8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[psolord]

So I unhide the last spectral post, after reading this. And talk about being off in your own little👻world. If homie had paid attention for one post, just one post, they would know Infinite can take 30 minutes or more for the finger painting textures to show up. But nope! Let's spam 3 vids where I never play for that long. 🤣

Oh my god are you for real? We now have to do 30minute runs, to show that a card doesn't have a problem?

There's no winning with you guys, lol.

I said it before and I will said it again, if this happens, it's a memory leak and IT'S ON THE DEV.

I have played Halo Infinite for lengthy periods of time. No asset ever disappeared.

 

[Timorous]

Oh my god are you for real? We now have to do 30minute runs, to show that a card doesn't have a problem?

There's no winning with you guys, lol.

I said it before and I will said it again, if this happens, it's a memory leak and IT'S ON THE DEV.

I have played Halo Infinite for lengthy periods of time. No asset ever disappeared.

I did not realise people only played games in 15 minute bursts.

 

[psolord]

If you actually cared to really pay attention to what others are posting in this thread, you'd know where it's from as it was linked previously and already talked about in this thread. It's at 1080p Ultra and here's what it looks like on the 16 GB version of the card.

Spoiler

View attachment 97883

@DAPUNISHER already mentioned it, but it doesn't happen right away but can take a bit of play time to show up. It's not just that frame either but pretty much the whole environment turns to muddy, blob like textures. This is not a unique occurrence, reviewers only started looking into when a bunch of viewers started mentioning this experience in the game. For example. Yes, you can avoid it by turning down texture quality, but you shouldn't have to when you're at 1080p and even weaker cards with more VRAM can have better image quality and there's plenty of performance in at these settings, outside of running out of VRAM.

This is a non issue. The high quality preset is absolutely fine and it reduces the vram requirements by 1.3GBs. Still I had no issues whenever I played on my 3060ti.


1080p ultra

Spoiler

1080p ultra with high textures

Spoiler

 

[psolord]

I did not realise people only played games in 15 minute bursts.

In another 15 minutes you will have moved to a whole new area. If the dev cannot clear his buffers properly it's on the dev.

 

[nurturedhate]

In another 15 minutes you will have moved to a whole new area. If the dev cannot clear his buffers properly it's on the dev.

So you're saying there are issues with 8gb vram cards, it's just not the poor card's fault...

 

[Timorous]

In another 15 minutes you will have moved to a whole new area. If the dev cannot clear his buffers properly it's on the dev.

Games being imperfectly optimised has been a thing for decades, it goes with the territory.

Cards at the 3070 level should be built with this known fact in mind.

 

[psolord]

So you're saying there are issues with 8gb vram cards, it's just not the poor card's fault...

In a scenario like the one described here, more memory could help, sure. I am not buying more vram to alleviate a devs incompetence though. If we are talking about incompetence and not a real existing problem that is.

I said it before, in *some* games, there will be a difference. Very few and easily fixable. Halo Infinite MP is free at steam. Play with textures and ultra and at high and tell me what you see.

This is tlou all over again.

 

[Hitman928]

This is a non issue. The high quality preset is absolutely fine and it reduces the vram requirements by 1.3GBs. Still I had no issues whenever I played on my 3060ti.


1080p ultra

Spoiler

View attachment 97939

1080p ultra with high textures

Spoiler

View attachment 97940

May not be a problem for you, but some of us don't like being bilked on VRAM when buying $400+ GPUs forcing a reduction in settings for no other reason than to make the card cheaper for NV to produce.

 

[psolord]

Side note, here are screens from Harold Halibut. Pretty unique and pretty demanding. Easy to fly under the radar.

These are some screens from a 4070ti, 4k, dlss quality (1440p essentially), ultra preset. The vram is sleeping, the card is screaming. Just an example of gpu power to vram ratio. Unity engine.

Spoiler: harold halibut

 

[psolord]

May not be a problem for you, but some of us don't like being bilked on VRAM when buying $400+ GPUs forcing a reduction in settings for no other reason than to make the card cheaper for NV to produce.

It is not a problem, because the main premise of this thread, is that vram will hinder the gaming experience. In regards to the correct settings I am always talking about, which directly correlate with image quality, I want to see what kind of disaster a lesser vram equiped is heading to if I reduce the x setting, that saves 1-1.5GBs with very little impact. Maybe even zero, because in some instances, the devs allow 4k textures on 1080p resolutions, for reasons I cannot fathom.

