‘He will die in jail’: Intelligence community ready to ‘go nuclear’ on Trump, senior source says

[senseamp]

Let's recap Trump. CIA contractor Snowden should be executed for revealing that all Americans' communications are being spied on, but a former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency has an expectation of privacy when calling the Russian ambassador.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/355119266317615105

Donald J. TrumpVerified account‏@realDonaldTrump
Snowden has given serious information to China and Russia-anyone who thinks otherwise is a dope! He is a traitor who fled-he knew the crime!

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/457314934473633792

Donald J. TrumpVerified account‏@realDonaldTrump
Snowden is a spy who has caused great damage to the U.S. A spy in the old days, when our country was respected and strong, would be executed

 

[HamburgerBoy]

We should have a policy of leaking just about everything that smells funny. If the IC people responsible just sat on these wiretaps and tried to get it through proper avenues, the contents likely would have been delayed, silenced, or buried. Alternatively, it's also the best route in case the IC people were in the wrong. If it turns out that a few Obama-appointees were peeved over Trump's public insults, and conveyed an innocuous phone call as something treasonous, then it's the leakers that look like shit when the transcripts become available. Win-win situation for America.

 

[Sonikku]

If Trump's biggest issue is the leaks themselves and not the damning content of them then he's becoming eerily more like Hillary going back to the DNC fiasco. If his supporters continue to rationalize this behavior of his they will be outing his hypocrisy.

 

[Commodus]

We should have a policy of leaking just about everything that smells funny. If the IC people responsible just sat on these wiretaps and tried to get it through proper avenues, the contents likely would have been delayed, silenced, or buried. Alternatively, it's also the best route in case the IC people were in the wrong. If it turns out that a few Obama-appointees were peeved over Trump's public insults, and conveyed an innocuous phone call as something treasonous, then it's the leakers that look like shit when the transcripts become available. Win-win situation for America.

I'm of this mindset. That's what apologists like PokerGuy don't seem to get: how do the intelligence agencies pursue this when a Republican Congress, an anti-accountability Attorney General and other parts of the administration will pretend the Russian collusion problems don't exist so long as they think they can hold on to power? It's like asking a crooked police department to investigate a bribery case involving its chief... you're not going to get justice by asking people who are part of the problem.

The intelligence community leaks make it clear that the allegations are serious and need to be looked at. In a sense, it forces the Republicans' hand: either start taking these claims seriously or risk having the party's reputation tarnished (more than it is, anyway) if/when there's smoking gun evidence of wrongdoing. It's already fun to watch Trump and his spokespeople get caught up in their own web of deceit -- they clearly lied about contact with Russia before the vote, so what else are they hiding?

 

[woolfe9998]

Ya know, it seems that whatever time/effort/money that Putin apparently spent on destabilizing the US is paying off big time. As your govt/country tears itself apart he's sitting at home doing vodka shots with his buddies and laughing while thinking, yeah, that was totally worth it and the lulz are a great bonus.

You think so? I don't think much of Putin's long game here. If Trump gets taken down for collusion with the Kremlin, sure it will cause chaos and partisan infighting here, but how will Pence and/or other future POTUSes view Russia? After Russia interferes with our election and tries to buy and/or blackmail an American President? If Putin cut a deal with Trump for favoritism, I have a feeling it's going to backfire on him. Even if Trump manages to stay in power, everything he does in relation to Russia will be under a microscope. Putin wants the US to take a soft stance on his incursions into Ukraine and who knows where else. With all the furor over this, it doesn't look like he's going to get it.

 

[Younigue]

A source said he knew a source who overheard a conversation between sources that knew what another source thought about the information another source was purported to have.

Pretty sure they won't need all of that to nail Trump. The man never shuts up. His own words and actions are just as likely to undo him as any source of a source of a source. He's a moron. It was clear before he was elected and he seems to have taken it as a personal challenge since he was sworn in to prove it in a biglier fashion. Is that the successes his supporters were hoping for? If so, job well done.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Poor babies. They got got called a name.

