10+ dead during shooting at the paper that ran Muhammad cartoon

[Retro Rob]

You guys are not thinking clearly about this issue. No, it very much is about freedom of speech. Who are you to say what speech is "wise" and what speech isn't? Why should someone drawing a cartoon have to fear for his/her life? Over the centuries, the Catholic Church (for example) deemed certain speech or teachings "unwise" (to use your words). Should Galileo, Bruno, and others simply have said "Ok, you win, I'll stop"? No.

Ok, were Bruno etc, making fun of and mocking the Pope?

Apples to Asteroids.

Get your emotions out of this.

Political cartoons are published on a daily basis. Should we be afraid that Obama, Pelosi, Boehner, McConnell, or whomever is depicted will attack us in a blind rage and therefore, not publish it?

Apples to Asteroids.

Should we stop because "it's mean"? These guys likely didn't publish Mohamed cartoons to offend Muslims.

No one said that they did, but they sure did know that it would be offensive, but didn't care.

First it will be "ban all depictions of Mohamed." Next will be "our shoppers shop at your stores and are offended by the presence of alcohol and pork." What's next? Don't think it will happen? Look at Britain and the issues they're having.

Now you're jumping to irrational "slipperly slope" type of logical fallacies. You're taking an extremist view of this yourself.

Calm down...no one has said anything about limiting free speech. But keep packing that man with all the straw you want.

All we're saying is that it may be stupid to do things that you KNOW provoke a group of stupid, irrational, murderous fools to come and get violent.

I wouldn't poke a sleeping bear, and after I'm attack defend my right to do it. You can walk into a room full of blacks and call them the "N" word. Is that smart? No.

Just...look at this logically and not emotionally.

 

[Brainonska511]

im gist sayin, the rest of us have lives to lead and shouldnt have to deal with the consequences of dudes like u doing sheet like that gist so u can sell magazines. these people who think this and "the interview" are free speech issues are morons. you *may* have the right to go up to black people with a bull horn and call them the n word, but why the heck should u? maybe u shouldnt cuz homie might pull a gun on u and randomly start shooting the rest of us. were these stupid cartoons worth 12 lives? i think not

So you should self-censor yourself because other people can't follow the law about not killing? Great logic there, chief.

People don't have the right to not be offended. If they get offended, then they can *speak out* about what they find offensive. Now, in your secondexample, which you can almost read through your shitty writing - yes, that would be a bad idea. Same as carrying around a sign saying how you're a Nazi, or walking around a city, flashing your cash in the projects, or any number of things that generally go against common sense. However, I don't see where artwork like cartoons or movies would fall into those 'bad ideas'.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

im gist sayin, the rest of us have lives to lead and shouldnt have to deal with the consequences of dudes like u doing sheet like that gist so u can sell magazines. these people who think this and "the interview" are free speech issues are morons. you *may* have the right to go up to black people with a bull horn and call them the n word, but why the heck should u? maybe u shouldnt cuz homie might pull a gun on u and randomly start shooting the rest of us. were these stupid cartoons worth 12 lives? i think not

You're not getting it. I don't know how much clearer I can make this. Whether or not I choose to go call black people the N word, people living in trailer parks PWT, or draw Mohamed pictures isn't the point at all. What IS the point is that I should have the right to free speech WITHOUT fearing for my life. While certainly discretion is the better part of valor, if you start acceding to every group's hurt feelings, the issue that will eventually happen is that free speech is TRULY curtailed and things that need to be said CAN'T be said.

Again, this stealth attempt to partially assign blame to the journalists is ridiculous. No sane, modern-thinking people would kill someone for something like this. Do you know what I do if I am offended by what someone says, prints, etc? I turn the channel or put the book down.

 

[Orignal Earl]

You're a coward.

Outside of posting anonymously on a tech message board,what are you doing?
You should at least give us a pic of you with your Mo t-shirt on and name and address to show your commitment to the cause

These monsters aren't deserving of respect, they are deserving of a painful death.

France doesn't follow the medieval and barbaric practice of execution anymore

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Ok, were Bruno etc, making fun of and mocking the Pope?

Apples to Asteroids.

Get your emotions out of this.

Are you serious? I want you to think about what Galileo, Bruno, and others did for a moment.

