10+ dead during shooting at the paper that ran Muhammad cartoon

[Orignal Earl]

Of course, if outlawing burka's (or whatever they were) has caused so much trouble one can only imagine what problems would ensue enforcing hate speech laws against Mosques.

Fern

Canada has hate speech laws and thousands of Mosques and no problems
Do you think there is a lot of hate speech going on in Mosques?

 

[realibrad]

Canada has hate speech laws and thousands of Mosques and no problems
Do you think there is a lot of hate speech going on in Mosques?

As there are regional differences in Canada, what do you think might be the differences in Muslim cultures when they are separated by countries? Its very possible that hate speech could be a major problem in one country, and not in another.

 

[Fern]

Canada has hate speech laws and thousands of Mosques and no problems
Do you think there is a lot of hate speech going on in Mosques?

Aside from the interpretation of "a lot", yes I believe there is much in Mosques in France and the UK.

However, I don't think "a lot" etc has much to do with it. IMO, you charge just a few with hate speech law violation you'll see a lot of trouble.

Fern

 

[Abwx]

i am not sure what you are trying to argue. I am interested in how Islam influences the West in 2014, not historical events.

2014 is the continuation of history...

You would be well more inspired to ask yourself how the western nations are "influencing" the so called muslim nations, neverless i ll answer your question.

I mean when western nations are destroying a state like Lybia and getting it to be ruled by extremists, who is influencing who.??.

What about the destruction of the Iraqi state, although highly corrupted, who did influence who when talking of the way peoples are living and how they get to live such lifes.?

In short muslims have about no influence in respect of the western world but the contrary is not true...

Aside from the interpretation of "a lot", yes I believe there is much in Mosques in France and the UK.

However, I don't think "a lot" etc has much to do with it. IMO, you charge just a few with hate speech law violation you'll see a lot of trouble.

Fern

In France, a far right political figure got a 150 000€ fine because he stated that gassing rooms were a detail in WW2 history, so he didnt even negate the thing but still he was condemned for thoses words, result is that people are terrorised to speak about such matters, there s no more freedom of expression when it comes to thoses issues, actualy what is called freedom of expression currently is the "right" to bash muslims using whatever myths and fabrications.

 

[Abwx]

Aside from the interpretation of "a lot", yes I believe there is much in Mosques in France and the UK.

Fern

The myths and fabrication i m talking about, "you believe" what exactly.?
What suit your bias.?.

I m no religious at all and actualy not even a believer but by curiosity i got to a few local mosques to check the discourses, set apart that it s boring i didnt hear any hate speech but i guess that your beliefs have surnatural ears to hear what is said in french mosques...

 

[f1sherman]

Europe’s Brutal Truth
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...lam_and_terrorism_europeans_are_both_too.html

Europeans are both too Islamophobic and too timid to face up to the roots of Islamic fundamentalism.

The attack on Charlie Hebdo will further entrench the terms of a confused European debate about Muslim immigrants
—one in which both the “accusers” and the “defenders” of Islam are painting in dangerously broad brushstrokes.

While the European far right points to Islamic terrorism to exclude and malign all Muslims,
the European left responds by refusing to recognize how fundamental a challenge Islamic terrorism represents
(or that it is inspired by Islam at all).

Both sides fail to realize that two seemingly opposite sentiments can stand side by side:
the conviction that Muslims should become full and equal members of European democracies and the unabashed determination to defend those democracies against Islamic fundamentalism.

 

[Orignal Earl]

As there are regional differences in Canada, what do you think might be the differences in Muslim cultures when they are separated by countries? Its very possible that hate speech could be a major problem in one country, and not in another.

Going to say a Catholic Church in different countries can be a different experience each time
If your going to Mass in Israel you wear a scarf and dress and sit on the right side in Church
In Nigeria, the Priests wife is probably playing the organ

Most Churches, Mosques, Temples etc, have a universal message of love and respect your neighbor, and charity. That's what attracts most people to a religion.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Aside from the interpretation of "a lot", yes I believe there is much in Mosques in France and the UK.

Fern

Aside from your beliefs...

Outside of this Anjay characters Mosque are there any other sources for your belief?

