Zen delayed to 2017 (DigiTimes)

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Batmeat

Senior member
Feb 1, 2011
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I literally don't know what an "infield single" is.

It's a baseball reference. Home runs = points for your team. It takes 4 "singles" to = a home run.

Core 2 duo and Sandybridge were phenomenal CPU's, therefore "home runs"
Skylake isn't that great, therefore a "single"
 
Mar 10, 2006
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It's a baseball reference. Home runs = points for your team. It takes 4 "singles" to = a home run.

Core 2 duo and Sandybridge were phenomenal CPU's, therefore "home runs"
Skylake isn't that great, therefore a "single"

Appreciate the explanation, thanks.

I disagree with that characterization re: Skylake. SNB perf/clock was about 15% better than NHM, about what we got from HSW -> SKL.
 

2blzd

Senior member
May 16, 2016
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Kabylake-X (unlocked) is 'delayed' until 2017. Still getting locked kaby's this fall AFAIK
 

Despoiler

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2007
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The article is BS. The article doesn't seem to take account for product categories. The first Zen chips will be 6 and 8 cores. No iGPU. They compete with Intel Broadwell E series. AMD will want their chips out ASAP. AMD's Zen based APUs that would compete with Kaby Lake are already scheduled for 2017.
 

agfkfhahddhdn

Senior member
Dec 14, 2003
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i don't get amd.

i really don't.

if zen is so great why not get it out as fast as possible?

an ace up your sleeve doesn't mean anything when the game is over.

Seems like they don't have the inventory to do a proper release.

I'm interpreting this correctly? Both Intel and AMD will be ready in 2016 but are withholding Zen and Kylake to help vendors with excessive inventory of existing Intel products. That doesn't explain why they wouldn't just release it anyways for the DIY crowd.

No.The upstream supply chain is comprised of suppliers who provide the materials necessary to build processors. If they are short on inventory, AMD and Intel can't build as many processors as they would like. It seems like a pretty simple case of both companies waiting to build up inventory. The part of the article you're referencing, about vendors having a large inventory of Intel products, is an explanation for why demand is so low.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Appreciate the explanation, thanks.

I disagree with that characterization re: Skylake. SNB perf/clock was about 15% better than NHM, about what we got from HSW -> SKL.

Not sure skylake is 15% faster than Haswell. In any case, Sandy brought a clockspeed increase and phenomenal overclocking as well, so there is more to the improvement than simply IPC.
 

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
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I searched with Bing and found nothing. Only relative link is from you and this thread.

Old roadmap shows Oct. 2016 for Summit Ridge.

amd_platform_samples_schedules_zen_summit_ridge.png
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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Not sure skylake is 15% faster than Haswell. In any case, Sandy brought a clockspeed increase and phenomenal overclocking as well, so there is more to the improvement than simply IPC.

Yeah, I never heard that SKL was 15% faster than Haswell either - there might be certain apps or tasks where it is 15% faster, but on average, I thought it was more like 5-7% faster.

Back to AMD, with Kaby being delayed, it makes sense for them to delay and buy more time to get this release right. I'm still conflicted on whether I should hold out for Zen because I do think it will be a massive improvement over current AMD processors. If they can deliver Haswell IPC with 8 cores for $600, they're going to have lots of buyers. Of course, the question will remain as to whether or not anyone will take advantage of those cores in the near future.
 
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MiddleOfTheRoad

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2014
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Not sure skylake is 15% faster than Haswell. In any case, Sandy brought a clockspeed increase and phenomenal overclocking as well, so there is more to the improvement than simply IPC.

Well as an owner of a 4790K and 6700K -- it's usually a draw in nearly everything. Under just about every game, there is very little difference in performance :( There are a few things like Cinebench, where the 6700K
does edge out the 4790K.... But the advantage is usually never worth
calling home about.

If you've already got a 4790K -- then the 6700K is basically a sidegrade.

i7-6700k-mll.png


i7-6700k-witcher.png


i7-6700k-gta-v-1.png
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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I think it's when your girlfriend breaks up with you at a music festival.

Funny but man that's gotta be a terrible girlfriend if that winds up being a positive. I guess it depends on how many replacements there are running around at said music festival?

Infield single = baseball term, ball barely leaves the bat so it doesn't even make it into the outfield. You barely make it to first base just from raw running speed. In other words, it's the weakest possible hit you can get that still produces positive results.

Simple question to OP: why thread title doesn't include Kaby Lake too if those rumors are of course correct?

