1 in 8 "Americans" recieve food stamps. Outrageous!

[sportage]

The real issue here is that 1 in 8 (probably a lot more) of American's "qualify" for food stamps. Why the hell is THAT? Im saying that 1 in 8 American's, working American's, or the typical middle class, can no longer make it on wages earned. That and there is the problem. For a full time worker at Walmart to qualify for food stamps is the modern American tragedy.

 

[0marTheZealot]

The real issue here is that 1 in 8 (probably a lot more) of American's "qualify" for food stamps. Why the hell is THAT? Im saying that 1 in 8 American's, working American's, or the typical middle class, can no longer make it on wages earned. That and there is the problem. For a full time worker at Walmart to qualify for food stamps is the modern American tragedy.

Exactly, this is the tragedy of what's happened in America. First off, very few people actually want to be continually on welfare/food stamps. Secondly, it's not as easy as "get a job lazy ass". People want to work, but there aren't jobs in many places. Remember, right now, there is at least a 10% unemployment rate. It's probably closer to 15% when you factor in under-employed and marginally employed.

Are there people who abuse the system? Yes. Are there people who could make better choices when it comes to food? Yes. Should we shut down the entire food stamp program because of them? Emphatically no. I'm all for restrictions on food stamp use, so that they are only used for nutritious food, not potato chips and beer. But to cut the program out completely? That just does not make sense.

Finally, people are posting absurd notions about food. Simply put, you cannot eat on $500 a year. It's probably closer to a minimum of $1500 a year for a decently balanced diet. And that's the bare minimum for a single person. If we budget for the bare minimum, all that will do is encourage people to eat unhealthy (since unhealthy food is cheaper by far), which exacerbates our health care problems.

(Double) Finally, Hacp is a tool who's still on mommy and daddy's dime. He's a student working a minimum wage job. Not only is he on mommy and daddy's dime, he's probably on the government dime as well. So yea, he's a complete tool.

 

[blackangst1]

You might get close, but not for kids. Kids need milk, and milk is pretty expensive if you don't have cows (which take either extensive land or extensive feed.) Plus, teenagers eat a ton, it would be hard to properly feed a teenager for $10 a week at American prices unless you can grow (and preserve) a lot of your own food. Places where people live much more cheaply tend to have cheap local products (usually cereals) that form the bulk of their diets.

I was raised with little meat, maybe hamburger steak or chicken (extra roosters or hens that no longer lay) once a week and a ham or a turkey on holidays. Protein came mostly from eggs and beans; we ate pinto beans, cornbread, and fried potatoes at least two or three times a week, with raw milk and tea, and garden vegetables and greens. Go back a generation and my mother ate those same things fourteen meals a week, with some extra things added for Saturday and Sunday. Go back a few more generations and breads might make up 75% of the diet. In fact, a lot of the world still lives at that standard, with bread or rice at every meal. I'd be willing to bet lots of poor people today feed their children similar to my diet growing up. I'd be comfortable with food stamp people living at that level, but I'd guess most of them don't live a whole lot better right now. Probably the ones we notice are the ones scamming the system, buying steaks and such.

Also, most welfare mothers are not particularly bright or motivated and probably don't have the management and food preparation skills needed to maximize their budgets and nutrition, nor any way to get those skills. Nor, probably, do they have any desire for them. Instead they probably cook the things their mothers cooked, plus the things their kids want. So yeah, it's a shame that 1 in 8 Americans are on food stamps, but other than improving the economy (and reducing the share of it that government consumes) I don't see much alternative. As our manufacturing gets shipped offshore and our illegal population swells, there are going to be way more people than jobs in any unskilled field, so our spread between skilled workers and the unskilled poor is going to continue growing. Probably subsidizing these poor people does less damage overall than using government to artificially flatten the wage scale.

Not to derail the thread or get into an entirely different conversation, but humans dont "need" milk past about 18 mos old. Old wives tale.

