10+ dead during shooting at the paper that ran Muhammad cartoon

[DrunkenSano]

France has a hell of a lot of Muslims, the vast majority of whom are not murderous assholes. Punish the murderers, not the innocent.

The vast majority doesn't seem to be doing anything to help their image either, so at this point it almost looks like silent approval. There should be loud sermons at their temples denouncing these actions, multiple articles around the world from their religious leaders slamming these extremists and also calling out to all Muslims to respect freedom and equality. Don't see that happening though.

 

[bshole]

The worst part of this is that it will probably be somewhat effective. It is one of the surest ways to muzzle free speech on an international scale.

 

[GTaudiophile]

So the WH is not ready to call it an act of terror???

 

[Kadarin]

So the WH is not ready to call it an act of terror???

"Workplace violence"?

 

[DrunkenSano]

Obama is still looking for his balls.

 

[Atreus21]

So the WH is not ready to call it an act of terror???

Well, there's hope. Maybe the perps were republicans.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'm sorry to say that I absolutely support freedom of the press and the 1st amendment. But just because you have that freedom doesn't mean you should be irresponsible with it either. Just look. There was nothing positive about them releasing their Muhammad cartoons. What they were trying to prove is yes we can do it, and no you don't scare us. They knew very well they could be attacked. They were told they would be attacked. Now a few years later. They were attacked, and were slaughtered. I guess that is the price they pay for their irresponsible use of their freedoms. Yes that is arrogance. They were free to offend. They offended. That freedom cost them their lives. That's the gamble they took.

What you're advocating is not freedom of speech or the first amendment. It is cowardice and advocating that we suppress views which might offend others. In a civilized society (of which these animals know nothing about), the exchange of ideas and discussion/debate of ideas is how society improves and advances. Many of those ideas are distasteful or at least at the time, were. For example, practices like slavery may not have ended as soon as it did if not for the debate of these ideas.

You have the freedom to speak freely, but you do not have the freedom to NOT be offended. Time for these barbaric cavemen to leave the 11th century and join the 21st century or die.

I see what you are saying, "touching the hornets nest" and all, but I think you extend it too far. I certainly feel bad for those folks that were killed and they absolutely had the right to publish whatever they wanted. The cowards that came in strapped with guns and murdered unarmed people sitting in office chairs are reprehensible. Being offended by a cartoon and mass murder are in a completely different league.

Having no sympathy for people who exercise their freedoms and then are mass murdered by lawlessness seems like a strange thing to admit.

This. These animals are puny cowards, attacking unarmed cartoonists because they ridiculed their sky fairy and his prophet. Fuck them.

 

[brandonb]

So it's okay to take out Bill Maher then?

I wouldn't cry over it if it occurred. I think he is a douche.

As a side note: I do not approve of the terror attacks. I do not like the fact that these people were gunned down. I do not think journalists should ever be a target. Just like I don't think clergy should ever be a target. Nor innocent babies. Hell, even combatants/military who are wounded should not be targets. I really feel bad when I seen the French police man killed by a gunman after he was down and wounded and pleading for his life and no longer a threat.

But...

That's just me.

Not everybody thinks like me.

Some people think differently than I do.

It's foolish to project your values onto other cultures. It's foolish to think "I would never do such a thing. That's just barbaric." Then go around thinking everybody else is like you, and therefore, will respect the same values that you cherish. That's where the error is. They invite these people in with open arms while insulting their religious figures. It's foolish to think these people are going to respect freedom of the press just because you and I respect it and believe will do nothing in return.

And to purposely ignite their hatred while you are surrounded by them? It would be no different than walking into a peaceful protest in Ferguson wearing a "George Zimmerman - Good shot" T-shirt or something as ridiculous as that. Freedom of speech you cry! We'll see how peaceful that protest will be. Who's fault would that be? The person wearing the T-shirt, or the mob that descents upon the man who wore that t-shirt? Both are equally responsible. I wouldn't have sympathy for either there as well.

People are welcome to call me a troll if they desire. I'm ok with it.