Now you're jumping to irrational "slipperly slope" type of logical fallacies. You're taking an extremist view of this yourself.

Calm down...no one has said anything about limiting free speech. But keep packing that man with all the straw you want.

All we're saying is that it may be stupid to do things that you KNOW provoke a group of stupid, irrational, murderous fools to come and get violent.

I wouldn't poke a sleeping bear, and after I'm attack defend my right to do it. You can walk into a room full of blacks and call them the "N" word. Is that smart? No.

Just...look at this logically and not emotionally.

It is not an irrational belief - this really IS a slippery slope situation.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

France doesn't follow the medieval and barbaric practice of execution anymore

Yes, I know that. Unfortunate in this particular case.

 

[PokerGuy]

im gist sayin, the rest of us have lives to lead and shouldnt have to deal with the consequences of dudes like u doing sheet like that gist so u can sell magazines. these people who think this and "the interview" are free speech issues are morons.

No, it is exactly a free speech issue. Yes, you do have to "deal with the consequences" of someone exercising their right to free speech, because that's what it means to be part of a (relatively) free society.

The sick animals that react to perceived offense with violence are the problem, not those simply speaking their mind or expressing some idea.

 

[michal1980]

well yes... A REALLY SMALL PERCENTAGE (even tiny I would assume) is WILLING TO DIE for their retarded beliefs

thats not what the poster was saying.

 

[PokerGuy]

It is not an irrational belief - this really IS a slippery slope situation.

Absolutely, and there is already ample evidence of this coming to fruition.

 

[Retro Rob]

Are you serious? I want you to think about what Galileo, Bruno, and others did for a moment.



It is not an irrational belief - this really IS a slippery slope situation.

Absolutely, and there is already ample evidence of this coming to fruition.

OK, well...what do you all suggest? There can only be one of two solutions: Ban religion (or serverly limit it to weed out potential extremists which could lead to a war of some type), or deal with them killing people and kill them in return.

Either way, blood is gonna be shed, and people will needlessly die.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yes, I know that. Unfortunate in this particular case.

Well no... it's considered a good thing that France has civilized beyond the medieval and barbaric custom of execution
You may enjoy and support the practice, but the civilized world has moved beyond that

 

[Whiskey16]

I wonder if this is a long range goal of terrorists. It was with Al Qaeda before and it got the US involved in two wars and that damned Patriot Act.

Yes, it absolutely is such a method to help achieve a political strategic goal in the Middle East.

Tools are being externally used to whip up the bigotry and xenophobic hatred of more numerous tools. All to demonstrate a political strength for more localised intentions.

The generic fear and hatred, as commonly expressed in this forum, helps to isolate and spread fear against an identifiable group. While the terrorism (mostly applied in Syria, Iraq, and then separately into Afghanistan and Pakistan) of an extremely small minority returns a disproportionate effect beyond that their numbers should justify, by also intimidating and spreading fear amongst their own population.

The relatively few organised terrorist acts in the West can help more regional political goals. The many xenophobic and bigoted tools in this forum help play into that game.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Well no... it's considered a good thing that France has civilized beyond the medieval and barbaric custom of execution
You may enjoy and support the practice, but the civilized world has moved beyond that

We'll just house the animals with you instead.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

OK, well...what do you all suggest? There can only be one of two solutions: Ban religion (or serverly limit it to weed out potential extremists which could lead to a war of some type), or deal with them killing people and kill them in return.

Either way, blood is gonna be shed, and people will needlessly die.

What do I suggest? How about people grow the fuck up and ignore what other people say if they're offended or don't like it? How about if these people don't like the rules or laws of the land, they move to where they're more to their liking? How about if a group starts issuing death threats, the members are arrested and deported?

What is YOUR suggestion? Just to brand things like Mohamed cartoons as "hate speech" or something similarly lame?

 

[Orignal Earl]

We'll just house the animals with you instead.

Oh, don't worry.. France is not going to have to house them in our homes

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Oh, don't worry.. France is not going to have to house them in our homes

I was joking, of course.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Islamic hate preacher who basically approved the attacks in Paris and said freedom of speech doesn't cover insulting Islam because Islam is more important than freedom.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Islamic hate preacher who basically approved the attacks in Paris and said freedom of speech doesn't cover insulting Islam because Islam is more important than freedom.

