1/3 of surveyed in the US think being christian is part of being American

[Doc Savage Fan]

Meanwhile in Germany....
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/14/germany-unveils-integration-law-for-refugees-migrants

...and Switizerland.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/29/switzerland-denies-citizenship-to-muslim-immigrant/

Expecting immigrants/refuges to integrate into their host country's culture is not a radical idea....it's needed to assure harmony in a civil society.

 

[Atreus21]

Do you have any idea what the founding fathers thought about religion? You might want to take a peek.

Yes, do that by all means.

https://wallbuilders.com/founding-fathers-jesus-christianity-bible/

 

[WelshBloke]

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Number one for me would be speak English. Trump really should finally make it the official language.

As to the Christan thing. It's fare to say a majority of Christians, more so then before came out and voted for Trump which helped him pull ahead. I also think that this country being largely Christan is why you see that stat. Is it any wonder though? The founding fathers and forefathers were Judeo Christian.

full of shit as usual conner.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The millions who won't speak English and run around flying Mexican flags.. If you love MX so much take your asses back home and stay there.

what about those filthy irish flying their flags or those evil italians flying their flags? I mean there's a whole "Ukrainian village" in Chicago, when are those fuckers gonna go back?
And don't even get me started on those scheißkopf germans.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

LOL! Those Christians cling to not only Bibles but guns.

check out billy fatass er.. badass...
Who would jesus gun down?

 

[Thebobo]

LOL! Those Christians cling to not only Bibles but guns.

yes because that's what Jesus would of done.

 

[Atreus21]

You guys are very long on complete foolishness today.

On refugees:
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...-refugees-and-travelers/refugee-resettlement/

Refugees, having suffered great loss, including loss of their homes, livelihoods, possessions and oftentimes families, need assistance starting over in a new country. Their initial needs are many: food, clothing, shelter, employment, ESL, and orientation to a new community and culture. In partnership with its affiliates, and the United States Department of State/Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration, USCCB/MRS resettles approximately 30% of the refugees that arrive in the U.S. each year. The Catholic refugee resettlement network includes over 100 diocesan offices across the country and in Guam and Puerto Rico.

My mother-in-law wouldn't be here but for the Catholic Charities operation out of the Philippines in the aftermath of the evacuation of Saigon.

On homeless people in general:
http://www.agrm.org/agrm/default.asp

The Association of Gospel Rescue Missions (AGRM) serves as the network where leaders of approximately 300 agencies find the training, resources, and support they need to serve the individuals and families who arrive on their doorsteps every day of the year.

While rescue missions in membership with AGRM incorporate the core tenets of Christianity in all aspects of their work, they are open to people of every faith or no faith. The end goal is for individuals and families to have their lives and relationships restored, and to be reengaged in meaningful ways with society.

And that's just one Christian organization that deals with homelessness, not even taking account of the massive operations that are Catholic Charities and the Salvation Army.

People can plan their parenthood just fine without Planned Parenthood, and certainly without publicly funding it. Outside of abortion, there are multitudes of clinics and organizations that do all the women-centered care that PP does or purports to do.

 

[HomerJS]

Yes, do that by all means.

https://wallbuilders.com/founding-fathers-jesus-christianity-bible/

Here are some notable quotes by those same founding fathers...

"If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution."
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

"The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear."
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State."
~Founding Father James Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, "Essays In Addition to America’s Real Religion"

"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
~Founding Father Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

"No religious doctrine shall be established by law."
~Founding Father Elbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731

"The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion."
~Founding Father Charles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787

 

[Thebobo]

Meanwhile in Germany....
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/14/germany-unveils-integration-law-for-refugees-migrants

...and Switizerland.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/29/switzerland-denies-citizenship-to-muslim-immigrant/

Expecting immigrants/refuges to integrate into their host country's culture is not a radical idea....it's needed to assure harmony in a civil society.

I agree with the first link not sure about the second. Be nice if we could integrate with American Indians better.