. . . because, let's face it, nobody really cares about Kaby Lake compared to Zen/Summit Ridge.

i don't get amd.

i really don't.

if zen is so great why not get it out as fast as possible?

an ace up your sleeve doesn't mean anything when the game is over.

Ehhh I'm taking this one with a grain of salt. It seems to be based more on speculation and possible grumbling from channel partners more than anything else.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Well as an owner of a 4790K and 6700K -- it's usually a draw in nearly everything. Under just about every game, there is very little difference in performance :(

You can use your Gamer's Nexus blog as reference, I'll stick to these websites:

- PCLab

Core i5 6600K vs Core i5 4690K at fixed 4.5GHz, Skylake is:
16.2% faster @ Battlefield 4 MP
10.9% faster @ Counter Strife Global Offensive
6% faster @ Crysis 3
22.7% faster @ Far Cry 4
13% faster @ GTA V
12.5% faster @ The Witcher 3
9.2% faster @ Watch Dogs
14.7% faster @ Project Cars
14.8% faster @ Starcraft 2
24.5% faster @ Total War Attila

Overall gaming performance per clock (IPC) from 14 games/tests @ 1080p Ultra:
gry.png


- Eurogamer

But in the here and now, the Core i5 6600K is a strong product - at worst it provides mildly enhanced performance over its predecessors, at best it's noticeably faster and should help to reduce CPU bottlenecking during gameplay. For those looking to buy or construct a new, capable gaming PC, the i5 remains the default choice and the 6600K is the best iteration yet - AMD's older eight-core FX chips are cheaper, but our tests clearly demonstrate that despite the low-power many-core set-up of the new console CPUs, modern games generally prefer the high per-core performance that Intel provides.

Skylake with fast DDR4 is probably a better tock than Haswell was.


. . . because, let's face it, nobody really cares about Kaby Lake compared to Zen/Summit Ridge.

Whoever wants the best single-thread/per-core performance in the near future certainly cares. But of course it isn't as exciting when you're coming from a great CPU like Skylake, not a sub-par product. :p

Ehhh I'm taking this one with a grain of salt. It seems to be based more on speculation and possible grumbling from channel partners more than anything else.

First paragraph looks very clear to me:

Market watchers originally expected Intel and AMD to launch their new CPU platforms in the third and fourth quarter, respectively, to help boost PC demand in the second half, but both CPU makers have recently postponed their launch schedules to January 2017 at CES 2017 since the upstream supply chain still has serious inventory issues, and market demand has been slow.
 
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Aug 11, 2008
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Funny but man that's gotta be a terrible girlfriend if that winds up being a positive. I guess it depends on how many replacements there are running around at said music festival?

Infield single = baseball term, ball barely leaves the bat so it doesn't even make it into the outfield. You barely make it to first base just from raw running speed. In other words, it's the weakest possible hit you can get that still produces positive results.



. . . because, let's face it, nobody really cares about Kaby Lake compared to Zen/Summit Ridge.



Ehhh I'm taking this one with a grain of salt. It seems to be based more on speculation and possible grumbling from channel partners more than anything else.

Excellent explanation of an infield single.
 

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
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5820K/6800K vs. 6700K is one of the toughest picks for me. I want to believe that DX12 games will come out in greater quantities and they will benefit from 6+ cores in a way Total War Warhammer does.
You would need some serius GPU power to take advantage of that though.
Having 6+ cores running at ~10% each isn't really a reason to get a 6+ core CPU.
And don't confuse rendering a predetermined 3d passage with actually playing a game.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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The reason why I am "taking this with a grain of salt" is that we have 1-2 sources telling us that both Intel and AMD have made official changes to their release schedules because <reasons>, and that's actually really big news that I would wait to see released in a negative-spun-positive fashion before I believe it.

If AMD tells us to get excited because Summit Ridge is launching at CES 2017, then yeah, that's gonna tell us that some actual change has been made. But for now, I remain skeptical.

It sort-of makes sense for Intel to rest on their laurels in order to clear inventory, but AMD? They have already taken write-off charges on excess inventory in the past, and now would be the time to do it again if necessary. Waiting 3 months isn't going to help that excess Vishera inventory move anywhere. Just write the stuff off and let distributors/etailers liquidate the crap. It's not like anyone that wants Summit Ridge is going to sub in a discounted 8320 instead.
 

agfkfhahddhdn

Senior member
Dec 14, 2003
318
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The reason why I am "taking this with a grain of salt" is that we have 1-2 sources telling us that both Intel and AMD have made official changes to their release schedules because <reasons>, and that's actually really big news that I would wait to see released in a negative-spun-positive fashion before I believe it.