 

[Subyman]

The vast majority doesn't seem to be doing anything to help their image either, so at this point it almost looks like silent approval. There should be loud sermons at their temples denouncing these actions, multiple articles around the world from their religious leaders slamming these extremists and also calling out to all Muslims to respect freedom and equality. Don't see that happening though.

I've heard from Muslims that the reason this doesn't happen widely is because the normal Muslim has nothing to apologize for. Most Muslims attending normal mosques don't need to be told by their leaders that they shouldn't bomb people or murder, because they are just normal people enjoying life. Its the few radical sects that are doing this, not your everyday Muslim. The radicals don't give a shit about the random muslim leader that speaks out. Just like a christian fanatic doesn't care what Pat Robertson has to say.

 

[Kadarin]

The vast majority doesn't seem to be doing anything to help their image either, so at this point it almost looks like silent approval. There should be loud sermons at their temples denouncing these actions, multiple articles around the world from their religious leaders slamming these extremists and also calling out to all Muslims to respect freedom and equality. Don't see that happening though.

The vast majority of peaceful Muslims who know about this attack will think to themselves that the victims insulted the Prophet, so therefore deserved it.

The values of Islam and those of Western society are simply not compatible. It's time our leaders stop hiding behind the banner of multiculturalism and realize this.

 

[Kadarin]

I've heard from Muslims that the reason this doesn't happen widely is because the normal Muslim has nothing to apologize for. Most Muslims attending normal mosques don't need to be told by their leaders that they shouldn't bomb people or murder, because they are just normal people enjoying life. Its the few radical sects that are doing this, not your everyday Muslim. The radicals don't give a shit about the random muslim leader that speaks out. Just like a christian fanatic doesn't care what Pat Robertson has to say.

There seem to be an awful lot of "a few radical sects" around the world.

 

[maddogchen]

meanwhile.....Time to crack down on 'Islamophobia', Turkey's Erdogan tells EU

 

[Subyman]

There seem to be an awful lot of "a few radical sects" around the world.

Compared to the amount of normal Muslims, hell yeah.

 

[Jaskalas]

"We have avenged the Prophet!"

So that's their religion. The gunmen I mean, they believe blood is the honor their value system demands. They have made their choice clear. Where does the world population stand? Where do French Muslims stand? The men associated with the gunmen? Their families?

At some point between global generalization, and direct familiar ties we will find men of equal or similar views. That Islam = terrorism as carried out by these gunmen.

It should be the intent of the civilized world to find where that line is drawn, to stand shoulder to shoulder with Muslims on our side to condemn the gunmen and their mission. To work together for peace. To condemn and isolate those on the other side of the line.

Peace and active condemnation and rejection of violence is not mutually exclusive. Action must be taken to separate Islam from these gunmen, and to reject those who remain steadfast on the side of terrorism.

 

[Belegost]

I'm sorry to say that I absolutely support freedom of the press and the 1st amendment. But just because you have that freedom doesn't mean you should be irresponsible with it either. Just look. There was nothing positive about them releasing their Muhammad cartoons. What they were trying to prove is yes we can do it, and no you don't scare us. They knew very well they could be attacked. They were told they would be attacked. Now a few years later. They were attacked, and were slaughtered. I guess that is the price they pay for their irresponsible use of their freedoms. Yes that is arrogance. They were free to offend. They offended. That freedom cost them their lives. That's the gamble they took.

Yep. No sympathy.

Perhaps you're also on the side that thinks a woman wearing a skirt above her knees is "asking for it?"

You seem to want to live in a world where you can only speak that which does not offend those who are willing to kill over words. Well, I don't. Such a world leads to narrow, bland, thinking and the enslavement of the mind to those inclined to barbarism. It is the antithesis of rational, peaceful, civilization.

Those who would respond to words with violence are criminals, nothing more or less, and those who they act against are victims of their crime to be treated appropriately. I have great sympathy for the families who lost fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and children in this vile act.

I also hope that others in journalism take this as a rally point to speak out against violence and intolerance, to fight against those who would use murder and terror to silence their critics. However, I fear that the modern "journalism" businesses will shrink back, and cower behind flimsy walls of rationalization and spew out mealy, bland, blocks of text that expend great effort to say nothing of substance.