 

[raildogg]

Just read the comments by posters on this article:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015...killed-as-terror-suspects-reportedly-spotted/

The amount of hatred spewed by people is slowly coming out. Their racism, ignorance, frustrations and general fears are all out on display. Notice how they trash Obama in the comments on a article about the terrorist attack. I guess hatred knows no limitations.

Guys, hatred is a two way street. It's not just the so-called Islamists that are full of hate and are totally conditioned and brainwashed; your fellow Western man and woman is also very conditioned as well. Each of them have their own ways of showcasing their conditioning. For now, the so-called Islamists are doing it through violent attacks. Though I question whether these attacks are any worse than what the West has been doing to the world for the last 1000+ years.

Two wrongs never make a right. But I think the whole world is totally messed up spiritually and psychologically; yes, you and I are messed up and are responsible for this UGLY world.

 

[Fern]

The myths and fabrication i m talking about, "you believe" what exactly.?
What suit your bias.?.
-snip-

News reports.

Some Imans (or whatever their proper title is) and their Mosques have been the subject of reports, typically when attacks of some sort occur (e.g., London Tube/bus bombing).

Fern

 

[Abwx]

Europeans are both too Islamophobic and too timid to face up to the roots of Islamic fundamentalism.

I dont think that European are fundamentaly islamophobic.

While the European far right points to Islamic terrorism to exclude and malign all Muslims
.

This is true and the french paper did fall into a trap by supporting a far right dane paper that released thoses caricatures in purpose to create uncontrolled reactions like the one that occured in Paris, for the record said far right paper, the Jylland Posten, refused to publish caricatures about the holocaust and christianity that were proposed a few time before they released said controversial caricatures, it s no secret that the owner of the Jylland Postren is a rabid zionist who is promoting a clash of civilisationS as a mean to get the west support the israeli extremist regime.

Charlie Hebdo paper director was too stupid to realize that he was used as a proxy and usefull idiot by a paper with a hate agenda, the following usefull idiots were the two murderers, to summarize the thing they all were instrumentalised by an agenda driven pseudo paper whose racism is well known, in 1938 they were supporting Hitler when he oppressed the jews but since the current owner is a jew, well, there must be another target...

 

[Orignal Earl]

News reports.

Some Imans (or whatever their proper title is) and their Mosques have been the subject of reports, typically when attacks of some sort occur (e.g., London Tube/bus bombing).

Fern

That Iman served nine years in prison and then was deported back to Jamaica

 

[Abwx]

News reports.
Some Imans (or whatever their proper title is) and their Mosques have been the subject of reports, typically when attacks of some sort occur (e.g., London Tube/bus bombing).
Fern

They have no real title, an imam is imam by the will of others or thanks to his duplicity if he s not honnest, contrary to chrisitianity where people have no power to decide who is a cleric and who is not, there s no such thing in mosques and in principle the imam is elected but you can be sure that it wont in real world because this is a place that is disputed for financial and prestige purpose, most of thoses people are incompetent anyway, particularly here in France where their level is very low, at least this is my opinion, most have not the necessary training and knowledge to be capable of accurate analysis.

 

[HTFOff]

It wouldn't be complete without blaming uncle sam.

LifeNews, a mainstream Russian TV news channel, aired a segment on Thursday in which a regular guest and "expert political analyst" stated that the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack in Paris had in fact been carried out by United States intelligence agencies.

The guest, Alexei Martynov, suggested that US intelligence had launched the Charlie Hebdo attack in order to sabotage the global effort against Islamist terrorism, which he argued Russia is leading. Martynov also argued that the attack was meant to pressure French President Francois Hollande into maintaining Western economic sanctions against Russia.

http://www.vox.com/2015/1/8/7514439/charlie-hebdo-russia-cia

 

[Fern]

They have no real title, an imam is imam by the will of others or thanks to his duplicity if he s not honnest, contrary to chrisitianity where people have no power to decide who is a cleric and who is not, there s no such thing in mosques and in principle the imam is elected but you can be sure that it wont in real world because this is a place that is disputed for financial and prestige purpose, most of thoses people are incompetent anyway, particularly here in France where their level is very low, at least this is my opinion, most have not the necessary training and knowledge to be capable of accurate analysis.