Let me guess.... That's SO UNFAIR!!! haha the irony

 

[rockyct]

You think so? I don't think much of Putin's long game here. If Trump gets taken down for collusion with the Kremlin, sure it will cause chaos and partisan infighting here, but how will Pence and/or other future POTUSes view Russia? After Russia interferes with our election and tries to buy and/or blackmail an American President? If Putin cut a deal with Trump for favoritism, I have a feeling it's going to backfire on him. Even if Trump manages to stay in power, everything he does in relation to Russia will be under a microscope. Putin wants the US to take a soft stance on his incursions into Ukraine and who knows where else. With all the furor over this, it doesn't look like he's going to get it.

My thinking is that Putin basically underestimated the American media. I'm sure he figured that once Trump became President, he would have the power to sweep everything under the rug. The intelligence community is leaking to the press. That absolutely wouldn't happen in Russia, or at least to this extent.

 

[woolfe9998]

My thinking is that Putin basically underestimated the American media. I'm sure he figured that once Trump became President, he would have the power to sweep everything under the rug. The intelligence community is leaking to the press. That absolutely wouldn't happen in Russia, or at least to this extent.

Good points. I agree that autocrat Putin likely did not understand how little control Trump would have over the media. Trump has certainly done his best to intimidate the press by slandering them, but it seems to have only made them more defiant.

 

[HomerJS]

I heard that it would require "high level" approval. This whole thing smells and I personally would like to see an investigation of Flynn along with all aspects of this fiasco including surveillance authorization and the IC leaks.

I thought the FISA courts give those approvals?

Anyway, you don't get to question the President's authority. The President said so.

 

[PokerGuy]

You want a third-world shithole where public executions are acceptable, then get the f*ck out of my country and find one.

lol @ triggered lefty snowflake.

Your country? Newsflash, it ain't yours. It's all of ours, and that includes me. Don't like it, feel free to leave.

 

[PokerGuy]

That could be true, in theory, but we don't know what precisely is motivating these statements from the IC. It may be a vendetta because of Trump attacking them publicly. It may also be that whatever they have uncovered leads them to want to take Trump down because they believe he has actually committed crimes. If you were an investigator and uncovered terrible crimes committed by someone, you might desire to take that person down and see him rot in jail. We also don't know who made these statements. Is it one person? Does that person's opinion reflect the opinion of others in the IC?

As I said before, if they really have information that shows criminal misconduct by the president, then there is a process for dealing with that. Sure they might have information that makes them want to take him down, but here's the issue: if we get to the point where the IC can "take down" the president without going through the proper constitutional process, then we've already lost and turned into a third world country. I have zero problem with them investigating thoroughly, especially on matters of such importance as potential compromise of highly placed officials. Investigating things and leaking information in an attempt to undermine or even overthrow the elected government are very very different things. The former is appropriate, the latter is treason.

What we need to know is what precisely they have uncovered about Trump's connections to Russia. So far we have some information about communications but nothing definitive as to the contents of those communications. Once all the information is out, then we can decide if it's appropriate to accuse people in the IC, and/or Trump, of treason. Right now we have people supportive of Trump accusing the IC of treason, and people not supportive of Trump accusing Trump of treason.

The difference is that the leaks are wrong no matter what information they have uncovered. If they really had legitimate bad stuff, they should bring it forward officially. Leaking it serves no legitimate purpose. The IC is there to serve the administration. Anyone among the IC that really wants to "go to war" with the administration needs to be fired and/or in jail. Disagreeing with the administration? No problem. Trying to undermine the CIC or even overthrow the elected government? Big problem.

 

[repoman0]

lol @ triggered lefty snowflake.

Your country? Newsflash, it ain't yours. It's all of ours, and that includes me. Don't like it, feel free to leave.

It really is ironic when you spew your "authoritarian left" garbage and then go on about how public executions should be the law of the land. Sounds like projection to me.

 

[HomerJS]

With the GOP in firm control of almost branches of govt and soon to be in charge of the SC more of a reason for a bi-partisan special commission like 9/11 and/or special prosecutor

 

[PokerGuy]

I'm of this mindset. That's what apologists like PokerGuy don't seem to get: how do the intelligence agencies pursue this when a Republican Congress, an anti-accountability Attorney General and other parts of the administration will pretend the Russian collusion problems don't exist so long as they think they can hold on to power? It's like asking a crooked police department to investigate a bribery case involving its chief... you're not going to get justice by asking people who are part of the problem.