If we are talking about the 4060ti 8/16 again, getting the 16, will bilk you of gpu power too and what's worse, the user would think, hey I have a 16GB card, I can do anything. No you can't. At least the 8GB model keeps the expectations at a more reasonable level. The 4060ti 16 is way more unbalanced than the 8GB model. And what is worse, the buyer can get a far stronger 12gb card and he gets trapped by that 16 on the box.

 

[Hitman928]

It is not a problem, because the main premise of this thread, is that vram will hinder the gaming experience. In regards to the correct settings I am always talking about, which directly correlate with image quality, I want to see what kind of disaster a lesser vram equiped is heading to if I reduce the x setting, that saves 1-1.5GBs with very little impact. Maybe even zero, because in some instances, the devs allow 4k textures on 1080p resolutions, for reasons I cannot fathom. If we are talking about the 4060ti 8/16 again, getting the 16, will bilk you of gpu power too and what's worse, the user would think, hey I have a 16GB card, I can do anything. No you can't. At least the 8GB model keeps the expectations at a more reasonable level. The 4060ti 16 is way more unbalanced than the 8GB model. And what is worse, the buyer can get a far stronger 12gb card and he gets trapped by that 16 on the box

No, if a game runs out of render performance before VRAM, clearly it's the developers fault for putting out an un-optimized game and not taking advantage of more memory capacity. Besides, if my card runs out of compute/raster performance, I can just turn down a setting or two that has almost no visible impact but will greatly increase performance, no problem. Why developers include settings I can't tell a difference with but tank performance is beyond me. It's better to use correct settings.

 

[Ranulf]

My friend, most if not all UE5 games, have exhibited the same behavior. The demos too. I mean they are there, nobody is testing, but still everyone has an opinion. Go play Brothers a Tale of two Sons remake and see how nice it runs...vram has nothing to do with it either.

The reason I am insisting on true heavy games, like Starfield, Avatar, Alan Wake II, UE5 and the lot, is because the premise of this thread, is that more vram will keep you safe. It will not. And again, I know more vram is better, if you examine it like that arbitrarily. Its excessive necessity, in regards to the tflops/vram ratio is what I am questioning about. YES in some cases, it will help. In most it won't.

In a scenario like the one described here, more memory could help, sure. I am not buying more vram to alleviate a devs incompetence though. If we are talking about incompetence and not a real existing problem that is.

Incompetence that is often alleviated by ram or yes, better compute in 1-3 generations of chips. Welcome to PC gaming. Starfield, FO4 and anything else Bethesda puts out. Or Ark 1.5 with UE5 engine. I'm no fan of sloppy game devs but 8GB is holding them back at this stage. Why buy them at release if one has to wait for patches in general let alone optimization for now low end 8GB cards. Cards that cost $250-400.

I said it before and I will said it again, if this happens, it's a memory leak and IT'S ON THE DEV.

I have played Halo Infinite for lengthy periods of time. No asset ever disappeared.

They didn't disappear, they became mushy seaweed trees apparently.

 

[psolord]

No, if a game runs out of render performance before VRAM, clearly it's the developers fault for putting out an un-optimized game and not taking advantage of more memory capacity. Besides, if my card runs out of compute/raster performance, I can just turn down a setting or two that has almost no visible impact but will greatly increase performance, no problem. Why developers include settings I can't tell a difference with but tank performance is beyond me. It's better to use correct settings.

I see what you are doing here, but it's not the same thing. I have explained why, numerous times. Pixel counts on our screens are finite. The end picture we see, is a factor of many things. Textures are one of them. Yes they are important. People here insist on missing textures examples. The problems go away if you use the next lower tier with minimal impact. Reducing global illumination though, will take half the polish away. Moreover, texture sizes that can be applied per resolution, are finite. I mean if the dev is a logical team that does not try to use sub pixel assets. The gpu power is not.

Let me give you an example. Imagine you would try to recreate Matrix's Zion Invasion scene in real time.

What kind of raw resources you think you would need, to render it at 1080p? I mean it's the same textures over and over and over. Sure meshes and shaders take up space too. And the combination of all that along with their calculations need memory too. What kind of gpu power though? Sky is the limit.

I mean I showed you Outpost the other day. It's the only thing that comes close to battle complexity and it tanked on everything. We need 2X the power we have today, with the same video ram, to have something that will still not look remotely as complex, but will at least be playable. It's not video ram that holds devs back. It's the gpu power.

