10+ dead during shooting at the paper that ran Muhammad cartoon

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Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
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.

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[29]

December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana.]

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire.

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building.

May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[40]

December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[41][42]

January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness[43] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[44]

January 1, 2012 Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building.

April 1, 2012 A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.

April 11, 2013 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe

Boy, you really are bending over backward in this equivalance attempt. More violence was done in 1 day of the Furguson protests, than in 10 years of abortion clinic attacks.

Meanwhile, anyone with a brain knows killing 12 people for drawing a picture of your prophet is off the goddamned charts compared to anti-abortion violence, or the Furguson violence.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,244
55,794
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Boy, you really are bending over backward in this equivalance attempt. More violence was done in 1 day of the Furguson protests, than in 10 years of abortion clinic attacks.

Meanwhile, anyone with a brain knows killing 12 people for drawing a picture of your prophet is off the goddamned charts compared to anti-abortion violence, or the Furguson violence.

Agree.

While Christian terrorism is certainly a thing, it is not nearly as large currently as Islamic terrorism.

I still find the demands by people here that all Muslims answer for the actions of a crazed few to be absolute silliness, but that's a different issue.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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I'm sorry to say that I absolutely support freedom of the press and the 1st amendment. But just because you have that freedom doesn't mean you should be irresponsible with it either. Just look. There was nothing positive about them releasing their Muhammad cartoons. What they were trying to prove is yes we can do it, and no you don't scare us. They knew very well they could be attacked. They were told they would be attacked. Now a few years later. They were attacked, and were slaughtered. I guess that is the price they pay for their irresponsible use of their freedoms. Yes that is arrogance. They were free to offend. They offended. That freedom cost them their lives. That's the gamble they took.

Yep. No sympathy.

Well that pretty much lets anyone who blows up an abortion clinic and kills women off the hook. Exercise your rights and take your chances.
 

PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
1,848
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"We have avenged the Prophet!"

So that's their religion. The gunmen I mean, they believe blood is the honor their value system demands. They have made their choice clear. Where does the world population stand? Where do French Muslims stand? The men associated with the gunmen? Their families?

At some point between global generalization, and direct familiar ties we will find men of equal or similar views. That Islam = terrorism as carried out by these gunmen.

It should be the intent of the civilized world to find where that line is drawn, to stand shoulder to shoulder with Muslims on our side to condemn the gunmen and their mission. To work together for peace. To condemn and isolate those on the other side of the line.

Peace and active condemnation and rejection of violence is not mutually exclusive. Action must be taken to separate Islam from these gunmen, and to reject those who remain steadfast on the side of terrorism.

I'll wait until the Muslims take to the street to promote freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and denounce violence (even if it's not violence directed at them).

So far, that hasn't happened. Third act of muslim terrorism in France in a very short time.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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Agree.

While Christian terrorism is certainly a thing, it is not nearly as large currently as Islamic terrorism.

I still find the demands by people here that all Muslims answer for the actions of a crazed few to be absolute silliness, but that's a different issue.

We have two kinds of deniers. One is that all Muslims answer and the other is that there isn't a problem. When South Park has to take an episode off the air for fear of being murdered by the likes of these people that's a huge issue. Instead we hear about the Crusades.

Makes no sense.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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I'll wait until the Muslims take to the street to promote freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and denounce violence (even if it's not violence directed at them).

So far, that hasn't happened. Third act of muslim terrorism in France in a very short time.

Why do they personally have to take to the streets to personally denounce the violence? The peaceful ones are not responsible for the nuts. Just like people protesting police brutality are not responsible for the nut that assassinated the police officers, nor are the anti-choice protesters responsible for the actions of anti-choice terrorists, nor are peaceful Christians responsible for acts of terrorism done by people that also claim to be Christians.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
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If they are suppose to be a religion of peace, why won't the good and proper Muslims all rise up in outcry at such atrocities? They should be teaching, loudly, all over the world in their temples that this is wrong. Publish multiple articles world wide to condemn these extremists, and denounce these types of actions. That would truly be supporting peace, their silence could easily be mistaken as silent support for terrorism.

Well, at least some of them are:

Mixed Reaction From Social Media Users in Arab World

The news from Paris swiftly took over the conversation on social media in the Arab world on Wednesday, as users who had been obsessing about a winter storm sweeping the Middle East turned instead to discussing the attack. Many condemned the violence and lamented the anti-Muslim backlash they thought would follow, but some called it a victory or “a blessed invasion.”

A Twitter user who calls himself Abu Obaida al-Libi, borrowing an alias used by militants who have been killed in Libya or Syria, shared a photograph that appeared to show one of the Paris attackers pointing an automatic rifle at a victim, with the hashtag in Arabic, #WeAvengedTheProphet.