Sorry, the IC is not some noble guardian of US government virtue like the Turkish military protecting secularism or like the ruling cleric of Iran that can overrule the actual government if he thinks they do something unislamic. That's not their job. If they uncover seriously bad things, they can formally bring those up. There is a process in place for these situations. You can't just say "screw it, we don't like the process so we will take it upon ourselves to decide what needs to happen", unless you're OK with the IC effectively ruling the country.

The intelligence community leaks make it clear that the allegations are serious and need to be looked at.

No, we don't know anything from the leaks because nothing official has been released. All we have is unsourced leaked information.

In a sense, it forces the Republicans' hand: either start taking these claims seriously or risk having the party's reputation tarnished (more than it is, anyway) if/when there's smoking gun evidence of wrongdoing.

It doesn't force anything. Until the IC actually brings forth evidence of some sort, republicans should ignore it. You don't act on unsourced unproven leaks.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I thought the FISA courts give those approvals?

Anyway, you don't get to question the President's authority. The President said so.

I heard that the tapping likely did not go through the FISA process. I understand that our IC has the latitude to monitor all calls between the U.S. and foreign countries...the only caveat being that they mask the name of the U.S. individual and need high level approval to reveal that name...which may require FISA or another high level approval. I don't know the details...and am curious to know if anyone here can shed additional light on this process.

 

[IronWing]

No, we don't know anything from the leaks because nothing official has been released.

Who makes the call to release official information? The very traitors that colluded with Russian spies? Doesn't look too promising that official information will be forthcoming. We see now why Trump made unprovoked attacks on the intelligence agencies. He was getting out in front of the problem of having his own conduct coming to light.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Good points. I agree that autocrat Putin likely did not understand how little control Trump would have over the media. Trump has certainly done his best to intimidate the press by slandering them, but it seems to have only made them more defiant.

I think Putin doesn't really care. He's fishing and the worst case is that US-Russian relations go back to sucking. What can we do, go to war?

I heard that the tapping likely did not go through the FISA process. I understand that our IC has the latitude to monitor all calls between the U.S. and foreign countries...the only caveat being that they mask the name of the U.S. individual and need high level approval to reveal that name...which may require FISA or another high level approval. I don't know the details...and am curious to know if anyone here can shed additional light on this process.

Intel agencies have broad latitude and warrants are not needed in a great many cases. If FISA was not involved it would be because it wasn't needed. Even if it were if it involved Russians there would be no doubt of approval.

Short version- legal.

 

[tweaker2]

I'm beginning to wonder if Trump would even pass a psych evaluation to become yer every day garden variety construction site security guard, yet he was duly *elected the safe-keeper of our nation's most sensitive and well-guarded secrets.

*elected - Via trumped up lies and false promises to a bunch of gullible idiotic yet well meaning citizenry.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Whether the Russians should be treated as an ally, a neutral, or an enemy is a high-level strategic decision that needs to be made by elected officials, not career spooks.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, the spooks are the information brokers and will continue to deal info as they see fit. Argue until you have a stroke but no law will change that.

 

[woolfe9998]

As I said before, if they really have information that shows criminal misconduct by the president, then there is a process for dealing with that. Sure they might have information that makes them want to take him down, but here's the issue: if we get to the point where the IC can "take down" the president without going through the proper constitutional process, then we've already lost and turned into a third world country. I have zero problem with them investigating thoroughly, especially on matters of such importance as potential compromise of highly placed officials. Investigating things and leaking information in an attempt to undermine or even overthrow the elected government are very very different things. The former is appropriate, the latter is treason.



The difference is that the leaks are wrong no matter what information they have uncovered. If they really had legitimate bad stuff, they should bring it forward officially. Leaking it serves no legitimate purpose. The IC is there to serve the administration. Anyone among the IC that really wants to "go to war" with the administration needs to be fired and/or in jail. Disagreeing with the administration? No problem. Trying to undermine the CIC or even overthrow the elected government? Big problem.