 

[psolord]

Ps Just gave a look on Ghostwire Tokyo. Yeah, borderline playable on a 4070ti at 4k and that, without even RT. Vram? Not an issue. And you guys are worried about the 8gb of the 4060ti? xD

Spoiler: ghostwire tokyo

 

[Hitman928]

I see what you are doing here, but it's not the same thing. I have explained why, numerous times. Pixel counts on our screens are finite. The end picture we see, is a factor of many things. Textures are one of them. Yes they are important. People here insist on missing textures examples. The problems go away if you use the next lower tier with minimal impact. Reducing global illumination though, will take half the polish away. Moreover, texture sizes that can be applied per resolution, are finite. I mean if the dev is a logical team that does not try to use sub pixel assets. The gpu power is not.

Let me give you an example. Imagine you would try to recreate Matrix's Zion Invasion scene in real time.

What kind of raw resources you think you would need, to render it at 1080p? I mean it's the same textures over and over and over. Sure meshes and shaders take up space too. And the combination of all that along with their calculations need memory too. What kind of gpu power though? Sky is the limit.

I mean I showed you Outpost the other day. It's the only thing that comes close to battle complexity and it tanked on everything. We need 2X the power we have today, with the same video ram, to have something that will still not look remotely as complex, but will at least be playable. It's not video ram that holds devs back. It's the gpu power.

I can reduce global illumination settings and the games still looks great, no problems. Show me a game where reducing a couple of settings down from ultra make the game look awful and I’ll admit it’s an issue.

 

[SolidQ]

Anyone want test it?

 

[maddie]

I suggest a thread named "8GB vram IS enough and anyone wanting more is just dumb".

After all, if one can get a good to very good experience with 8GB, then we should have this for all except, maybe, the ultra end 24GB xx90 models. 10GB, 12GB, 16GB, 20GB? Pfft, away with them.

 

[Mopetar]

Show me that an 8GB card makes a game butt ugly, due to its vram alone and not its gpu power too and I will deny the problem and argue over frivolous points while blaming everyone and everything else for the problem.

FTFY

 

[Iron Woode]

In a scenario like the one described here, more memory could help, sure. I am not buying more vram to alleviate a devs incompetence though. If we are talking about incompetence and not a real existing problem that is.

I said it before, in *some* games, there will be a difference. Very few and easily fixable. Halo Infinite MP is free at steam. Play with textures and ultra and at high and tell me what you see.

This is tlou all over again.

This thread has made its point clear.

I think it is time for this:

and Filthy Frank, too:

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

This thread has made its point clear.

I think it is time for this:

and Filthy Frank, too:

This thread should be linked to as a definition of the term "moving goalposts".

 

[Mahboi]

In a scenario like the one described here, more memory could help, sure. I am not buying more vram to alleviate a devs incompetence though.

"Why would you buy more hardware when you can just ask the developers to up their workloads by several dozen times?"
Now that's a sound argument.

I also have questions:
"Why would you get a bigger car when you can just have granny push behind?"
"Why would you buy a car at all when you can just walk 200km?"
"Why would you complain about walking 200km when a non-incompetent walker can do it?"
"Why would you walk 200km when you can just liquefy into a slime and slide there?"
"Why would you slide at all when you can just wait and complain that the person 200km away isn't coming for you?"

This thread should be linked to as a definition of the term "moving goalposts".

I haven't read it all but that last page was something.

 

[Mopetar]

I haven't read it all but that last page was something.

You've basically read the entire thread then. I wish I were joking.

I don't exactly know when Groundhog's Day started around here, but I looked back 40 pages and it was certainly going by then.

👻NoW yOu'Re HeRe FoReVeR!👻

 

[Ranulf]

One of us! One of us!

 

[psolord]

I can reduce global illumination settings and the games still looks great, no problems. Show me a game where reducing a couple of settings down from ultra make the game look awful and I’ll admit it’s an issue.

That's what I am saying too. Some settings affect more than others, sure. Textures certainly are not bad one tier down. I mean, I keep testing my older cards, with two tiers down settings and they are still decent.

That is my main beef with this thread. People take examples with stretched settings to show some problems here and there, but it's too difficult to investigate the actual visual impact with more correct settings, that would make the problem go away.

 

[psolord]

You've basically read the entire thread then. I wish I were joking.

I don't exactly know when Groundhog's Day started around here, but I looked back 40 pages and it was certainly going by then.

👻NoW yOu'Re HeRe FoReVeR!👻

It's not Groundhog's Day when new stuff comes out, problem free.

Case in point, Manor Lords.

Spoiler: manor lords gamegpu

Playable on everything and the 4060ti is again beating many cards with higher vram. Even twice as that.

Sure it is a light game, but the fact of the matter is, that one million people got it, day one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1784333658297626810

So why should I pay attention, on Deliver us Mars at 1440p Ultra+RT, while there are games played by the millions, trouble free? Especially when these troubles go away with two mouse clicks.