 

[NTMBK]

meanwhile.....Time to crack down on 'Islamophobia', Turkey's Erdogan tells EU

Well yeah, have you seen the state of this thread? :whiste:

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I wanted to read some terrifically stupid shit today. I was not disappointed.

 

[Slew Foot]

thats what happens when you let muslims in. expect most of europe to end up like this.

 

[Blanky]

I'm sorry to say that I absolutely support freedom of the press and the 1st amendment. But just because you have that freedom doesn't mean you should be irresponsible with it either. Just look. There was nothing positive about them releasing their Muhammad cartoons. What they were trying to prove is yes we can do it, and no you don't scare us. They knew very well they could be attacked. They were told they would be attacked. Now a few years later. They were attacked, and were slaughtered. I guess that is the price they pay for their irresponsible use of their freedoms. Yes that is arrogance. They were free to offend. They offended. That freedom cost them their lives. That's the gamble they took.

Yep. No sympathy.

Your entire post conflicts perfectly with your first sentence. You cannot support freedom of press and the 1st if you have no sympathy for a person who is killed over what they say.

I don't like it when you use the word "gamble". Now if you use it and I attack you do you think you deserve no sympathy just because you were warned?

Most news articles the world over offend somebody. You seem to hold no sympathy for a person who is killed over something they say.

Like I said: you do not support freedom of the press or the 1st, not based on what you wrote.

 

[himkhan]

Religion of peace.

Ahh. So guns don't kill people but religions do. Must suck to be such idiotic bigot.

 

[Thebobo]

We're talking about what is happening today, right now. Thats the subject of this thread.

Its been a long time since anyone has bombed a clinic.

Oh yea definitely not like the 90s, but still.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#Murders

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[29]

December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana.]

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire.

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building.

May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[40]

December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[41][42]

January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness[43] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[44]

January 1, 2012 Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building.

April 1, 2012 A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.

April 11, 2013 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe

 

[himkhan]

Obama is still looking for his balls.

He might start by looking in your mouth. What would Bush do? Start a war with France? YAFI

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

So the WH is not ready to call it an act of terror???

Um - they already have. From http://news.yahoo.com/obama-condemns-horrific-attack-french-newspaper-150321545.html -

Obama condemns 'horrific' attack on French newspaper

24 minutes ago


Washington (AFP) - US President Barack Obama condemned the "horrific" assault on a French satirical newspaper that left 12 dead Wednesday, calling it a terrorist attack on America's "oldest ally" and pledging assistance.

"We are in touch with French officials and I have directed my administration to provide any assistance needed to help bring these terrorists to justice," Obama said.

Speaking in French, US Secretary of State John Kerry, who is a frequent visitor to Paris on his diplomatic travels, said he wanted to address all French people directly about the "murderous attack" to say "All Americans stand by your side."

The "pen is an instrument of freedom, not fear," Kerry said.

"Free expression and a free press are core values... principles that can be attacked but never eradicated."

Gunmen shouting Islamist slogans stormed the offices of the Charlie Hebdo newspaper in Paris, armed with an AK-47 assault rifle and a grenade launcher. The weekly's editor Stephane Charbonnier, and three renowned cartoonists were among those killed, officials said.

Charlie Hebdo had attracted controversy by publishing satirical cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.

"I strongly condemn the horrific shooting at the offices of Charlie Hebdo magazine in Paris that has reportedly killed 12 people," Obama said.

The US president praised France as a partner "in the fight against terrorists who threaten our shared security and the world."

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this terrorist attack and the people of France at this difficult time," he said.

"Time and again, the French people have stood up for the universal values that generations of our people have defended. "France, and the great city of Paris where this outrageous attack took place, offer the world a timeless example that will endure well beyond the hateful vision of these killers."

Obama and Kerry were to meet on Wednesday, the White House said. Vice President Joe Biden was also to attend.

* * *

Nice try to turn this into an anti-Obama discussion, though. I tip my hat to your opportunism.

 

[Subyman]

Um - they already have. From http://news.yahoo.com/obama-condemns-horrific-attack-french-newspaper-150321545.html -

That article was published after he asked the question.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

That article was published after he asked the question.

Nevertheless, his "question" was a naked attempt to exploit a tragedy with false innuendo about the President.