1 in 8 "Americans" recieve food stamps. Outrageous!

[Darwin333]

$500 an month can be tough for 3 people.

I feed a family of 4, including an 18 month old and an 8 year old, very well for under $500 a month. I am not trying to get into the absurdities of living off of ramen for a year or anything but $125 a week for food is more than adequate if you are preparing the food yourself. Its the "convenient" foods that can skyrocket the costs. That and my family goes through some friggen milk. I think it would almost be cheaper to buy a damn cow but I doubt my neighbors would appreciate that much.

The rest of this debate is foolish. Could you survive off of a little more than a buck a day? Sure you "could" for a while but its not beneficial to anyone to do so unless you have no other choice. A person could "survive" off of drinking warm piss in the desert for a while if you had to but I wouldn't advocate anyone trying it.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Calories are calories. You need 2k per day. If you get the 2k, no matter how you get it, you will survive.

And here I was having a decent day. The fact that someone, with internet access no less, could say such a thing reminds me why I hate the world again.

 

[Darwin333]

not 100% sure, I haven't actually been trying to figure this out yet because I'm not sure if I'm going to do it or not There is plenty of food though you can get cheaply that wouldn't break the bank. this probably isn't even viable for most people with food stamps because most of them probably have families they're trying to feed. but no one NEEDS to spend more than 1000 a year on food and I think you could get by with a budget of 500 for food.

For the sake of argument, lets assume you are correct. You have yet to address the question "Would you want a sizable portion of our society forced to live off of $500 worth of food a year". Sure it would have the desired affect of motivating some people that have ability and opportunity but what about the rest? You really think all of those people will be content with feeding their children half a cup of rice for dinner day after day? What do you think some of those people are going to do when they are no longer content yet have no ability or opportunity such as in todays job market?

Your premise that hunger is an outstanding motivator is absolutely correct. What some people haven't seemed to grasp is that it can motivate people to do things that aren't good for society, like killing you so their kids can have 2 cups of rice tonight. Many a warlord has power today because of hunger. As we speak hundreds of people are killing someone else for food. Is that, or the government force required to prevent it, what any of you really want in your city?

At the end of the day, man is still an animal. When you back a man into a corner they tend to do pretty awful things in order to survive. As much as the abuse pisses me off and I think reform is needed, at the end of the day it is infinitely better for our society to have fat poor people than skinny poor people.

 

[dartworth]

feel the love...

 

[ElFenix]

walmart: $0.86/lb for whole fryers and whole pork butts; carrots 3 lbs for $1, apples, papayas, and tomatoes 2 lbs for $1, cabbage 2 lbs for $1; $0.98/dozen large eggs

HEB: $0.67/lb whole chicken; oranges $0.77/lb; $1 each large cantaloupe; $3.67 for 2.5 lbs frozen boneless/skinless chicken breast

randalls/safeway: fresh boneless/skinless $1.99/lb (regular price 2.99, you guys paying $4 are getting screwed); 73% lean ground beef $1.08/lb; yellow onions $0.99/lb, broccoli crowns $1.49/lb; $2.77/10 lbs. potatoes; 2 for $1 grapefruit; milk $1.99/gallon


there is a lot of food you could get for $10. a week's worth? maybe. a whole chicken and a lot of vegetables can make a giant pot of chicken chowder. which can be frozen.

 

[werepossum]

Laughing aside, I would really like to see the welfare and food stamp system reformed. A buddy of mine works a part-time job at Sam's Club on top of his full time job to help provide for his family. He sees all sorts of ridiculous products being purchased with food stamps such as lobster, shrimp, salmon, caviar, etc.. all while the person standing in line is talking on their cell phone.

However, I'm definitely in favor of "safety nets" - I was on unemployment for 5 months while I looked for a new job here in Michigan. Fortunately, I was able to find a new job before the 6 months ended, although I'm sure I would have been eligible for a 10-year extension or something outrageous.

I have to admit it bugs me as well when I'm behind someone paying with a food stamp card and they are buying foods I can't afford, like a pile of steaks an inch thick. These people have to be scamming; food stamps aren't that much, you'd spend a month's worth on a dozen premium steaks like that. And yes, they are usually on a cell phone at the time. Not to mention we were in line at Walmart a month or so ago behind a woman buying a big screen TV with a debit card and a bunch of groceries with a food stamp card. (Setting aside the sheer gall, who the hell buys a big screen TV and groceries in one trip? It's like going out for beer and marbles.) She had to whip the debit card back out for the wine and beer though, it wouldn't ring up on her food stamp card. And she made a big scene, which was funny as hell with a forty-something inch LCD TV in a cart next to her. Manager didn't bend, though. Yeah for Walmart!

