1 in 8 "Americans" recieve food stamps. Outrageous!

[stateofbeasley]

You think people use food stamps to buy sensible, healthy food?

The burden is on YOU to show that people are buying bad food w' food stamps. Your assertion, YOUR burden.

Let's go back to the article OP linked:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/us/29foodstamps.html?hp

The electrician profiled in the article obviously bought decent food:

Still, the program has filled the Dawsons’ home with fresh fruit, vegetables, bread and meat, and something they had not fully expected — an enormous sense of relief.

I agree though that agriculture subsides are damaging. It encourages production of massive amounts of feed grains used for highly processed, factory foods. Large scale factory farming also damages the environment through soil depletion and use of chemical pesticides and fertilizers.

 

[alchemize]

LOL now you're just being stupid. I guess all those poor people getting fat are doing it on their own dime, and all the thin, healthy ones are on food stamps.

Hmm, wait, math doesn't quite work, does it?

 

[sandorski]

I would say take all that money and instead provide food banks with very basic, generic food. If you qualify for food stamps, you qualify for nutritive, but not terribly tasty, government food. We'd save billions.

Can't have that, can we. Not only do people have a "right to not starve", they have a right to whatever food they choose to spend our tax dollars on! Get them all nice and fat so we can give them free healthcare for their diabetes. Our government is great at making our population even more like cattle.

I suspect you'd end up spending more $billions and not Saving anything. You would end up having to expand existing Food Banks and building(or Leasing space) for many more. Then you would have to put up with Grocery Retailers upset over lost Sales and accusations of unfair Competition(see HealthCare Debate).

 

[Red Dawn]

Please. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself now.

If you had any idea of the cost of nutritious foods, you know the ones that aren't loaded with starch and sugar or are made with processed food you'd understand why the poor suffer more from obesity than those who can afford healthy foods.

 

[stateofbeasley]

LOL now you're just being stupid. I guess all those poor people getting fat are doing it on their own dime, and all the thin, healthy ones are on food stamps.

Hmm, wait, math doesn't quite work, does it?

Ok, I am going to suspend the name calling for this post.

Two reasons that spending more on food can result in a more trim person:

(1) The calories per unit mass of fruit and vegetables is pretty low.
(2) Fruit, vegetables, meat, milk, and other natural foods keep you full longer. These foods cost more, but are more satisfying to the digestive system. Spend more for fewer calories, and get more nutrients.

If you are poor, you spend money on what you can afford: highly processed, high calorie foods. Unfortunately, these get digested quickly, leaving you hungry again pretty soon. Spend less for more calories, get fewer nutrients. Obesity and disease soon follow.

Look at what happened to the Native Americans. Going from a hunter/gatherer atkins type diet (wildlife + vegetables/fruits) to Reservation diet (canned processed garbage) and you get a bunch of fat Native Americans with soaring diabetes rates.

This book explains the paradox in more detail.
http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Food-E.../dp/1594201455

Food stamps in conjunction with a little bit of knowledge about what food to avoid will go a long way to preventing hunger and malnutrition until people can get back on their feet.

 

[alchemize]

Which is precisely why food stamps cause more problems than they cure. They encourage government reliance, encourage obesity, supplement our shitty agriculture practices. Nobody wants anyone to starve. And nobody starves in this country.

And the OP is not correct, it makes no sense to restrict the diet to crap foods. Here's a more modest way to improve food stamps:

No reimbursement on any processed foods (cereals, frozen dinners/pizza, pastas, fruit juice, etc.). You can buy fruits, vegetables, meat, dairy (non-processed), and whole grains.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Wrong you ingrown twat hair. If you had any idea of the cost of nutritious foods, you know the ones that aren't loaded with starch and sugar or are made with processed food you'd understand why the poor suffer more from obesity than those who can afford healthy foods.

I wasn't talking about food in any way shape or form in my post. Everybody knows this.

 

[piasabird]

I see some people getting help at church from the bishop through our churches welfare food programs and needing assistance for rent. At least I see the money going to people instead of government employees. On the first Sunday of every month we fast for 1 or 2 meals and then donate the cost of one meal to the church welfare system. This enables people to eat or stay in their house one more month. As a program, it is much more economical than any government program. One of my jobs in the church which I do for free, is to audit church financial records. All positions in the ward are volunteer positions. We all know how important our time is and how to stretch a dollar. I encourage you all to help if you can Give to a church, give to the red cross, give to the united way or salvation army and maybe someone you know will be helped.

 

[boomerang]

I'm for the food stamp program. It's been in place for a long time and will be for the foreseeable future. It's not all a bed of roses however. Sometimes our tax dollars are used to buy drugs instead of food.

http://www.freep.com/article/200911...int-stores-bought-food-stamps-from-drug-users

 

[stateofbeasley]

Which is precisely why food stamps cause more problems than they cure. They encourage government reliance, encourage obesity, supplement our shitty agriculture practices. Nobody wants anyone to starve. And nobody starves in this country.

That is false.

Did you listen to the podcast I linked to earlier? The interview with two North Philadelphia women who are on food assistance? They say they are ashamed of being reliant on the government and want to support their families themselves. Problem is that good jobs are hard to come by in North Philly, and its hard to get an education when you have to work full time at $9/hr just to feed your family.

