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Question Zen2 CPU prices Increasing; Not a good sign for Zen3?

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A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
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Yet the 3600X that was released in 2019 is in stock and available for purchase @ $209. 3700X and 3800X are plentiful, too, and not priced sky high.
 
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Vattila

Senior member
Oct 22, 2004
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Latest leak on Milan/"Zen 3" performance:

"The slides also list some performance values: These speak of an IPC performance increase of +15% for integer workloads. For EPYC processors with up to 32 cores, AMD aims to achieve a performance increase of +20% compared to Rome's Zen 2 core processors – single-treaded performance is also expected to increase by +20%. For the larger EPYC processors with up to 64 cores, AMD expects a performance increase of approximately 10 to 15%. Apparently, AMD can achieve a higher clock speed for processors with fewer cores, so that the performance increase with a few cores has a correspondingly higher effect."

 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
3,387
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Did somebody forget to take his meds?
Before Zen+ came out, we had good discounts on Zen CPUs. Likewise on Zen+ CPUs when Zen2 was coming out.

Zen3 is supposed to come out before the end of the year, and:
1) we have no leaks, and
2) Zen2 CPU prices (3600) have risen from $154.99 to MSRP ($199.99) in a matter of weeks.

What this tells me, is that Zen3 sucks, and that retails know it.

Edit: Let me explain. If Zen3 were better than sliced bread, then Zen2 would be (relatively) unsellable, at least at the same price-points, and thus, Zen2 CPUs should be discounted commensurate with the disadvantage relative to zen3 CPUs, before release, to clear stock.

The fact that Zen3 is getting ever-closer to release, and Zen2 prices are going UP, points me to a VERY disasppointing Zen3 release.
Yep, that OP is a classic. Reaching such a conclusion from that data point is mindblowing.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
839
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Before Zen+ came out, we had good discounts on Zen CPUs. Likewise on Zen+ CPUs when Zen2 was coming out.

Zen3 is supposed to come out before the end of the year, and:
1) we have no leaks, and
2) Zen2 CPU prices (3600) have risen from $154.99 to MSRP ($199.99) in a matter of weeks.

What this tells me, is that Zen3 sucks, and that retails know it.

Edit: Let me explain. If Zen3 were better than sliced bread, then Zen2 would be (relatively) unsellable, at least at the same price-points, and thus, Zen2 CPUs should be discounted commensurate with the disadvantage relative to zen3 CPUs, before release, to clear stock.

The fact that Zen3 is getting ever-closer to release, and Zen2 prices are going UP, points me to a VERY disasppointing Zen3 release.
All that seems to have happened is that the top price/perf part (namely the 3600) has cleared out after it was discounted to around 150-160 for some months. So the natural reaction for retailer who had a few straggling parts left in the inventory was a steep price hike.

Other parts like the 3100, 3000 APUs, 3600x and 3700's, and higher seem unaffected.

I think the price will come down to normal levels (170-160) when they restock. However, my guess is that the vast majority of Matisse chiplet production has been replaced with Vermeer/Zen3 chiplet production. To me this inventory clearance is a sign that they are producing their launch stockpile of Vermeer to hit stores in October or even slightly earlier.

For anyone who can't wait I'd say the 2600's or 2700 are a good substitute.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
7,658
882
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www.teamjuchems.com
Checked Microcenter stocks and they appear robust on the 3600 @ $170 w/$20 combo discount (so ~$150 with mobo).

That seems pretty reasonable?

My guess at some point we'll see a run of the 3600 @ $99 there in the next three months. I need to decide if I can handle not buying that. Yikes. I was so close at hitting the 2600 at $99 last time - back when I could stand in the store and the guy came over to the shelf and changed the price as I was standing there.
 

thigobr

Member
Sep 4, 2016
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If they run a 3600 for $99 at some point I am getting one to play with it on my B450 specially because those newer batches seem to overclock better...
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
4,015
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However, my guess is that the vast majority of Matisse chiplet production has been replaced with Vermeer/Zen3 chiplet production.
Is there a Matisse chiplet production?
Isn't it rather a Rome chiplet production, from which occasional bits are put aside towards Matisse?
(Ditto for Milan and Vermeer.)
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
839
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Is there a Matisse chiplet production?
Isn't it rather a Rome chiplet production, from which occasional bits are put aside towards Matisse?
(Ditto for Milan and Vermeer.)
I thought generally it wasn't, but I think at this point (if there's any Zen2 chiplet production at all) the main reason for any continued production would indeed be mainly for Rome. But perhaps the my sense of scale for server chiplets relative to desktop chiplets is completely off.

As for first dibs on availability, yes indeed it would always go to the server business first.
 
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Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
21,274
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I thought generally it wasn't, but I think at this point (if there's any Zen2 chiplet production at all) the main reason for any continued production would indeed be mainly for Rome. But perhaps the my sense of scale for server chiplets relative to desktop chiplets is completely off.

As for first dibs on availability, yes indeed it would always go to the server business first.
Not sure about that. I would think that since the chiplets are used everywhere, they make them, then they get binned for servers (low power), high frequency (desktop/HEDT) then whats left for things like the 3600. Thats the genius of this design, the one chiplet serves all the purposes.
 

A///

Senior member
Feb 24, 2017
829
583
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Well, I know that.... I was only commenting on the chiplets. The IO die should be plentiful.....For both.
I know you know that. :p I suspect if anything given how easy it is to find the X variant online, that the 3600 is being directed to OEMs more, or AMD is building surplus. I estimate that the amount of models after it will last 4-7 months once production ends and the 3600 will keep being manufactured for a while. The 1600AF is a 2700 in disguise or so I've been lead to believe based on various online reports. There's a decent but not significant bump in performance going from a 1600AF to the 3600, as well as providing more "future proofness" to end customers. Though I could be wrong and most stock is being shifted to OEMs due to increased demand of AMD over Intel given how things have transpired.

I've got a devil on my shoulders telling me to pull the trigger and buy into the platform but its other half is telling me patience is a virtue... :triumph:
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,571
2,606
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What this tells me, is that Zen3 sucks, and that retails know it.

Edit: Let me explain. If Zen3 were better than sliced bread, then Zen2 would be (relatively) unsellable, at least at the same price-points, and thus, Zen2 CPUs should be discounted commensurate with the disadvantage relative to zen3 CPUs, before release, to clear stock.

The fact that Zen3 is getting ever-closer to release, and Zen2 prices are going UP, points me to a VERY disasppointing Zen3 release.
Retailers dont know squat about ZEN 3 performance today, the prices are governed by supply and demand.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,039
6,018
136
I don't see clock speeds increasing much at all. The XT series is probably showing what we can get out of enhanced 7nm.
The XT launch is from the exact same wafers as Matisse in 2019. It tells us nothing about Zen3/Vermeer on N7+.
 

turtile

Senior member
Aug 19, 2014
520
148
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The XT launch is from the exact same wafers as Matisse in 2019. It tells us nothing about Zen3/Vermeer on N7+.
Not according to AMD. "The refined AMD Ryzen™ 3000XT Series processors use an optimized 7nm process to offer more of what PC enthusiasts love. "

If they are different is really unknown because we've really heard nothing from TSMC about what these process changes actually entail.
 

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