 

[werepossum]

Not to derail the thread or get into an entirely different conversation, but humans dont "need" milk past about 18 mos old. Old wives tale.

Possibly, but I'm not going to be the one to suggest to food stamp people that their kids should replace milk with water or Kool-Aid so that I don't have to pay for it. Steaks, yes. Milk, no.

 

[blackangst1]

The real issue here is that 1 in 8 (probably a lot more) of American's "qualify" for food stamps. Why the hell is THAT? Im saying that 1 in 8 American's, working American's, or the typical middle class, can no longer make it on wages earned. That and there is the problem. For a full time worker at Walmart to qualify for food stamps is the modern American tragedy.

I dunno. The thing about civilizations is wealth flutuates, as does the poor. A small percentage of people are actually "poor" cradle to grave. That said, there is no system on the planet that eliminates the poor. None. There are features of some political models that can reduce or increase the poor, but the poor class will always be. Also in this discussion, which has been brought up but largely ignored, is what constitutes poor? How do you define it? We define it (since the Johnson admninistration's beginning of the "war on poverty in 1964) as " lacking the resources to meet the basic needs for healthy living; having insufficient income to provide the food, shelter and clothing needed to preserve health". Have you ever heard of the national economy food plan? Thats what the government uses to determine poverty. The formula is three times this cost. (If you want details I suggest you start on the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#two_official_measures_of_poverty).

Now lets throw in everyone's dream. The nation as a whole has an average income of $80,000/year, minimum wage is $16/hr, etc. What this does is raise the bar for what poverty (in the USA anyway) actually IS. So now, for a family of 4 instead of $22,000 being the poverty line, now it's $35,000. But there will always be poor, based on what society defines as poor. I can tell you this for a fact (as others have said): our poor compare to middle class in most of the rest of world, and some qualify as rich. I know, Ive got 13 countries stamped in my passport and I have seen it firsthand.

All of this leads to one thing: poor is subjective.

 

[blackangst1]

Possibly, but I'm not going to be the one to suggest to food stamp people that their kids should replace milk with water or Kool-Aid so that I don't have to pay for it. Steaks, yes. Milk, no.

No possibly about it. Its a medical fact.

And no, Im not advocating that either.

 

[piasabird]

Kids do not need milk. You have been brainwashed.

 

[stateofbeasley]

Exactly, this is the tragedy of what's happened in America. First off, very few people actually want to be continually on welfare/food stamps. Secondly, it's not as easy as "get a job lazy ass". People want to work, but there aren't jobs in many places. Remember, right now, there is at least a 10% unemployment rate. It's probably closer to 15% when you factor in under-employed and marginally employed.

U-6 is an astounding 17.5% for October 2009. New figures out tomorrow for November.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

I have friends with advanced degrees in Chemical Engineering, Law, and Finance who are unemployed and can't find anything. This whole "get a job" mentality doesn't work when there's systemic failure.

(Double) Finally, Hacp is a tool who's still on mommy and daddy's dime. He's a student working a minimum wage job. Not only is he on mommy and daddy's dime, he's probably on the government dime as well. So yea, he's a complete tool.

I think its unfair to bust him for being a student working a low wage job, which many of us (myself included) were at one point or another.

You can work a low wage job and still be informed about the issues.

However, it is perfectly fair to pummel Hacp mercilessly for making untrue or unreasonable statements, which he has done consistently throughout this thread. The ignorance of most of those on the conservative side on the issue of hunger is shameful.

 

[ebaycj]

I'm for the food stamp program. It's been in place for a long time and will be for the foreseeable future. It's not all a bed of roses however. Sometimes our tax dollars are used to buy drugs instead of food.

http://www.freep.com/article/200911...int-stores-bought-food-stamps-from-drug-users

The thing, I think, that is the biggest problem amongst republicans, is their view of corruption.