Thanks for the info about "Imams".

However, you are mostly incorrect about clerics under Christian religions. I'm not a Catholic so someone who is can correct me if wrong, yes, here, the catholic church chooses the clerics (father, priest whatever) for a church.

However, in the US the great majority are Protestants. The Protestant church is totally decentralized. Each individual church chooses to accept their preacher/pastor. They can also dismiss them if they so desire.

In my experience (Presbyterian) all preachers/pastors are graduates of a seminary college. However, I believe that in many small rural areas some baptist preachers/pastors are not seminary college graduates.

But yes, aside from Catholics, we (the people in the individual church) decide who the clerics are.

I think the level of decentralization of Protestants is unknown for the most part. We have no Pope, no Grand Imams, no religious authorities, no Mecca etc. We only have some loose confederations of churches that (mostly) agree to a limited set of religious tenets, the purpose of which is to share resources for common goals. (E.g., support the building of a drinking water project in a 3rd world country.) Only some churches belong to such confederations.

Fern

 

[TheSlamma]

This is obviously a religion problem, not just an Islam problem.

Some religions are still in their dark ages though, in perticular the one that says it's okay to remove a womens clitoris so she doesn't have pleasure having sex, is forced to walk behind their man and that man is allowed to have sex with teenage girls and is rewarded for killing infidels.

I'm not an atheist I'm an Anti-Theist, I hate all religions but anyone who doesn't' see some are more dangerous than others are crazy or just plain stupid. Yes I know about all the BS Christians and their denominations have done and are still doing but they are "less worse" than Islam right now.

 

[Abwx]

Thanks for the info about "Imams".

However, you are mostly incorrect about clerics under Christian religions. I'm not a Catholic so someone who is can correct me if wrong, yes, here, the catholic church chooses the clerics (father, priest whatever) for a church.

However, in the US the great majority are Protestants. The Protestant church is totally decentralized. Each individual church chooses to accept their preacher/pastor. They can also dismiss them if they so desire.

In my experience (Presbyterian) all preachers/pastors are graduates of a seminary college. However, I believe that in many small rural areas some baptist preachers/pastors are not seminary college graduates.

But yes, aside from Catholics, we (the people in the individual church) decide who the clerics are.

I think the level of decentralization of Protestants is unknown for the most part. We have no Pope, no Grand Imams, no religious authorities, no Mecca etc. We only have some loose confederations of churches that (mostly) agree to a limited set of religious tenets, the purpose of which is to share resources for common goals. (E.g., support the building of a drinking water project in a 3rd world country.) Only some churches belong to such confederations.

Fern

Ok, you re right that presbyterian do not have a formal and hierarchised church.

When i said that people do not have the right to name who is cleric, in the catholic church, i was refering to common people, that is, they have an organised and hierarchised church.

The difference between said presbyterian and islamic cults is that the former is a somewhat a collective cult while islam is eagerly individualist by essence, the fact that some muslims seems to get together for whatever purpose is only an appearance, everyone gets in for his own sake, whatever what is achieved, this is in opposition with the common assumption, and misconception, that muslims are a "world", they will only side together under extreme urgences.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Some religions are still in their dark ages though, in perticular the one that says it's okay to remove a womens clitoris so she doesn't have pleasure having sex, is forced to walk behind their man and that man is allowed to have sex with teenage girls and is rewarded for killing infidels.

I'm not an atheist I'm an Anti-Theist, I hate all religions but anyone who doesn't' see some are more dangerous than others are crazy or just plain stupid. Yes I know about all the BS Christians and their denominations have done and are still doing but they are "less worse" than Islam right now.

You must be unaware that people in those places follow that cultural practice (the FGM) regardless of religion.
In Niger, Christian women consider it an honor and most Muslims are against it.
Those practices existed before any modern religions did

 

[Phynaz]

Ok, you re right that presbyterian do not have a formal and hierarchised church.

When i said that people do not have the right to name who is cleric, in the catholic church, i was refering to common people, that is, they have an organised and hierarchised church.

