1/3 of surveyed in the US think being christian is part of being American

[Atreus21]

What I'm saying is that activist sites often deliberately omit context to fit their agenda, which is why they shouldn't be trusted.

And as I amended my earlier post to say, what I should've done is just omit the source as Homer did.

In other words, Homer's unsourced quotes lay open to the same charge as mine if one doesn't seize on the fact that I happened to link mine.

Can you provide examples of what you consider to be 'secular dogma' that is being forced on people?

Forcing the funding of abortion with tax dollars, as happens with funding PP and the proposed revocation of the Hyde amendment. Forcing Christian-owned business and nuns to pay for abortifacients and birth control against their stated convictions. Forcing otherwise-accommodating Christian bakers to provide wedding cakes to gay weddings.

I know you're going to disagree with me man, but I've now spent nearly the entire morning arguing in this thread, and now have to go get my wife.

 

[Commodus]

I love how some conservatives pretend that same-sex marriage is an example of secular views being forced on them, as if you're forced to marry your best friend now that it's legal.

No, this just means you can't impose your religious views on consenting adults who aren't doing harm to others.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

I'm actually positively surprised it's only 1/3

 

[fskimospy]

I see exactly what you did in your usual weasel-like fashion. Technically correct...when dishonestly framed.

Please cite what I wrote that was 'dishonestly framed', specifically.

 

[sactoking]

Breaking news: one third of Americans surveyed don't understand what it means to be American.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

that one left a mark....

well that was just a hanging curveball over the middle of the plate.

 

[fskimospy]

And as I amended my earlier post to say, what I should've done is just omit the source as Homer did.

In other words, Homer's unsourced quotes lay open to the same charge as mine if one doesn't seize on the fact that I happened to link mine.

Not sure why that would be better, I was just suggesting you shouldn't go to obviously biased sources. Why is that so controversial?

Forcing the funding of abortion with tax dollars, as happens with funding PP and the proposed revocation of the Hyde amendment.

No, it doesn't. The only way this makes sense is under the idea that since money is fungible by giving them any funding for anything you are funding abortions. By that same logic if you have a heart transplant at a hospital that performs abortions you are funding abortion. Does that seem reasonable?

Forcing Christian-owned business and nuns to pay for abortifacients and birth control against their stated convictions. Forcing otherwise-accommodating Christian bakers to provide wedding cakes to gay weddings.

You think that not allowing religious groups to exempt themselves from generally applicable laws is secular dogma? Should religious people be able to exempt themselves from other laws at will? What if my religion truly and steadfastly believed in child sacrifice, should I be able to exempt myself from laws against kidnapping and murder? You might shrug it off as an extreme example, but the same logic applies. The idea that religions should be able to opt out of generally applicable laws is incredibly dangerous.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Please cite what I wrote that was 'dishonestly framed', specifically.

The study indicates that the largest group maintained Christian identities but may have been influenced by Deism in some way...carte blanche categorization of this diverse group of people as somehow all being monolithically non-Christian is dishonest as hell.

 

[nakedfrog]

Breaking news: one third of Americans surveyed don't understand what it means to be American.

You mean they don't understand what you think it means to be American. They're allowed to have their own opinion on it.

 

[Thebobo]

To be blunt, who cares what religion if any the founding fathers were. We all know now and the stranglers will eventually that all gods are pure fabrications. The sooner religion is gone from society the better off the world will be.

 

[fskimospy]

The study indicates that the largest group maintained Christian identities but may have been influenced by Deism in some way...carte blanche categorization of this diverse group of people as somehow all being monolithically non-Christian is dishonest as hell.

1) I didn't say they were monolithically non-Christian, I said that most were not Christian. It is ironic that you would try and say someone else was deceptively spinning things and then immediately lie about what they said.

2) The book indicates that most maintained Christian identities but rejected the supernatural elements of Christianity, such as the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, etc. As part of the exact same post you originally selectively quoted, I said this:

Would you consider someone who rejects the divinity of Jesus to be a Christian? I wouldn't.

So in short, I said they were not Christian and then explicitly provided my reasoning behind that statement, which anyone was free to agree or disagree with. Stating the explicit criterion I used to make my judgment is about as honest and transparent as anyone can be. It's very telling that you chose to leave that out, as that's dishonest as hell.

You are an incredibly petty and dishonest person. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[kage69]

I'm not a holy roller.

Right. You just feel your religion entitles you to have a say on what other adults do with their own bodies. My mistake then.

The quotes are sourced.

The Ann Coulter defense, marvelous!

I don't know, frankly. How do you reconcile your quote from Adams with this one from the same man?

Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!

Being familiar with that alleged quote and how much it departs from what we know of Adams' actual views, I wouldn't waste time trying to reconcile it all. I am quite used to hearing christians omit context and/or just make shit up to support their histrionics afterall.

I think you've proven my point, namely that liberals, or at least some of them, refuse to see Christians as anything but "zealots and dominionists."

Just going to give the victim routine the rinse, lather, repeat action huh? Weak sauce, even for you.

FWIW, I actually draw distinct lines between moderate christians/Red Letter Dems/etc and the social-authoritarian religious right.

I get the impression you are not up for the Bill of Rights/10 Commandments Challenge. Pity!

 

[Ken g6]

Citation needed for "millions who won't speak English".