They are very aware that they live in a corrupt / imperfect world, when it comes to arguing things like the death penalty, national defense, gun regulation, etc.; Things that they support. However, It seems like when it comes to government programs/spending, all of a sudden the government is expected to execute everything 100% perfectly, and the corrupt world (as I mentioned above) becomes a perfect world where nobody is selfish and tries to scam the system. If there is even one tiny little seed of localized corruption, they act like the whole program is 100% corrupt, there is no benefit at all to said program, and it should, without a doubt, be completely shit-canned/thrown out and never thought about again.

For example, You posted an article about people selling/trading their food stamps for drugs (or drug money). What, would you estimate, is the percentage of food stamp recipients who have ever sold their food stamps at all? What percentage have sold their food stamps for drugs, specifically? Unless you can answer both of these questions with 100%, the program is doing some good to someone, somewhere. The goal at that point should be to make the program work better for more people, instead of getting rid of said program.

 

[werepossum]

U-6 is an astounding 17.5% for October 2009. New figures out tomorrow for November.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

I have friends with advanced degrees in Chemical Engineering, Law, and Finance who are unemployed and can't find anything. This whole "get a job" mentality doesn't work when there's systemic failure.



I think its unfair to bust him for being a student working a low wage job, which many of us (myself included) were at one point or another.

You can work a low wage job and still be informed about the issues.

However, it is perfectly fair to pummel Hacp mercilessly for making untrue or unreasonable statements, which he has done consistently throughout this thread. The ignorance of most of those on the conservative side on the issue of hunger is shameful.

There are jobs, though. WalMart and McDonald's and such are almost always hiring. Many janitorial services are hiring. Having an advanced degree in Chemical Engineering or Law or anything else is a wonderful thing; it does NOT make me obligated to support you if you can't find a job "in your field".

Ain't it funny how when U-3 was at four-something under Bush we saw so many mainstream media stories about the "real" unemployment rate was more like 10%? Now that U-6 is pushing eighteen under Obama we don't hear nearly as many stories even though it's as least as true today.

 

[stateofbeasley]

There are jobs, though. WalMart and McDonald's and such are almost always hiring. Many janitorial services are hiring. Having an advanced degree in Chemical Engineering or Law or anything else is a wonderful thing; it does NOT make me obligated to support you if you can't find a job "in your field".

Are you serious?

What kind of industry are you in, and how long have you been in the working world?

Believe me, some of my friends would take any job at this point. But if you're a 55 year old w' a PhD in EE, NOBODY is going to hire you at a fast food restaurant because you are "overqualified".

Hell, a lot of my friends applied for entry level jobs, only to be told that they are overqualified.

NPR has been talking a lot about the U-6 rate. It's a serious problem when a lot of educated workers are being underutilized.

This whole "I don't have an obligation to help anyone" is symptomatic of a selfish and narcissistic population. When there are systemic problems that disrupt the lives of others through no fault of their own, I think some understanding is in order.

 

[werepossum]

Engineering, and I'm 49. But I've also picked tomatoes, shoveled shit in barnyards, cleared land, strung fence, and a variety of other jobs. Assistant manager positions are fairly common, and WalMart for one loves older people. I don't mind helping people - although I could argue that "support me because I can't find the good job I trained for" is just as selfish and narcissistic - but I'd prefer to help someone who is helping themselves as well. I've been laid off - I did some AutoCAD programming, worked some at an Auto parts store, and did some farm work. I agree things are bad now, but there's always some unmet needs out there.

 

[Craig234]

Just another legal way of paying voters.

Gotta love the insane ideologues. Everything government does that benefits anyone - and the benefit of society is the purpose of government - fits your little ideological whining.

Did you go to public school? They were just 'buying your vote' obviously. Did they provide vaccine for swine flu? Buying votes.

You arent't criticizing them for bad government not heping people but rather criticing them for helping people, spinning it crazily.

The relevant issues of how assistance helps people get productive, much less the moral issue, is nowehre to be found in your blind, immoral, selfish ideology.

 

[Steeplerot]

That said, there is no system on the planet that eliminates the poor. None.