The people in the interview don't sound encouraged to rely on the government at all. They don't even like going to the food bank.

Read the book I linked to. It explains what I am saying. Why less money paradoxically means more calories, but more hunger and more health problems.

Edit: ok... I see you did address that.

Alchemize wrote:

No reimbursement on any processed foods (cereals, frozen dinners/pizza, pastas, fruit juice, etc.). You can buy fruits, vegetables, meat, dairy (non-processed), and whole grains.

I can agree with that.

There is also a difference between starvation and hunger.

Starvation is a pretty immediate and dire situation. Think Ethiopia during the 1980's drought. Or rural China during the Great Leap ForwardBackward. That's when people have neither food energy or nutrients going to their body. The midsection becomes swollen as the body consumes itself for energy. Tissues become soft. Pressing on the skin causes indentations that do not bounce back.

Hunger is more like a persistent, long term health hazard. The constant stress of feeling hungry. There is energy, but no feeling of being full. The body does not have the proper nutrients, although it may have energy.

 

[boomerang]

I see some people getting help at church from the bishop through our churches welfare food programs and needing assistance for rent. At least I see the money going to people instead of government employees. On the first Sunday of every month we fast for 1 or 2 meals and then donate the cost of one meal to the church welfare system. This enables people to eat or stay in their house one more month. As a program, it is much more economical than any government program. One of my jobs in the church which I do for free, is to audit church financial records. All positions in the ward are volunteer positions. We all know how important our time is and how to stretch a dollar. I encourage you all to help if you can Give to a church, give to the red cross, give to the united way or salvation army and maybe someone you know will be helped.

I live in a small town. There is only one grocery store. There is a box in the entrance area where are posted food and household items that are needed for the local food pantry. It's administered by a local church.

Every time I go to the store, I look to see what's needed, buy some of those items and drop them in the box on the way out. There are plenty of people contributing. There are usually many items in there.

It's people taking care of their neighbors in an anonymous fashion. It's a good thing to do.

 

[nageov3t]

I would say take all that money and instead provide food banks with very basic, generic food. If you qualify for food stamps, you qualify for nutritive, but not terribly tasty, government food. We'd save billions.

dramatically increasing overhead... to save money.

/headasplode

if a parent is working 2 jobs just to make ends meet, I imagine they're not going to have the free time in their life to prepare fresh meals 3 times/day 7 days/week.

 

[Hacp]

Which is precisely why food stamps cause more problems than they cure. They encourage government reliance, encourage obesity, supplement our shitty agriculture practices. Nobody wants anyone to starve. And nobody starves in this country.

And the OP is not correct, it makes no sense to restrict the diet to crap foods. Here's a more modest way to improve food stamps:

No reimbursement on any processed foods (cereals, frozen dinners/pizza, pastas, fruit juice, etc.). You can buy fruits, vegetables, meat, dairy (non-processed), and whole grains.

Rice and beans are dietary staples in many countries. It costs way less per calorie to be fed on rice and beans. Its not the taxpayer's fault that people don't have self control. If you feel hungry before meal time, do what billions of others do when they feel hungry before a meal. Ignore it and wait!!!!!

 

[stateofbeasley]

dramatically increasing overhead... to save money.

/headasplode

if a parent is working 2 jobs just to make ends meet, I imagine they're not going to have the free time in their life to prepare fresh meals 3 times/day 7 days/week.

I would like to point out though that a lot of meals don't require much prep.

Dinner - easy to put some chicken pieces, whole potatoes, in the oven, and have mixed vegetables on the side (frozen veggies retain their nutrients - easy to cook this up).

Lunches - school kids can get lunch at school.

Breakfast - Oatmeal and apple slices & milk. Takes a couple minutes at most.

Kids can even make a lot of this stuff themselves.

Everyday basic cooking is not time intensive. Not necessary to be the Iron Chef!

 

[stateofbeasley]

Rice and beans are dietary staples in many countries. It costs way less per calorie to be fed on rice and beans. Its not the taxpayer's fault that people don't have self control. If you feel hungry before meal time, do what billions of others do when they feel hungry before a meal. Ignore it and wait!!!!!

That doesn't work if you are hungry and thinking about food, when you have a job to do and need to concentrate.

Going back to the electrician, he needs to be able to concentrate on his job, for both quality and safety reasons.

Have you ever been hungry? I challenge you to not each much for a day, and think about how it impacts your life. Hunger pains cannot simply be put away at will. You can wait them out, but it does hurt productivity and ability to do other tasks. The body needs energy and nutrients just like a computer CPU needs power. Thought is not an energy free task.

 

[nobodyknows]

Not all of the people unemployed need food stamps. They have savings. They have retirement accounts. They have equity in their house. They have cars. They can ask for help from their friends and relatives. Only when you exhaust all options should you be allowed to get assistance. In most countries, if you can't work for your food, you starve to death. I think people should be grateful that we have a food program at all.

It sounds to me like you should move to one of those countries.... and don't let the door his you on your fat ass on the way out.