Of 20 broadcast TV stations in my area, 5 (25%) broadcast only in Spanish.

 

[fskimospy]

Of 20 broadcast TV stations in my area, 6 (30%) broadcast only in Spanish.

Isn't preferring Spanish a LOT different than refusing to speak English?

 

[K1052]

Of 20 broadcast TV stations in my area, 5 (25%) broadcast only in Spanish.

The only implication I can see from that is that local Mexican/Central-South American food is probably good, not that there are millions of hispanics who categorically refuse to speak English.

 

[HomerJS]

And as I amended my earlier post to say, what I should've done is just omit the source as Homer did.

In other words, Homer's unsourced quotes lay open to the same charge as mine if one doesn't seize on the fact that I happened to link mine.



Forcing the funding of abortion with tax dollars, as happens with funding PP and the proposed revocation of the Hyde amendment. Forcing Christian-owned business and nuns to pay for abortifacients and birth control against their stated convictions. Forcing otherwise-accommodating Christian bakers to provide wedding cakes to gay weddings.

I know you're going to disagree with me man, but I've now spent nearly the entire morning arguing in this thread, and now have to go get my wife.

If you bothered to read in entirety what I posted you will note the source at the end of the quote. Feel free to use it to pull entire speech/letter.

 

[K1052]

Isn't preferring Spanish a LOT different than refusing to speak English?

Some people don't see it that way.

 

[piasabird]

Christian is a very general term. There are hundreds of churches that believe in God or Jesus Christ in some fashion. However a lot of Asians believe in other faiths like Budhism or confuciousism and other types of Gods and Phylosophies.

 

[sactoking]

You mean they don't understand what you think it means to be American. They're allowed to have their own opinion on it.

no

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

1) I didn't say they were monolithically non-Christian, I said that most were not Christian. It is ironic that you would try and say someone else was deceptively spinning things and then immediately lie about what they said.

2) The book indicates that most maintained Christian identities but rejected the supernatural elements of Christianity, such as the divinity of Jesus, the resurrection, etc. As part of the exact same post you originally selectively quoted, I said this:


So in short, I said they were not Christian and then explicitly provided my reasoning behind that statement, which anyone was free to agree or disagree with. Stating the explicit criterion I used to make my judgment is about as honest and transparent as anyone can be. It's very telling that you chose to leave that out, as that's dishonest as hell.

You are an incredibly petty and dishonest person. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You cannot in any way, shape or form logically conclude that most of the founding Fathers we're non-Christian unless one's idea of 'logic' is to dishonestly frame the "proof" supporting such a blatantly false statement. In weasel-like fashion you want to hang your hat on a very narrow definition of Christians which was defined in the study as "practicing Christians" while completely ignoring the majority group that also self-identified as Christian in the study who may in some way (no matter how slight) exhibited some influence from Deism... which I'm sure varied significantly across the group's spectrum. Your very narrow and myopic definition of Christianity is extremely deceptive and intentionally twists reality.

The dishonesty here is epic. Your statement that most of the Founding Fathers were non-Christian is a lie that's substantiated by a lie.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Christian is a very general term. There are hundreds of churches that believe in God or Jesus Christ in some fashion. However a lot of Asians believe in other faiths like Budhism or confuciousism and other types of Gods and Phylosophies.

what does buddhism have to do with 1/3 surveyed think being christian is part of being american.

 

[nakedfrog]

no

Are you being serious right now?
Okay, tell me which part of being American means I have to subscribe to your definition of what it means to be an American?

 

[Ackmed]

The first two amaze me. Being able to speak English, and especially sharing our customs and values should be present in every American. But I suppose with the influx of immigrants over the past decades they bring their own. I don't care about being born here or what religion someone is, neither affects being an American to me.

 

[fskimospy]

You cannot in any way, shape or form logically conclude that most of the founding Fathers we're non-Christian unless one's idea of 'logic' is to dishonestly frame the "proof" supporting such a blatantly false statement. In weasel-like fashion you want to hang your hat on a very narrow definition of Christians which was defined in the study as "practicing Christians" while completely ignoring the majority group that also self-identified as Christian in the study who may in some way (no matter how slight) exhibited some influence from Deism... which I'm sure varied significantly across the group's spectrum. Your very narrow and myopic definition of Christianity is extremely deceptive and intentionally twists reality.

Considering people who don't accept the divinity of Jesus as non-Christians is not a particularly novel viewpoint. It's literally the defining tenet of Christianity. Atreus21 agreed with me on this definition, by the way, so apparently he's a myopic liar as well, haha.

Regardless, to say that I was being deceptive by stating a position and then saying exactly why I held that position so that others could decide if they agreed with me or not is stupid and you know it. You've now lied about me repeatedly in this thread and I hope you're adult enough to apologize.

The dishonesty here is epic. Your statement that most of the Founding Fathers were non-Christian is a lie that's substantiated by a lie.

Again, you are a petty and dishonest man and you're embarrassing yourself with these unhinged rants.

 

[nakedfrog]

The first two amaze me. Being able to speak English, and especially sharing our customs and values should be present in every American. But I suppose with the influx of immigrants over the past decades they bring their own. I don't care about being born here or what religion someone is, neither affects being an American to me.

Our customs and values are mostly imported from other countries...