Wrong,
There are even countries today that have almost 0% unemployment and no homeless. Not going to find that in USA though.

 

[1prophet]

Wrong,
There are even countries today that have almost 0% unemployment and no homeless. Not going to find that in USA though.

You mean like Andorra? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate#cite_note-1

(click on Andorra in list)

Economy of Andorra
Tourism, the mainstay of Andorra's tiny, well-to-do economy, accounts for roughly 80% of GDP. An estimated 9 million tourists visit annually, attracted by Andorra's duty-free status and by its summer and winter resorts. Andorra's comparative advantage has recently eroded as the economies of adjoining France and Spain have been opened up, providing broader availability of goods and lower tariffs.

The banking sector, with its tax haven status, also contributes substantially to the economy. Agricultural production is limited—only 2% of the land is arable—and most food has to be imported. Some tobacco is grown locally. The principal livestock activity is domestic sheep raising. Manufacturing output consists mainly of cigarettes, cigars, and furniture. Andorra's natural resources include hydroelectric power, mineral water, timber, iron ore, and lead.[10]

Andorra is not a member of the European Union, but enjoys a special relationship with it, such as being treated as an EU member for trade in manufactured goods (no tariffs) and as a non-EU member for agricultural products. Andorra lacks a currency of its own and uses that of its two surrounding nations. Andorra used the French franc and the Spanish peseta until 1999 when both currencies were replaced by the EU's single currency, the euro. Coins and notes of both the franc and the peseta, however, remained legal tender in Andorra until 2002. Andorra is negotiating to issue its own euro coins.

Low taxes, tax haven for the rich, primarily relies on tourism, now that is a system we can all strive for,

or maybe you were thinking of that other tax haven for the rich, Monaco.

 

[ebaycj]

I can get boneless chicken breast for 89 cents a pound, I can get various different veggies and fruit 3 to 5 lbs for 99 cents and I can get rice 50lbs for 18 bucks. Hell you can get oatmeal cheap as fuck too. You don't need to eat a whole damn pound of chicken breast in 1 day, you don't need to eat 3 lbs of onions either, you don't need a whole lot of food dude. I think it can be done it would be hard but it can be done.

Can you do all of that at the grocery store that is closest to your house? (Since you are poor, you won't have a car to drive to the grocery store, nor money for gas).

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Kids do not need milk. You have been brainwashed.

They need the calcium that's in it, and a lot of it, and it's hard to get those amounts from other foods. Not to mention the vitamin D that's also in it, which happens to be the leading vitamin deficiency in the US.

 

[bfdd]

Can you do all of that at the grocery store that is closest to your house? (Since you are poor, you won't have a car to drive to the grocery store, nor money for gas).

atleast 2 stores I know of are within walking distance, but there's always the bus

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

atleast 2 stores I know of are within walking distance, but there's always the bus

Yea cause frozen food stays frozen well on an hour + bus ride. Clearly most (if any) of the hard assed people here ever had to live in a difficult situation. I was lucky, and I lived 3 blocks from the grocery store, but frozen items thawed quite a bit in that short walk, I could only imagine a long ride on a hot bus..

 

[L00PY]

The real issue here is that 1 in 8 (probably a lot more) of American's "qualify" for food stamps. Why the hell is THAT? Im saying that 1 in 8 American's, working American's, or the typical middle class, can no longer make it on wages earned. That and there is the problem. For a full time worker at Walmart to qualify for food stamps is the modern American tragedy.

I'm not a fan of Wal-mart but one site has the average full time Wal-mart Associate pegged at making an annual income of $19,165. That exceeds the Federal SNAP income requirements for one person. That also exceeds it for a two person household.

And for those too lazy to click links, and because even if it has already been posted it before, it bears repeating:

23. What are some characteristics of SNAP households?

Based on a study of data gathered in Fiscal Year 2006:

49 percent of all participants are children (18 or younger), and 61 percent of them live in single-parent households.