Yes, Anjem Choudary is a moron and is one of those folks I mentioned above who needs to be deported.

 

[soulcougher73]

Easist thing to do is to export and not allow people of middle eastern decent to leave that region until they get their shit together. If it takes killing and wars among themselves so be it. They are big boys they can figure this out themselves. No need to drag the rest of the civilized world into their world.

I wonder why the T-Rex's keep eatting all the cows? Somethings are just not compatible.

 

[Retro Rob]

What do I suggest? How about people grow the fuck up and ignore what other people say if they're offended or don't like it? How about if these people don't like the rules or laws of the land, they move to where they're more to their liking? How about if a group starts issuing death threats, the members are arrested and deported?

I asked for a realistic suggestion...not an idealisitic one. Sure, ignore what people say...in your fantasy world, that's practical.

But it begs the question: Why are YOU getting so offended at my simple "wise use of speech" suggestion? If that's enough to rattle your cages, then you should clearly see why your suggestions is unrealistic to apply to others.

What is YOUR suggestion? Just to brand things like Mohamed cartoons as "hate speech" or something similarly lame?

Who said that? I didn't.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I asked for a realistic suggestion...not an idealisitic one. Sure, ignore what people say...in your fantasy world, that's practical.

But it begs the question: Why are YOU getting so offended at a simple suggestion? If that's enough to rattle your cages, then you should clearly see why your suggestions is unrealistic to apply to others.

I get offended any time someone suggests or advocates placing restrictions on my rights when the sole reason is to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

Who said that? I didn't.

I was just throwing one out. What is your suggestion?

 

[Blanky]

Outside of posting anonymously on a tech message board,what are you doing?
You should at least give us a pic of you with your Mo t-shirt on and name and address to show your commitment to the cause

This forum is 99% consisting of anonymous people who don't post their pics and addresses. What in the world would be gained by posting one's private details?

I didn't realize that in the western world we were still at the point where freedom of the press and of speech is a "cause", as you so put it.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yes, Anjem Choudary is a moron and is one of those folks I mentioned above who needs to be deported.

Deported to where? He was born in the UK

Born in the UK in 1967, Anjem Choudary is the son of a Welling market trader and is of Pakistani descent.[1][2] He attended Mulgrave Primary School, in Woolwich.[3] He enrolled as a medical student at the University of Southampton, where he was known as Andy, but after excessive partying, failed his first-year exams. Responding to claims that he was a "party animal" who joined his friends in "getting stoned", in 2014 Choudary commented "I admit that I wasn't always practising... I committed many mistakes in my life."[3][4] He switched to law and spent his final year as a legal student (1990–1991) at Guildford, before moving to London to teach English as a second language. He became a lawyer after he found work at a legal firm and completed his legal qualifications.[5] Choudary became the chairman of the Society of Muslim Lawyers, but was removed from the roll of solicitors (the official register of legal practitioners) in 2002.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anjem_Choudary

It looks like a lot of his followers are from Scotland and Ireland

 

[TechBoyJK]

Well no... it's considered a good thing that France has civilized beyond the medieval and barbaric custom of execution
You may enjoy and support the practice, but the civilized world has moved beyond that

Some people really just need to die. Execution is ok in some instances.

Actually, I'll go as far as to say execution, in some instances, is the smart thing to do.

 

[Retro Rob]

I get offended any time someone suggests or advocates placing restrictions on my rights when the sole reason is to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

Again, no one said you cannot make fun of Islam/religion, etc. But just because you can do something, doesn't make it right, or mean you should.

Like I said, yep...I can walk past a goup of blacks and say the "N"-word. Can I legally do that? Yep. Should I? Nope!

I even think you agree that its stupid to do that...its not only offensive to blacks, but down right provacative.

But you don't apply that same logic to a newspaper doing that to Islamic extremists. Because you're anti-religion, and biased, and you support making fun of religion, but you don't support making fun of blacks.

That makes you a hypocrite.

What is your suggestion?

To be smart and discretionary in your use of free speech, and to jail/kill those who try to murder because they "take offense".