I'd love to see food stamps usable only for certain basic, nutritious, inexpensive foods. When I was in college I lived on Ramman noodles, salads with lettuce only, homemade cheese pizza, spaghetti, and similar foods; I was healthier and thinner. But I think in practice that's probably too complicated to work.

Unemployment is different, though, that's like insurance funded through payroll taxes. That's my kind of safety net! I don't even so much mind the extensions (which largely aren't funded through employment taxes, but via borrowed money) because while they may be abused, they also help prevent further collapse of the economy.

 

[nobodyknows]

walmart: $0.86/lb for whole fryers and whole pork butts; carrots 3 lbs for $1, apples, papayas, and tomatoes 2 lbs for $1, cabbage 2 lbs for $1; $0.98/dozen large eggs

HEB: $0.67/lb whole chicken; oranges $0.77/lb; $1 each large cantaloupe; $3.67 for 2.5 lbs frozen boneless/skinless chicken breast

randalls/safeway: fresh boneless/skinless $1.99/lb (regular price 2.99, you guys paying $4 are getting screwed); 73% lean ground beef $1.08/lb; yellow onions $0.99/lb, broccoli crowns $1.49/lb; $2.77/10 lbs. potatoes; 2 for $1 grapefruit; milk $1.99/gallon


there is a lot of food you could get for $10. a week's worth? maybe. a whole chicken and a lot of vegetables can make a giant pot of chicken chowder. which can be frozen.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me a menu for several days (maybe a whole week?) of a decently balanced diet with 2000 to 2500 calories in it for $1.37/day.

Quoting the advertised items they use just to get you in the store doesn't really mean anything to me.

 

[ElFenix]

I'm still waiting for someone to show me a menu for several days (maybe a whole week?) of a decently balanced diet with 2000 to 2500 calories in it for $1.37/day.

Quoting the advertised items they use just to get you in the store doesn't really mean anything to me.

like i said, i'm not certain i could get a week's worth of food for $10. i'm refuting some of the claims that chicken breasts can't possibly be under $4/lb or milk for $4/gal or that meat can't be had for $1/lb.

and i'm certain if i go to the markets on airline i can find staples for even less than what wally world and the other grocery stores are advertising.

as for menu, honestly, is it really that hard to think of things to eat?


edit: do you cook for yourself much? i'm getting the notion that you don't, or that when you do it's something extravagant.

 

[nobodyknows]

like i said, i'm not certain i could get a week's worth of food for $10. i'm refuting some of the claims that chicken breasts can't possibly be under $4/lb or milk for $4/gal or that meat can't be had for $1/lb.


as for menu, honestly, is it really that hard to think of things to eat?

Well I'm pretty certain that it couldn't be done without having adverse affects on your health and well being so I want to see somebody that "thinks" it can be done put together a weeks menu that provides 2000 to 2500 calories per day for an average price of $1.37.

I guess if it's too hard.....??

 

[ElFenix]

Well I'm pretty certain that it couldn't be done without having adverse affects on your health and well being so I want to see somebody that "thinks" it can be done put together a weeks menu that provides 2000 to 2500 calories per day for an average price of $1.37.

I guess if it's too hard.....??

that's great, don't ask me for it, i already told you i'm not certain.



edit: as for sales, big deal you have to freeze something. not like no one has ever done that before. further, the sales tend to rotate in my experience, and so probably 3 out of 4 weeks a month someone will have boneless/skinless chicken for under $2/lb. your restriction that things must be bought at regular price aren't something that most people would consider out in the real world.

 

[nobodyknows]

that's great, don't ask me for it, i already told you i'm not certain.



edit: as for sales, big deal you have to freeze something. not like no one has ever done that before. further, the sales tend to rotate in my experience, and so probably 3 out of 4 weeks a month someone will have boneless/skinless chicken for under $2/lb. your restriction that things must be bought at regular price aren't something that most people would consider out in the real world.

Buy as much as you can for the week on sale, but realize that you can't cherry pick this prices from stores 10 miles apart to save 50 cents on a gallon of milk because in the real world it doesn't work that way.

Of course your not sure it can be done but of course your still trying to infer that it can by quoting prices and arguing about the "rules". LOL!

 

[Darwin333]

I have to admit it bugs me as well when I'm behind someone paying with a food stamp card and they are buying foods I can't afford, like a pile of steaks an inch thick. These people have to be scamming; food stamps aren't that much, you'd spend a month's worth on a dozen premium steaks like that. And yes, they are usually on a cell phone at the time. Not to mention we were in line at Walmart a month or so ago behind a woman buying a big screen TV with a debit card and a bunch of groceries with a food stamp card. (Setting aside the sheer gall, who the hell buys a big screen TV and groceries in one trip? It's like going out for beer and marbles.) She had to whip the debit card back out for the wine and beer though, it wouldn't ring up on her food stamp card. And she made a big scene, which was funny as hell with a forty-something inch LCD TV in a cart next to her. Manager didn't bend, though. Yeah for Walmart!