 

[Hacp]

That doesn't work if you are hungry and thinking about food, when you have a job to do and need to concentrate.

Going back to the electrician, he needs to be able to concentrate on his job, for both quality and safety reasons.

Have you ever been hungry? I challenge you to not each much for a day, and think about how it impacts your life. Hunger pains cannot simply be put away at will. You can wait them out, but it does hurt productivity and ability to do other tasks. The body needs energy and nutrients just like a computer CPU needs power. Thought is not an energy free task.

You're lucky I couldn't find the ignore button. I'll entertain your question. Yes, I have been hungry before. I lost a lot of weight when I was younger and I had to sleep hungry every day. I fight the urge to eat more than I need every day, but I still maintain a normal BMI. In fact, I could probably survive on 1.3-1.4k calories a day for a few months if I really wanted to and still be perfectly functional.

You're right in that energy is not free, but luckily, our bodies have devised a way to store energy. Its called fat! If you are missing some of your 2k calories for the day, the body will burn the fat(along with some muscle). With the amount of obese people we have in the country, it might do some good to reduce their calorie intake a bit.

 

[IGBT]

greatly encouraged by liberalism. they want the populous dependent.

 

[Zebo]

It's all gonna come to a screeching halt once foreigners decide they would rather invest in themselves, their people, than deadbeat USA. We are in for some exciting times ahead.

 

[IronWing]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/us/29foodstamps.html?hp
However, going back to the main theme of the article, maybe this is why we're in a recession. We're spending billions of dollars so people can get fresh vegetables, fruits, and meats. NO! If you're on food stamps, you should be restricted to rice, beans, and multivitamins. No luxuries like milk and cheese for you sir. Get off the taxpayer dime, get off your lazy ass, and go find a job.

So your take on the recession is to blame the poor? The masters of the universe millionaires and billionaires at the investment banks totally fuck over the world economy and all you can think to do is blame people on food stamps? The food stamp program cost in 2008 was $34.6 billlion [ source: http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/faqs.htm#25 ]. Lehman Brothers cost the taxpayers $138 billion to date. AIG cost at least $152 billion. I suggest your worldview is warped.

 

[Zebo]

Wrong you ingrown twat hair. If you had any idea of the cost of nutritious foods, you know the ones that aren't loaded with starch and sugar or are made with processed food you'd understand why the poor suffer more from obesity than those who can afford healthy foods.

Convenient nutritious foods are in short supply and cost more. But I buy a 80lbs bag of short grain organic rice for $55 - that's cheap and lasts half a year. Beans are similarly cheap and so are vegetables when bought in bulk at Costco. FYI family of 5 here spends about $500 a month on food (excluding eating out which we have been trying to curtail in current economic climate)

I think it has more to do with time and maybe education rather than money cost. Poor simply don't have time to sit in kitchen 2 hours a night or don't even know what healthy is. Brought up on isles of junk food and meat.

 

[Hacp]

So your take on the recession is to blame the poor? The masters of the universe millionaires and billionaires at the investment banks totally fuck over the world economy and all you can think to do is blame people on food stamps? The food stamp program cost in 2008 was $34.6 billlion [ source: http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/faqs.htm#25 ]. Lehman Brothers cost the taxpayers $138 billion to date. AIG cost at least $152 billion. I suggest your worldview is warped.

All of them deserve to be blamed. The recipe for a healthy economy is low taxes with low labor costs. Unions keep labor costs high and welfare (including corporate welfare) keeps taxes high.

 

[Zebo]

So your take on the recession is to blame the poor? The masters of the universe millionaires and billionaires at the investment banks totally fuck over the world economy and all you can think to do is blame people on food stamps? The food stamp program cost in 2008 was $34.6 billlion [ source: http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/faqs.htm#25 ]. Lehman Brothers cost the taxpayers $138 billion to date. AIG cost at least $152 billion. I suggest your worldview is warped.

Government guaranteed those risks bankers made. And later, instead of letting these cooked inefficient bastards fail on the unguaranteed securities, as they should have so capital could be free to go to winners instead of crooksters- they bailed them out again. Government is to blame. Now instead of saddling rich stockholders and risk takers with loses government foisted loses upon the USA tax payer.

What's funny is on the frontpage of fannys/freddies prospectus it says govt will not insure loses - but they did without a fight as there was implicit insurance among USA population based on name. So really even those wernt gauranteed by law just juice the rich and powerful have.

FDIC is another government fuckup. Instead of doing due diligence and make sure your bank is making proper loans - you don;t care because your deposits are guaranteed so bankers go nuts loaning all sorta of risky loans.

 

[IronWing]

All of them deserve to be blamed. The recipe for a healthy economy is low taxes with low labor costs. Unions keep labor costs high and welfare (including corporate welfare) keeps taxes high.

Assuming you are employed, how much of a pay cut will you be requesting to help revive the economy?

 

[Hacp]

Assuming you are employed, how much of a pay cut will you be requesting to help revive the economy?

Right now, I am a student working a minimum wage job part time. It's been dam hard to find good part time jobs since they raised the minimum wage. To answer your question, labor costs should be decided by the market.