Zen ETA Q4, '16 ?

[sm625]

AMD needs to just give up on PC. Take an APU with 12GB of HBM and 128GB of HBF, slap it into a tiny box and sell it. It is the only product they can possibly bring to the market that no one else can: A tiny but powerful gaming PC. Imagine GTX980 level graphics out of a tiny box. Some people would pay good money for that. All it needs is one 2.5" slot of an extra bit of storage.

 

[MrTeal]

It is limited to dual channel DDR4

Great, thanks.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Great, thanks.

You're welcome!

 

[Fjodor2001]

nvm

 

[Edrick]

BW-E is Q2 and most probably Q3 2016, if ZEN will launch in Q4 2016 thats hardly a tail-end of BW-E.

And if BW-E is Q3 2016 it means Skylake-E is 2018 and not 2017. Or best case a Q3-Q4 2017 launch, that will put it one year later than ZEN.

I love how you have absolutely no problem randomly adding a quarter or 2 to Intel timeframes with 0 data to back it up, yet, consider AMD timeframes to be written in stone.

 

[Vesku]

Any input from foundry people on how GloFo can be having such severe problems with 14FF yields even though they bought the tech from Samsung and have a partnership deal with them to get it up and running? Or is this a case of Apple getting priority to the point of impacting AMD's launch schedule despite the AMD-Glofo wafer agreement?

 

[Phynaz]

2016Q4 is what has been communicated by AMD. Anything else is speculation.

When was the last time AMD released a new CPU on schedule?

 

[AtenRa]

I love how you have absolutely no problem randomly adding a quarter or 2 to Intel timeframes with 0 data to back it up, yet, consider AMD timeframes to be written in stone.

Production of BW-E has been shifted to late Q1 2016 (Feb-March). That means earliest products could be seen in retail is late Q2 or early Q3 2016.

As for the AMD timeframes, latest info mention a Q4 2016 launch for ZEN. Now if this will change again in the coming months remains to be seen, until then ZEN is a Q4 2016 product.

 

[AtenRa]

When was the last time AMD released a new CPU on schedule?

2012 Trinity
2013 Kabini
2014 with Kaveri

 

[dark zero]

Have any real details on AM4 been released? Everyone's pointing at it being a PGA socket that's used for everything from the dual core APUs to 8-core FX. If they're using a 900-1000 pin socket similar to the previous AM generations, desktop Zen would probably end up being limited to dual channel DDR4 unless they end up releasing an HEDT platform similar to Intel.

Actually desktop one is limited to dual, unlike Intel who are now on quad on desktop.
The only way AMD gets unstuck is moving to LGA...
And AM4 enters with Bristol Ridge on Q2 2016, which is pointless, unless they use edRAM

 

[Edrick]

Production of BW-E has been shifted to late Q1 2016 (Feb-March). That means earliest products could be seen in retail is late Q2 or early Q3 2016.


As for the AMD timeframes, latest info mention a Q4 2016 launch for ZEN. Now if this will change again in the coming months remains to be seen, until then ZEN is a Q4 2016 product.

Ok, so when Intel says a "Q1 launch", actual availability is late Q2 or Q3.

But when AMD says "Q4 launch at the earliest", availability will be immediate.

Got it.

 

[AtenRa]

Ok, so when Intel says a Q1 "launch", actual availability is late Q2 or Q3.

But when AMD says Q4 "launch at the earliest", availability will be immediate.

Got it.

Intel was saying Q1 before the delay, in case you havent noticed BW-E production start has been delayed, shifting the BW-E launch down the road to Q2 or even Q3.

For ZEN we only have launch date of Q4 2016 as of now, that could change down the road but until then we stick to Q4 2016. Easy as that.

 

[AtenRa]

Actually desktop one is limited to dual, unlike Intel who are now on quad on desktop.
The only way AMD gets unstuck is moving to LGA...
And AM4 enters with Bristol Ridge on Q2 2016, which is pointless, unless they use edRAM

Dual channel of DDR-4 at 3000MHz or above + color compression and other technologies will make Bristol Ridge APUs cheaper and very competitive against the competition. No need for eDRAM or HBM in 2016.

 

[MrTeal]

Intel was saying Q1 before the delay, in case you havent noticed BW-E production start has been delayed, shifting the BW-E launch down the road to Q2 or even Q3.

For ZEN we only have launch date of Q4 2016 as of now, that could change down the road but until then we stick to Q4 2016. Easy as that.

Not that there might not be a delay to Q2, but if you are accepting of the timelines being presented why such the long delay in launch looking at Q3? The old schedule had production in Q1 2016 and launch in Q1 2016, the new one just lists Feb-March 2016 for production. Even assuming that's a move from Jan 1st to March 31st, that's still a 3 month delay.