I'd love to see food stamps usable only for certain basic, nutritious, inexpensive foods. When I was in college I lived on Ramman noodles, salads with lettuce only, homemade cheese pizza, spaghetti, and similar foods; I was healthier and thinner. But I think in practice that's probably too complicated to work.

Unemployment is different, though, that's like insurance funded through payroll taxes. That's my kind of safety net! I don't even so much mind the extensions (which largely aren't funded through employment taxes, but via borrowed money) because while they may be abused, they also help prevent further collapse of the economy.

Had a guy who used to work for me do something similar. His "fiance" (they wouldn't get married because they would lose all of the gov't assistance as he made decent money) and mother of his 3 kids had foodstamps, and quite a few other benefits, that he used solely for a few kingly meals a month. They would literally buy nothing but big ass steaks one month with the foodstamp card, maybe shrimp or ribs the next month, and so on. He didn't need them one bit and bragged about abusing the system. If he was short on beer/cig money he would sell some of his foodstamp benefits for 50 cents on the dollar.

Its not hard to scam the system if you know how to work it. OTOH, I hear all kinds of stories of hard working people down on their luck being denied any assistance at all. Something is definitely wrong with the system but I doubt it will get fixed anytime soon.

 

[MrEgo]

I think we can agree that it is not reasonable to expect someone to live off of $500 per year.

*edit - in food expenses.

 

[ElFenix]

i have 3 different grocery stores at nearly the same intersection on my way home, and another 2 kinds within 5 miles from home (and about half a mile apart from each other). i may not go down the street to save $0.50 on a gallon of milk, but most of them are already on the way, or the saving is significant enough to make it worthwhile.

i'm certain you can get close by being smart, using sales and coupons as available (wasn't there a service that would figure out how to combine coupons, sales, and specials to get huge % off grocery bills?), buying in larger quantities, cooking large portions and eating leftovers, not overeating meats (something americans are really guilty of, looking at the guidelines i posted a while back 1 medium chicken breast probably fills the whole guideline for the day), eating things in season (another thing americans have problems with), and just generally being frugal.

 

[sandorski]

i have 3 different grocery stores at nearly the same intersection on my way home, and another 2 kinds within 5 miles from home (and about half a mile apart from each other). i may not go down the street to save $0.50 on a gallon of milk, but most of them are already on the way, or the saving is significant enough to make it worthwhile.

i'm certain you can get close by being smart, using sales and coupons as available (wasn't there a service that would figure out how to combine coupons, sales, and specials to get huge % off grocery bills?), buying in larger quantities, cooking large portions and eating leftovers, not overeating meats (something americans are really guilty of, looking at the guidelines i posted a while back 1 medium chicken breast probably fills the whole guideline for the day), eating things in season (another thing americans have problems with), and just generally being frugal.

On top of the Food Cost, also consider Spices/Seasonings, Oils, and the other things used to make Food taste good. One can Live without those, I suppose, but will they want to for any length is another matter entirely.

 

[Muse]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/us/29foodstamps.html?hp

I quoted Americans because we still don't know if they are all American citizens or if they are illegals. They pulled the same trick with the healthcare debate, saying 45 million "Americans" didn't have healthcare when a large portion of those 45 million were illegals.

However, going back to the main theme of the article, maybe this is why we're in a recession. We're spending billions of dollars so people can get fresh vegetables, fruits, and meats. NO! If you're on food stamps, you should be restricted to rice, beans, and multivitamins. No luxuries like milk and cheese for you sir. Get off the taxpayer dime, get off your lazy ass, and go find a job.

Aren't you the hardnosed pragmatist? Where I am I'm told there are 140 people for every job available. Many of those people don't have a realistic chance of getting that job. Many people aren't physically able to handle work. You would maybe propose shooting them? That's what the Nazi's often did with people they thought substandard for their work force. D:

 

[Muse]

66% of Americans are overweight. And, according to the American Obesity Association, a research organization, poor minority women have the greatest likelihood of being overweight. Lets start by denying these overweight people food stamps first. If your BMI is greater than 20, you shouldn't be on food stamps.

Also, 99% of Americans own a TV. That means 99% of the 1/8 on food stamps own a TV. Maybe they should pawn the TV first before they get food stamps?

Of the people who earn less than 25000, over 30% are obese.

That does not follow. Besides, I believe that more than 1% of Americans are homeless. Surely they don't own a TV.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

I think we can agree that it is not reasonable to expect someone to live off of $500 per year.

*edit - in food expenses.

Yep. not "reasonable" but definitely possible.