 

[Atreus21]

Here are some notable quotes by those same founding fathers...

It seems clear to me based on the amalgam of the quotes we've collected that while the Founders may have been at most devout Christians or at least not atheists, they remained committed against theocracy, believing that religion shouldn't meddle excessively in politics, nor government in religious exercise.

Which isn't far from where modern Christians stand today. At least not those that I know.

 

[fskimospy]

It seems clear to me based on the amalgam of the quotes we've collected that while the Founders may have been at most devout Christians or at least not atheists, they remained committed against theocracy, believing that religion shouldn't meddle excessively in politics, nor government in religious exercise.

Which isn't far from where modern Christians stand today. At least not those that I know.

The problem is that what some people think isn't 'excessive' goes mighty, mighty far. Depending on how you define modern Christians plenty of them are very, very interested in meddling in politics.

This is from a pretty old poll (as it's not polled that often) but my guess is that this is still reasonably accurate:

What percentage of those people who would be angry if only evolution was taught in schools do you think are Christians? Isn't demanding that your origin myth be taught to children a pretty excessive amount of meddling in government?

 

[HomerJS]

It seems clear to me based on the amalgam of the quotes we've collected that while the Founders may have been at most devout Christians or at least not atheists, they remained committed against theocracy, believing that religion shouldn't meddle excessively in politics, nor government in religious exercise.

Which isn't far from where modern Christians stand today. At least not those that I know.

A premise in this thread is a majority belief it what it means to be American. With that logic being pro-choice is American.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

It seems clear to me based on the amalgam of the quotes we've collected that while the Founders may have been at most devout Christians or at least not atheists, they remained committed against theocracy, believing that religion shouldn't meddle excessively in politics, nor government in religious exercise.

Which isn't far from where modern Christians stand today. At least not those that I know.

How do feel about the Johnson Amendment being potentially revoked?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment

 

[kage69]

Here are some notable quotes by those same founding fathers...

Funny how quotes from the founders never seem to back up the holy rollers, right?

I enjoy asking evangelicals and other christian dominionists to have a look at the Bill of Rights and then point out what about it reminds them so much of their ten commandants. Deeerrrrppp.....

 

[kage69]

And don't even get me started on those scheißkopf germans.

Dirty Krauts and their fake language! Bah!

 

[Atreus21]

Funny how quotes from the founders never seem to back up the holy rollers, right?

A fairly brief overview of the link I provided will quickly refute that. Here are only three:

John Adams: The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

Benjamin Franklin: As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.

Patrick Henry:
Being a Christian… is a character which I prize far above all this world has or can boast.

The Bible… is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.

Many founders were quite Christian, yet didn't want a theocracy. That seems clear enough, yet liberals seem unable to imagine that there can be such a distinction.

Liberals appear to see Christians the way conservatives appear to see Muslims.

 

[Atreus21]

The problem is that what some people think isn't 'excessive' goes mighty, mighty far. Depending on how you define modern Christians plenty of them are very, very interested in meddling in politics.

This is from a pretty old poll (as it's not polled that often) but my guess is that this is still reasonably accurate:

What percentage of those people who would be angry if only evolution was taught in schools do you think are Christians? Isn't demanding that your origin myth be taught to children a pretty excessive amount of meddling in government?

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather just argue where the founders stood regarding religion and Christianity.

 

[zinfamous]

You know, all a conservative on this board would have to do is start posting polls of Muslims around the world showing a preference for Sharia law and the death penalty for apostasy, and leftists would call them Islamophobes.

Secondly, the charge of hypocrisy against Christians who voted for Trump is sheer nonsense. Christians didn't go looking around for the best candidate they could, finding Trump. They were presented with a madman like Trump versus a lying criminal like Hillary, and chose according to their options. Trump, if nothing else, gave at least lip service to the issues that Christians tend to care about. Hillary wrote them off as deplorables, arrogantly thinking she didn't need to appeal for their vote.