In another tweet, the same user hailed “a powerful operation in France” against “a paper known for its abuse of Islam” and said, “The next is worse.”

Many tweets seemed to indicate sympathy for the attack from people who admire the Islamic State extremist group, rather than any knowledge that that group was specifically responsible for the attack. One user seeking to draw a link posted a picture of a man wearing a many-pocketed khaki vest and said, “One of the brothers is wearing the Adnani ammunition vest. You pleased our hearts, one of the attackers is saying ‘God is Great’ (Allahu Akbar) in the middle of Paris.” (Abu Mohammad al-Adnani is an ISIS leader and spokesman who has been photographed in such a vest.)

An account that appeared to support Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninusla also celebrated the attack, saying that those who insult the Prophet Mohammad deserve death: “Being executed was the light punishment. Next comes eternity in the #Hellfire.”

...
— ANNE BARNARD AND HWAIDA SAAD
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Boy, you really are bending over backward in this equivalance attempt. More violence was done in 1 day of the Furguson protests, than in 10 years of abortion clinic attacks.

Meanwhile, anyone with a brain knows killing 12 people for drawing a picture of your prophet is off the goddamned charts compared to anti-abortion violence, or the Furguson violence.
And therein lies the rub.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
People kill people.

Guns don't do it, government doesn't do it, religion doesn't do it. People do.

We try and label them in order to find a way to separate them from us. Oh sure Americans killed around 1mil in vietnam, but they were COMMUNISTS. Oh this mass murderer HAD A GUN, oh these ISLAMIC extremists beheaded someone in the street. This DRUG cartel beheaded a rat.

Common thread between them all? You guessed it. People.
 

himkhan

Senior member
Jul 13, 2013
665
370
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Boy, you really are bending over backward in this equivalance attempt. More violence was done in 1 day of the Furguson protests, than in 10 years of abortion clinic attacks.

Meanwhile, anyone with a brain knows killing 12 people for drawing a picture of your prophet is off the goddamned charts compared to anti-abortion violence, or the Furguson violence.

:whiste:

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before in 1984 and was also bombed subsequently in 2012.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after being apprehended in France in 2001.

May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at a church in Wichita, Kansas.

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.

Attempted murders in the U.S. included:
August 1982: Three men identifying as the Army of God kidnapped Hector Zevallos (a doctor and clinic owner) and his wife, Rosalee Jean, holding them for eight days.

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).

July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.

January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs"). The New York Times also cites over one hundred clinic bombings and incidents of arson, over three hundred invasions, and over four hundred incidents of vandalism between 1978 and 1993. The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.

May 26, 1983: Joseph Grace set the Hillcrest clinic in Norfolk, Virginia ablaze. He was arrested while sleeping in his van a few blocks from the clinic when an alert patrol officer noticed the smell of kerosene.

May 12, 1984: Two men entered a Birmingham, Alabama clinic shortly after a lone woman opened the doors at 7:45 am. Forcing their way into the clinic, one of the men threatened the woman if she tried to prevent the attack while the other, wielding a sledgehammer, did between $7,500 and $8,000 of damage to suction equipment. The man who damaged the equipment was later identified as Father Edward Markley. Father Markley is a Benedictine Monk who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities". Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and second-degree burglary. His accomplice has never been identified. Following the Birmingham incident, Markley entered the Women's Community Health Center in Huntsville Alabama, assaulting at least three clinic workers. One of the workers, Kathryn Wood received back injuries and a broken neck vertebrae. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and three counts of third-degree assault and harassment in the Huntsville attack.

December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday." The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.

March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients' records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.

May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.

October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.

May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved. This was the second arson at the clinic.

September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.

June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.

December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic. Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.

May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.

January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.

January 1, 2012 Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to abortion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-abortion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.

April 1, 2012 A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.

April 11, 2013 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe.

Aug. 5, 2012. Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, The virulent, neocon-fueled Islamophobia that has plagued post-9/11 America has not only posed a threat to Muslims, it has had deadly consequences for people of other faiths, including Sikhs. Sikhs are not Muslims; the traditional Sikh attire, including their turbans, is different from traditional Sunni, Shiite or Sufi attire. But to a racist, a bearded Sikh looks like a Muslim. Only four days after 9/11, Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh immigrant from India who owned a gas station in Mesa, Arizona, was murdered by Frank Silva Roque, a racist who obviously mistook him for a Muslim. But Sodhi’s murder was not the last example of anti-Sikh violence in post-9/11 America. On Aug. 5, 2012, white supremacist Wade Michael Page used a semiautomatic weapon to murder six people during an attack on a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Page’s connection to the white supremacist movement was well-documented: he had been a member of the neo-Nazi rock bands End Empathy and Definite Hate. Attorney General Eric Holder described the attack as “an act of terrorism, an act of hatred.” It was good to see the nation’s top cop acknowledge that terrorist acts can, in fact, involve white males murdering people of color.

Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008. On July 27, 2008, Christian Right sympathizer Jim David Adkisson walked into the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee during a children’s play and began shooting people at random. Two were killed, while seven others were injured but survived. Adkisson said he was motivated by a hatred of liberals, Democrats and gays, and he considered neocon Bernard Goldberg’s book, 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America, his political manifesto. Adkisson (who pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree murder and is now serving life in prison without parole) was vehemently anti-abortion, but apparently committing an act of terrorism during a children’s play was good ol’ Republican family values. While Adkisson’s act of terrorism was reported on Fox News, it didn’t get the round-the-clock coverage an act of Islamic terrorism would have garnered.

The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996. Paul Jennings Hill is hardly the only Christian terrorist who has been praised by the Army of God; that organization has also praised Eric Rudolph, who is serving life without parole for a long list of terrorist attacks committed in the name of Christianity. Rudolph is best known for carrying out the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta during the 1996 Summer Olympics—a blast that killed spectator Alice Hawthorne and wounded 111 others. Hawthorne wasn’t the only person Rudolph murdered: his bombing of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama in 1998 caused the death of Robert Sanderson (a Birmingham police officer and part-time security guard) and caused nurse Emily Lyons to lose an eye. Rudolph’s other acts of Christian terrorism include bombing the Otherwise Lounge (a lesbian bar in Atlanta) in 1997 and an abortion clinic in an Atlanta suburb in 1997. Rudolph was no lone wolf: he was part of a terrorist movement that encouraged his violence. And the Army of God continues to exalt Rudolph as a brave Christian who is doing God’s work.

Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas, Feb. 18, 2010. When Joseph Stack flew a plane into the Echelon office complex (where an IRS office was located), Fox News’ coverage of the incident was calm and matter-of-fact. Republican Rep. Steve King of Iowa seemed to find the attack amusing and joked that it could have been avoided if the federal government had followed his advice and abolished the IRS. Nonetheless, there were two fatalities: Stack and IRS employee Vernon Hunter. Stack left behind a rambling suicide note outlining his reasons for the attack, which included a disdain for the IRS as well as total disgust with health insurance companies and bank bailouts. Some of the most insightful coverage of the incident came from Noam Chomsky, who said that while Stack had some legitimate grievances—millions of Americans shared his outrage over bank bailouts and the practices of health insurance companies—the way he expressed them was absolutely wrong.

The murder of Alan Berg, June 18, 1984. One of the most absurd claims some Republicans have made about white supremacists is that they are liberals and progressives. That claim is especially ludicrous in light of the terrorist killing of liberal Denver-based talk show host Alan Berg, a critic of white supremacists who was killed with an automatic weapon on June 18, 1984. The killing was linked to members of the Order, a white supremacist group that had marked Berg for death. Order members David Lane (a former Ku Klux Klan member who had also been active in the Aryan Nations) and Bruce Pierce were both convicted in federal court on charges of racketeering, conspiracy and violating Berg’s civil rights and given what amounted to life sentences.
Robert Matthews, who founded the Order, got that name from a fictional group in white supremacist William Luther Pierce’s anti-Semitic 1978 novel, The Turner Diaries—a book Timothy McVeigh was quite fond of. The novel’s fictional account of the destruction of a government building has been described as the inspiration for the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995.

Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing, April 19, 1995.Neocons and Republicans grow angry and uncomfortable whenever Timothy McVeigh is cited as an example of a non-Islamic terrorist. Pointing out that a non-Muslim white male carried out an attack as vicious and deadly as the Oklahoma City bombing doesn’t fit into their narrative that only Muslims and people of color are capable of carrying out terrorist attacks. Neocons will claim that bringing up McVeigh’s name during a discussion of terrorism is a “red herring” that distracts us from fighting radical Islamists, but that downplays the cruel, destructive nature of the attack.
Prior to the al-Qaeda attacks of 9/11, the Oklahoma City bombing McVeigh orchestrated was the most deadly terrorist attack in U.S. history: 168 people were killed and more than 600 were injured. When McVeigh drove a truck filled with explosives into the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, his goal was to kill as many people as possible. Clearly, McVeigh was not motivated by radical Islam; rather, he was motivated by an extreme hatred for the U.S. government and saw the attack as revenge for the Ruby Ridge incident of 1992 and the Waco Siege in 1993. He had white supremacist leanings as well (when he was in the U.S. Army, McVeigh was reprimanded for wearing a “white power” T-shirt he had bought at a KKK demonstration). McVeigh was executed on June 11, 2001. He should have served life without parole instead, as a living reminder of the type of viciousness the extreme right is capable of.
 