How do you report something through a normal process when that thing is that the POTUS himself is corrupt? Who does it get reported to? The Whitehouse? The GOP in Congress? Here's Rand Paul explaining that republicans will not investigate other republicans because it would be counter-productive:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/politics/kfile-rand-paul-republican-investigations/

If ordinary channels are all that are available, this information would never see the light of day. Don't you think the public has a right to know if there's evidence suggesting their president has illegally colluded with a hostile foreign power? Sounds like legitimate whistle blowing to me.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

My question was designed to question why you could call some things highly speculative leaps, when they may appear to others as obvious truths. You are asking for evidence where others the reasoning capacity of some have found him guilty. We know that when something walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's very likely to actually be a duck. Maybe you have a scale that is stuck to the right with glue on the table. Maybe you don't make rational inferences. I didn't arrive at a capacity to ask such questions because I never questioned my level of dedication to real facts. I seem to be the one full of questions. I'm just sharing my gift as it were, interested to see what you think of this. I have already concluded that Trump is a disaster to the nation. I don't have a dog in this fight. I see him as a dangerous menace to the nation about which I can do nothing. I just pop in now and again when I get bored with playing Warcraft. We're fucked and there's nothing I can do.

We were fucked either way imo. But that said, what are these "obvious truths" you speak of...all I see in your post is you dancing with words such as "likely" and referencing the opinions of those with "reasoning capacity" who you no doubt perceive as like-minded. I'm full of questions as well...and speculation is not considered "obvious truth" the last time I checked.

But I'll try to keep an open mind here....please explicitly list these "obvious truths" and I'll promise to reconsider my opinion.

 

[bshole]

As I said before, if they really have information that shows criminal misconduct by the president, then there is a process for dealing with that. Sure they might have information that makes them want to take him down, but here's the issue: if we get to the point where the IC can "take down" the president without going through the proper constitutional process, then we've already lost and turned into a third world country. I have zero problem with them investigating thoroughly, especially on matters of such importance as potential compromise of highly placed officials. Investigating things and leaking information in an attempt to undermine or even overthrow the elected government are very very different things. The former is appropriate, the latter is treason.

The difference is that the leaks are wrong no matter what information they have uncovered. If they really had legitimate bad stuff, they should bring it forward officially. Leaking it serves no legitimate purpose. The IC is there to serve the administration. Anyone among the IC that really wants to "go to war" with the administration needs to be fired and/or in jail. Disagreeing with the administration? No problem. Trying to undermine the CIC or even overthrow the elected government? Big problem.

I tend to agree with you on this. Good post.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

As I said before, if they really have information that shows criminal misconduct by the president, then there is a process for dealing with that. Sure they might have information that makes them want to take him down, but here's the issue: if we get to the point where the IC can "take down" the president without going through the proper constitutional process, then we've already lost and turned into a third world country. I have zero problem with them investigating thoroughly, especially on matters of such importance as potential compromise of highly placed officials. Investigating things and leaking information in an attempt to undermine or even overthrow the elected government are very very different things. The former is appropriate, the latter is treason.



The difference is that the leaks are wrong no matter what information they have uncovered. If they really had legitimate bad stuff, they should bring it forward officially. Leaking it serves no legitimate purpose. The IC is there to serve the administration. Anyone among the IC that really wants to "go to war" with the administration needs to be fired and/or in jail. Disagreeing with the administration? No problem. Trying to undermine the CIC or even overthrow the elected government? Big problem.

The leaks are probably to garner public support prior to an official inquiry/official channel release. If the public support isn't with conceptually ousting the elected official, the powers that be can drag feet until a minor 'no wrongdoing was found' announcement 18 months from now. If there's public outcry due to the 'deluge' of bad press/leaks, then the a-bomb of a no-kidding treasonous act/impeachable offense is revealed, there will be a big push to actually resolve it, and quickly.

 

[readymix]

As I said before, if they really have information that shows criminal misconduct by the president, then there is a process for dealing with that. Sure they might have information that makes them want to take him down, but here's the issue: if we get to the point where the IC can "take down" the president without going through the proper constitutional process, then we've already lost and turned into a third world country. I have zero problem with them investigating thoroughly, especially on matters of such importance as potential compromise of highly placed officials. Investigating things and leaking information in an attempt to undermine or even overthrow the elected government are very very different things. The former is appropriate, the latter is treason.



The difference is that the leaks are wrong no matter what information they have uncovered. If they really had legitimate bad stuff, they should bring it forward officially. Leaking it serves no legitimate purpose. The IC is there to serve the administration. Anyone among the IC that really wants to "go to war" with the administration needs to be fired and/or in jail. Disagreeing with the administration? No problem. Trying to undermine the CIC or even overthrow the elected government? Big problem.

I'd speculate the leakers action is their resultant view of inaction by the "official channels" Furthermore, if it isn't classified information, let it spill forth.