The rest of your post is just more inflammatory silliness against Christians.

why is lying madman criminal trump, just a "madman" and not in any way worse than the "lying criminal" HIllary?

Do you actually think that Hillary, who is not a criminal and is objectively far less of a liar than Trump, is somehow more deserving of those titles than a man who is roundly sued and fined for criminal, law-breaking shenanigans and has not opened his mouth to a lie he didn't like (or simply didn't understand)?

Do you think that calling Hillary a liar and criminal more-so than Trump is somehow rational? Is evidence and rationality simply no longer important? I thought you were smarter than the alternative facts crowd. But maybe not.

 

[Atreus21]

why is lying madman criminal trump, just a "madman" and not in any way worse than the "lying criminal" HIllary?

Do you actually think that Hillary, who is not a criminal and is objectively far less of a liar than Trump, is somehow more deserving of those titles than a man who is roundly sued and fined for criminal, law-breaking shenanigans and has not opened his mouth to a lie he didn't like (or simply didn't understand)?

Do you think that calling Hillary a liar and criminal more-so than Trump is somehow rational? Is evidence and rationality simply no longer important? I thought you were smarter than the alternative facts crowd. But maybe not.

Of the available options, Trump more closely aligned with Christians than Hillary did.

 

[fskimospy]

A fairly brief overview of the link I provided will quickly refute that.

That's a Christian activist site, I somehow doubt they are an impartial source.

Many founders were quite Christian, yet didn't want a theocracy. That seems clear enough, yet liberals seem unable to imagine that there can be such a distinction.

'Many' could mean a lot of things, but a majority were not Christians, at least not in the sense that I would consider Christian. (belief in creationism, resurrection of Jesus, etc) They were mostly Christian Deists, which accepted the trappings of Christianity but rejected the supernatural aspects of it. There was a really good book about this that my mom gave me a number of years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faiths_of_the_Founding_Fathers

Liberals appear to see Christians the way conservatives appear to see Muslims.

Oh give me a break.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's a Christian activist site, I somehow doubt they are an impartial source.



'Many' could mean a lot of things, but a majority were not Christians, at least not in the sense that I would consider Christian. (belief in creationism, resurrection of Jesus, etc) They were mostly Christian Deists, which accepted the trappings of Christianity but rejected the supernatural aspects of it. There was a really good book about this that my mom gave me a number of years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faiths_of_the_Founding_Fathers



Oh give me a break.

So one is not a Christian if he or she accepts evolution as a process?

 

[Atreus21]

That's a Christian activist site, I somehow doubt they are an impartial source.

Irrelevant. If the quotes are sourced (and they are), they're valid. Just because they're a Christian activist site doesn't mean the founders didn't say those things. Just because HomerJS may be hostile to Christians doesn't mean the founding fathers didn't say what he quoted them as saying.

'Many' could mean a lot of things, but a majority were not Christians, at least not in the sense that I would consider Christian. (belief in creationism, resurrection of Jesus, etc) They were mostly Christian Deists, which accepted the trappings of Christianity but rejected the supernatural aspects of it. There was a really good book about this that my mom gave me a number of years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faiths_of_the_Founding_Fathers

I was just looking at that book the other day, though I haven't read it to the end. What's important to me is that they appeared to care for the practical aspects of Christianity, which would certainly inform their approach to forming a new country.

Oh give me a break.

I don't know man. That's the impression I get. There are more than one on this board who talk about a Christian Sharia like it's an actual possibility.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Of the available options, Trump more closely aligned with Christians than Hillary did.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You cannot be fucking serious. A guy that was a serial adulterer, perpetual liar, someone who held more regard for wealth than self-worth, he's the one's christians aligned with? so fucking glad I don't believe in that dogma. What a festering pile of bullshit, from the typical hypocrites.

 

[Atreus21]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You cannot be fucking serious. A guy that was a serial adulterer, perpetual liar, someone who held more regard for wealth than self-worth, he's the one's christians aligned with?

Compared with Hillary? Yes, exactly that.