get back to work? Or hell, just insist that the whole incident never happened and France is a made-up land white Christians use to spread their hate-filled propaganda.

Sheesh.

OK, that had me laughing quite loudly. Good thing I'm the last person in the office.

 

[werepossum]

OK, that had me laughing quite loudly. Good thing I'm the last person in the office.

Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[StrangerGuy]

LOL. We need to just keep publishing cartoons until these places implode.

Don't you know the these backwater places will start producing Einsteins, interstellar travel inventors and other enlightened individuals if we stopped insulting them? Think about their feelings.

 

[yllus]

Unfortunately that seems to be the only way that Islam knows how to solve problems. Seriously, is there any open debate allowed in Islam? Or do religious leaders just make proclamations, and the radical among them enforce their version of said proclamation with an AK-47?

Honestly, in my experience, there really isn't any open debate on almost any issue in Muslim countries (outside of maybe Turkey). Because of the particular way the Islam impresses how the rules of the Koran are to be interpreted - the Arabic version of the Koran is literally the word of God written down by his messenger - if you debate, you're committing heresy.

The only substantial debate I've ever witnessed is the most sadly hilarious as well: The Koran says in no uncertain terms that men can and should beat their unobedient wives. I've seen a number of reinterpretations that add on the word "lightly", or "with a small branch/switch". You feel for the people trying to make their religion not have barbaric qualities, but you can't have the 'literal word of God to be strictly interpreted' thing and then decide some unfortunate parts need reimagining.

 

[Subyman]

Drop them an Xbox, some games, a netflix sub, and a verizon hotspot and it would cure the entire middle east.

 

[Blue_Max]

Drop them an Xbox, some games, a netflix sub, and a verizon hotspot and it would cure the entire middle east.

Heh... probably why the imams want to forbid them.

"No! NO! Put down the game controller and get back to making unstable explosives!"