The difference between said presbyterian and islamic cults is that the former is a somewhat a collective cult while islam is eagerly individualist by essence, the fact that some muslims seems to get together for whatever purpose is only an appearance, everyone gets in for his own sake, whatever what is achieved, this is in opposition with the common assumption, and misconception, that muslims are a "world", they will only side together under extreme urgences.

My God you're an idiot.

 

[marincounty]

The Iraq war supposedly radicalized the two French terrorist brothers.http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/terrorist-radicalized-torture.html
At his apartment, Benyettou took them on the internet, and showed them images from Bush’s invasion and occupation of Iraq. Sharif said, “It was everything I saw on the television, the torture at Abu Ghraib prison, all that, which motivated me.”

Benyettou ran a recruitment ring targeting young French Muslims that sent them to fight US troops in Iraq. They jogged in a park to get in shape and got rudimentary training in how to handle a Kalashnikov semi-automatic. They would tell their families that they were going to study in Syria. And they would spend some time in hard line Salafi schools. But then they would slip across the border into Iraq.

Sharif was about to go to Iraq in 2005, himself, to fight Bush’s troops there (which he saw as aggressive foreign occupiers), but he and a friend were arrested and interrogated by the French police.

Thanks Bush. Bush, Cheney, Rice all have blood on their hands for radicalizing thousands of terrorists. No, this is not Obama's fault.

 

[Abwx]

My God you're an idiot.

There s no god, so you are the actual idiot that take as witness something that do not exist, you could as well have said "my dog", or "my idiocy", the latter would be the most on point.

 

[5150Joker]

I was watching some news clip saying right wing parties are getting a lot more recruits in Europe now. Can't wait to see how this boils over in the long run. They won't only be setting their sights on Muslims, after that it'll be the Jews again.

 

[Abwx]

I was watching some news clip saying right wing parties are getting a lot more recruits in Europe now. Can't wait to see how this boils over in the long run. They won't only be setting their sights on Muslims, after that it'll be the Jews again.

This time things are different, in France a right winger journalist who is jew recently advocated for mass deportation of muslims from France, the Jylland Posten, from where said caricatures emerged, is owned by a zionist jew that is openly advocating for a clash of civilisation, so it s rather extreme right parties and zionists extremists that did find a common ground to diabolize muslims, not that they actualy love each other...

 

[5150Joker]

This time things are different, in France a right winger journalist who is jew recently advocated for mass deportation of muslims from France, the Jylland Posten, from where said caricatures emerged, is owned by a zionist jew that is openly advocating for a clash of civilisation, so it s rather extreme right parties and zionists extremists that did find a common ground to diabolize muslims, not that they actualy love each other...

Doesn't matter, those Zionists are playing with fire and will end up in the crosshairs of those extremist parties. If you go visit extremist websites, most of them hate Jews as much if not more than Muslims. And in a clash of civilizations, Jews would lose given their tiny % so of course it benefits them to stir the pot wherever they can. Let's say tomorrow there's an Inquisition 2.0 in Europe and Muslims either leave, convert or whatever. After that, who would those right wingers look at? Yep, Jews who still control a lions share of the wealth in Europe. Israel wouldn't be enough to protect them. Muslims on the other hand number close to 2 billion, the few million who left Europe wouldn't put a dent in them and would just embolden them more towards unity and make things worse for Jews (Zionist or otherwise) and everyone else in the long run.

 

[Abwx]

Doesn't matter, those Zionists are playing with fire and will end up in the crosshairs of those extremist parties. If you go visit extremist websites, most of them hate Jews as much if not more than Muslims. And in a clash of civilizations, Jews would lose given their tiny % so of course it benefits them to stir the pot wherever they can.

What happened in past centuries in Europe in respect of jews will not occur again in the future, there might be a lot of hate in some sites but are thoses hatefull people and their follower that numerous.?.

Sure that they make a lot of noise but that sound as an aknowledgment of their powerlessness more than anything else, jews have nothing to fear in Europe as they hold a lot of power, be it financial, papers and cultural, but not so much for muslims that are mostly part of the blue collar world and are an easy target due to their individualism, i m french living in France and i can aknowledge that muslims are not very prone to create or participate in political organisations, actualy the only occasion where they act collectively is when they go to the mosques but outside this place they share few things, if anything, in daylife unless they are playing in some local soccer club...