 

[Fjodor2001]

When was the last time AMD released a new CPU on schedule?

See answer by AtenRa. Also, when was the last time Intel released a new CPU on schedule? If anything they have been plagued by delays the last few years, and it continues with Cannonlake and 10 nm.

 

[AtenRa]

Not that there might not be a delay to Q2, but if you are accepting of the timelines being presented why such the long delay in launch looking at Q3? The old schedule had production in Q1 2016 and launch in Q1 2016, the new one just lists Feb-March 2016 for production. Even assuming that's a move from Jan 1st to March 31st, that's still a 3 month delay.

Intel roadmaps showing BW-E for Q1 2016 was about production not product launch. And it was apparently for early Q1 production in early January. The roadmaps were about production availability and that is why we have a shortage of Broadwell-K and Skylake in many areas in the globe the first few months.

Read the small letters

 

[MrTeal]

Intel roadmaps showing BW-E for Q1 2016 was about production not product launch. And it was apparently for early Q1 production in early January. The roadmaps were about production availability and that is why we have a shortage of Broadwell-K and Skylake in many areas in the globe the first few months.

Read the small letters

Does production availability not mean the product is available from volume production, not "we're starting production" ?

For instance, while it was in limited quantity that roadmap showed production availability of the 6700k in Q3 2016, and chips were available at retail halfway through Q3.

 

[dark zero]

Dual channel of DDR-4 at 3000MHz or above + color compression and other technologies will make Bristol Ridge APUs cheaper and very competitive against the competition. No need for eDRAM or HBM in 2016.

Sadly, Intel IGPU with NVIDIA patents managed to defeat the best AMD APU in absolutely everything.

AMD needs a miracle to stay competitive and not to end like VIA

 

[TheELF]

Any input from foundry people on how GloFo can be having such severe problems with 14FF yields even though they bought the tech from Samsung and have a partnership deal with them to get it up and running? Or is this a case of Apple getting priority to the point of impacting AMD's launch schedule despite the AMD-Glofo wafer agreement?

Of course having to actually design the chip before being able to produce it is of no concern...
Is there any info available on if they have done anything yet, design wise?

 

[AtenRa]

Does production availability not mean the product is available from volume production, not "we're starting production" ?

For instance, while it was in limited quantity that roadmap showed production availability of the 6700k in Q3 2016, and chips were available at retail halfway through Q3.

Production for Broadwell-C was early Q2 (April 2016 if i remember correctly), the product was launched in small volume (No availability in the US) at the end of Q2 (June 2016).

Production for Skylake-K was early Q3 (July 2016), the product was launched in small volume (no availability in the US) in August 2016.

So if production of BW-E starts at the end of Q1 (March 2016), low volume retail availability will be middle of Q2 and higher volume at Q3.

 

[Idontcare]

I'm curious as to why GF is delay. Aren't they a cut a paste of samsung?

They aren't, which can be a huge problem (for GF and their customers).

Cut and paste would require "copy exact", which is more costly in terms of equipment costs than what GF is attempting.

GF wants to recycle as much of their existing equipment from prior nodes as possible, purely for cost savings (penny wise, pound foolish) which has resulted in them cobbling together something that is similar to Samsung's process ("electrically equivalent" is the vernacular we use) but the pain comes in terms of process variability (parametric yield loss) and defectivity (functional yield loss).

On the flipside though, it is GF's only hope for a future, so eventually they have to get it right or they risk becoming the next Jazz or Tower.

 

[Arachnotronic]

They aren't, which can be a huge problem (for GF and their customers).

Cut and paste would require "copy exact", which is more costly in terms of equipment costs than what GF is attempting.

GF wants to recycle as much of their existing equipment from prior nodes as possible, purely for cost savings (penny wise, pound foolish) which has resulted in them cobbling together something that is similar to Samsung's process ("electrically equivalent" is the vernacular we use) but the pain comes in terms of process variability (parametric yield loss) and defectivity (functional yield loss).

On the flipside though, it is GF's only hope for a future, so eventually they have to get it right or they risk becoming the next Jazz or Tower.

Any insight into whether the DigiTimes report re: GloFo's 14nm yields is true? Thanks!

 

[DrMrLordX]

When was the last time AMD released a new CPU on schedule?

Most recent example is Kaveri Refresh.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Most recent example is Kaveri Refresh.

 

[Phynaz]

See answer by AtenRa. Also, when was the last time Intel released a new CPU on schedule? If anything they have been plagued by delays the last few years, and it continues with Cannonlake and 10 nm.

You're getting defensive again. AMD's release schedule has nothing to do with Intel.