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GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,528
605
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Time to find all of the radical sects and wipe them off the face of the earth.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
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Boy, you really are bending over backward in this equivalance attempt. More violence was done in 1 day of the Furguson protests, than in 10 years of abortion clinic attacks.

Meanwhile, anyone with a brain knows killing 12 people for drawing a picture of your prophet is off the goddamned charts compared to anti-abortion violence, or the Furguson violence.

That's kind of arbitary isn't it? Why is your judgment any better than theirs in matters of reason to kill someone. I would offer that only self-defense is a reason to kill someone. Somebody carrying out abortions affects me just as much as drawing a picture of a prophet. In order to make it matter to you you need to go through an extensive rationalization process which makes it extremely arbitrary and hold no real value.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
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Well that would suck if we lived in the days of the Inquisition.

Absolutely. I think the problem is much of the world is still stuck in a machine without science.

There's a lot of regimes today that would be terrible to be under. For a multitude of reasons.
 

f1sherman

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2011
2,243
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It's foolish to project your values onto other cultures. It's foolish to think "I would never do such a thing. That's just barbaric." Then go around thinking everybody else is like you, and therefore, will respect the same values that you cherish. That's where the error is. They invite these people in with open arms while insulting their religious figures.

The only error is you rationalizing and humanizing the acts of few madmen.

French journalist did not attend the fucking Hajj in fucking Mecca, but instead they did their work in Paris, France.
Political and religious satire has been a part of Western civilization for several centuries.
Projecting your own values in your own country is ANYTHING but foolish.

Other than that, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I prefered if you were trolling, but apparently you feel like you have something of value to add to the discussion.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
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This story must be fake. France has strict laws on gun and ammo ownership.
So unless gun violence is reduced to zero, strict laws on gun and ammo ownership are a failure?

And by similar reasoning, laws requiring seat belt use are a failure, because 20,000 to 30,000 seat-belt-wearing people still die every year in traffic accidents. Is this what you think?
 

PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
1,848
13
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Why do they personally have to take to the streets to personally denounce the violence? The peaceful ones are not responsible for the nuts. Just like people protesting police brutality are not responsible for the nut that assassinated the police officers, nor are the anti-choice protesters responsible for the actions of anti-choice terrorists, nor are peaceful Christians responsible for acts of terrorism done by people that also claim to be Christians.

These are their kids, brought up in their homes, taught by their Imams. We can teach and promote tolerance and freedom in schools (and we do), but that doesn't help when they radicalize outside of the community of the majority.

Any study on the attitudes towards freedom of speech shows a large portion (if not a majority) of muslims disapproving, as long as their ridiculous faith is not "respected". You think it's a coincidence these attacks are carried out in the name of Islam over and over and over again?


When it's your family or your community, you ARE responsible, maybe not in a legal sense, but in a moral sense.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,407
10,716
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People kill people.

Guns don't do it, government doesn't do it, religion doesn't do it. People do.

We try and label them in order to find a way to separate them from us. Oh sure Americans killed around 1mil in vietnam, but they were COMMUNISTS. Oh this mass murderer HAD A GUN, oh these ISLAMIC extremists beheaded someone in the street. This DRUG cartel beheaded a rat.

Common thread between them all? You guessed it. People.

Maybe, correctly, this is your way of telling us not every Muslim is to blame. I support this notion and seek to highlight and empower that very fact. People on the street need to know Muslims who stand with us and not with the terrorists.

Failing to combat the public image that Islam = Terror only makes matters worse.
 

PlanetJosh

Golden Member
May 6, 2013
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Masked gunmen ...
Masked gunpersons. The media is all for freedom of expression so why does the media restrict the principle of equal opportunity with phrases that omit women from being some of the terrorists? Yeah gunmen is a figure of speech but it still can imply that women can't be capable of being terrorists enemies too. I'm not female btw.
 
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CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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I think it was pretty well known back in the day when they ran this cartoon that doing so would put a bulls-eye on their back. They ran it anyways. They didn't care. That is arrogance. We cry for tolerance, but we aren't tolerant ourselves. Their government also didn't do anything to help protect these people as I'm sure they still to this day import Muslims by the boatload daily.

No different than the United States taking in all these Somali's in Minneapolis. The government encourages this immigration, pays for it, gives them citizenship, drivers license, free homes. Then we cry foul when something bad happens. It's embarrassing to live in the western world. We are just that stupid.

I really have no sympathy for either side.

You call it arrogance, I call it Liberty.

The rest I agree with.
 
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