As soon as I get some pricing to my meal spreadsheet I'll see just how close I think one could come to $500 with a 2K calories per day.

 

[werepossum]

i have 3 different grocery stores at nearly the same intersection on my way home, and another 2 kinds within 5 miles from home (and about half a mile apart from each other). i may not go down the street to save $0.50 on a gallon of milk, but most of them are already on the way, or the saving is significant enough to make it worthwhile.

i'm certain you can get close by being smart, using sales and coupons as available (wasn't there a service that would figure out how to combine coupons, sales, and specials to get huge % off grocery bills?), buying in larger quantities, cooking large portions and eating leftovers, not overeating meats (something americans are really guilty of, looking at the guidelines i posted a while back 1 medium chicken breast probably fills the whole guideline for the day), eating things in season (another thing americans have problems with), and just generally being frugal.

You might get close, but not for kids. Kids need milk, and milk is pretty expensive if you don't have cows (which take either extensive land or extensive feed.) Plus, teenagers eat a ton, it would be hard to properly feed a teenager for $10 a week at American prices unless you can grow (and preserve) a lot of your own food. Places where people live much more cheaply tend to have cheap local products (usually cereals) that form the bulk of their diets.

I was raised with little meat, maybe hamburger steak or chicken (extra roosters or hens that no longer lay) once a week and a ham or a turkey on holidays. Protein came mostly from eggs and beans; we ate pinto beans, cornbread, and fried potatoes at least two or three times a week, with raw milk and tea, and garden vegetables and greens. Go back a generation and my mother ate those same things fourteen meals a week, with some extra things added for Saturday and Sunday. Go back a few more generations and breads might make up 75% of the diet. In fact, a lot of the world still lives at that standard, with bread or rice at every meal. I'd be willing to bet lots of poor people today feed their children similar to my diet growing up. I'd be comfortable with food stamp people living at that level, but I'd guess most of them don't live a whole lot better right now. Probably the ones we notice are the ones scamming the system, buying steaks and such.

Also, most welfare mothers are not particularly bright or motivated and probably don't have the management and food preparation skills needed to maximize their budgets and nutrition, nor any way to get those skills. Nor, probably, do they have any desire for them. Instead they probably cook the things their mothers cooked, plus the things their kids want. So yeah, it's a shame that 1 in 8 Americans are on food stamps, but other than improving the economy (and reducing the share of it that government consumes) I don't see much alternative. As our manufacturing gets shipped offshore and our illegal population swells, there are going to be way more people than jobs in any unskilled field, so our spread between skilled workers and the unskilled poor is going to continue growing. Probably subsidizing these poor people does less damage overall than using government to artificially flatten the wage scale.

 

[exar333]

I'd go even further than that. I'd say 99.44% of the people receiving food stamps are in no danger of starving. Its just a matter of priorities. Even some of the people saying they applied here still seem to have internet access. $50 a month can keep most people from starving if done right.

$50 buys a LOT of ramen.

 

[ElFenix]

is there any conclusive evidence showing kids need milk? most of the world is lactose intolerant so i'm going to say no. the dairy farmers certainly want you to think that kids need milk. and the feds subsidize them. and the corn farmers. and the ranchers. and a whole list of others. it's disgusting.

 

[Darwin333]

is there any conclusive evidence showing kids need milk? most of the world is lactose intolerant so i'm going to say no. the dairy farmers certainly want you to think that kids need milk. and the feds subsidize them. and the corn farmers. and the ranchers. and a whole list of others. it's disgusting.

Shrug, its what comes out of mommas titty so it makes sense to me. Then again, it would be the perfect scam for the same reason.

 

[ElFenix]

Shrug, its what comes out of mommas titty so it makes sense to me. Then again, it would be the perfect scam for the same reason.

keep in mind we're also talking about cow juice, not what comes out of momma's titty.

 

[TruePaige]

is there any conclusive evidence showing kids need milk? most of the world is lactose intolerant so i'm going to say no. the dairy farmers certainly want you to think that kids need milk. and the feds subsidize them. and the corn farmers. and the ranchers. and a whole list of others. it's disgusting.

What?

 

[werepossum]

is there any conclusive evidence showing kids need milk? most of the world is lactose intolerant so i'm going to say no. the dairy farmers certainly want you to think that kids need milk. and the feds subsidize them. and the corn farmers. and the ranchers. and a whole list of others. it's disgusting.

Much of the world is lactose intolerant as adults, not as children. It's fairly rare for children to be lactose intolerant (although my youngest grandchild was for the first couple of years.) I suppose after age five or so milk could be replaced by other things. Blacks in particular tend to be lactose intolerant as adults, but African women also tend to nurse their children much longer, often until age four or five. (Not a trend I'd like to see extended to America!) And the majority of white people, for whatever reason, are not lactose intolerant as adults.