52 percent of SNAP households include children.

9 percent of all participants are elderly (age 60 or over).

76 percent of all benefits go to households with children, 16 percent go to households with disabled persons, and 9 percent go to households with elderly persons.

33 percent of households with children were headed by a single parent, the overwhelming majority of which were headed by women.

The average household size is 2.3 persons.

The average gross monthly income per SNAP household is $673.

43 percent of participants are white; 33 percent are African-American, non-Hispanic; 19 percent are Hispanic; 2 percent are Asian, 2 percent are Native American, and less than 1 percent are of unknown race or ethnicity.

 

[werepossum]

I'm not a fan of Wal-mart but one site has the average full time Wal-mart Associate pegged at making an annual income of $19,165. That exceeds the Federal SNAP income requirements for one person. That also exceeds it for a two person household.

And for those too lazy to click links, and because even if it has already been posted it before, it bears repeating:

Good post. That underscores one of our main societal problems, unmarried or divorced women with children. Such families are overwhelmingly poor. There are no easy solutions for this, as it's a function of society. Previously society shamed women who born children out of wedlock, so there weren't many. Now it's not much of a stigma so there are lots, but there's no way government can change that without severely punishing the children who of course had no choice in the matter. I see no way to fundamentally change the system.

My great grandfather was a miner who died young and left a widow with twelve minor children. My great grandmother worked as a washerwoman; my grandfather (the oldest) dropped out of school at twelve and went to work for a nickel an hour. There were no government programs. Each child either dropped out and went to work, or married, between twelve and fourteen, and went out on his or her own at around sixteen. It made some very strong, self-reliant people, but it also gave zero chance of any advanced education. No doctors there. That is the alternative to our welfare state. Food stamps and other welfare programs often bug me too, and we should always strive to minimize corruption and enforce a work ethic, but I don't think many of us would truly prefer the way things used to be.

 

[Steeplerot]

I do not think it is lack of shame, but more the breakdown of extended families and suburban isolation. It is unnatural for our species to not survive communally.
Sure we can adapt, but so far the post ww2 capitalist nuclear family dream seems to have turned USA into a vapid, self-absorbed, apathetic, dysfunctional and drugged out culture.

 

[nobodyknows]

Yep. not "reasonable" but definitely possible.

As soon as I get some pricing to my meal spreadsheet I'll see just how close I think one could come to $500 with a 2K calories per day.

I'm looking forward to seeing your results.

 

[marincounty]

Maybe I was the guy you saw buying steaks with foodstamps. Several years ago I was temporarily disabled and very poor and applied for and received foodstamps. I received $120 per month for food. The county food stamp (welfare) workers were incompetent and a couple of times they cut off my foodstamps because of their misunderstanding of the foodstamp rules. I had to petition for a hearing before a judge to argue my case, write a statement and bring all of the supporting paperwork. Each time I was in the right and my foodstamps were restored, and they had to give me back foodstamps they owed me. So I would get a pile ($300-$400) of foodstamps at once.

Damm right I am buying a steak, after eating ramen and rice for two months. I received a huge $4 per day for food. I was able to survive on the $4 per day, but just barely, and I was very careful about shopping.

Some of you think this is free money, you have no idea how many hoops you have to jump through to get foodstamps. You have to fill out tons of forms, provide phone and power bills, proof of rent, car registration, insurance, you have to be fingerprinted, etc.
Then you have to deal with the incompetence of them wrongly denying you benefits and then fight them in court. It would have been much easier to work a job than get food stamps, but I was disabled and unable to work.

I believe the food stamp program should be expanded greatly, no one should go hungry in America.

 

[blackangst1]

You mean like Andorra? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate#cite_note-1

(click on Andorra in list)



Low taxes, tax haven for the rich, primarily relies on tourism, now that is a system we can all strive for,

or maybe you were thinking of that other tax haven for the rich, Monaco.

Yah we should strive for 80% of our GDP to be from tourism