If AMD tells us to get excited because Summit Ridge is launching at CES 2017, then yeah, that's gonna tell us that some actual change has been made. But for now, I remain skeptical.

It sort-of makes sense for Intel to rest on their laurels in order to clear inventory, but AMD? They have already taken write-off charges on excess inventory in the past, and now would be the time to do it again if necessary. Waiting 3 months isn't going to help that excess Vishera inventory move anywhere. Just write the stuff off and let distributors/etailers liquidate the crap. It's not like anyone that wants Summit Ridge is going to sub in a discounted 8320 instead.

The difference between Intel and AMD inventory isn't super relevant. Retailers have plenty of stock of processors, full stop, and there won't be much demand for them if they were to launch in October. Not to mention the fact that you all seem to be ignoring the suggestion that AMD and Intel are both facing supplier shortages.
 

know of fence

Senior member
May 28, 2009
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Skylake with fast DDR4 is probably a better tock than Haswell was.

Right, what do you call someting in Baseball, that gets by on the merits of faster DDR4 alone, with worse power efficiency and a non-soldered cap. :D

Or in other words something that can't quite match neither the tubo binning nor the eDRAM boost of the predecessors. Certainly not a Bull Durham, maybe a deuce/ a curveball or perhaps Moneyball?

As a polak once said:
We wszystkich testach, w których w u&#380;yciu by&#322;a pami&#281;&#263; DDR3, stosowali&#347;my modu&#322;y DDR-2133 dzia&#322;aj&#261;ce z opó&#378;nieniami 9-9-10-24 1N. W przypadku platformy LGA1151 korzystali&#347;my z modu&#322;ów DDR4 typu DDR-2666 dzia&#322;aj&#261;cych z opó&#378;nieniami 16-17-17-36 2N.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
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The difference between Intel and AMD inventory isn't super relevant. Retailers have plenty of stock of processors, full stop, and there won't be much demand for them if they were to launch in October. Not to mention the fact that you all seem to be ignoring the suggestion that AMD and Intel are both facing supplier shortages.

It's not about retail inventory, it's about OEM inventory. HP, Dell, Lenovo are saying they need to work through their inventory.

Retail is a tiny, insignificant part of the CPU market.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
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Right, what do you call someting in Baseball, that gets by on the merits of faster DDR4 alone, with worse power efficiency and a non-soldered cap. :D

Skylake needs fast RAM to performance up to its full potential. Using DDR3-1600 it's sometimes slower than Haswell.

ARMA3.png


Fallout.png


PCLab used fast DDR3-2133 9-9-10-24 1N in their Haswell system and average DDR4-2666 16-17-17-36 2N for Skylake, and still arrived at ~12.7% better gaming performance-per-clock. Add to that Skylake's equal/improved overclocking potential and yes, it's a very competent tock. :)
 
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myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
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Not to mention the fact that you all seem to be ignoring the suggestion that AMD and Intel are both facing supplier shortages.

It doesn't seem as if Intel is having supplier shortages, according to their own website. Is GlobalFoundries having trouble procuring wafers and/or copper? That seems unlikely to me, but I'm no expert on the matter, either.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
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So from the computerbase.de site (google translation)
AMD Zen

AMD said the Computex 2016 , Zen is a runnable sample from the factory back , now is the final optimization of the series. Depending on the scope of these actions follows sometimes even a Revision- or Stepping update the CPU to the mass production starts, by up to a quarter of it usually takes a few weeks to a bigger number of trade is available. Therefore, the to early 2017 pending six months is a very short window, AMD told a conference last winter , even a metal staple to Troubleshooting, and optimization of a processor can quickly take two months to complete.

It sounds like a respin for Zen - most likely to fix bugs, if you follow some of the links. Yields may improve a bit with the delay - so it may be sort of a good news/bad news scenario for AMD.
 

agfkfhahddhdn

Senior member
Dec 14, 2003
318
2
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It doesn't seem as if Intel is having supplier shortages, according to their own website. Is GlobalFoundries having trouble procuring wafers and/or copper? That seems unlikely to me, but I'm no expert on the matter, either.

First off, I'm just telling you what the DigiTimes article (that apparently no one took the time to read) is saying: upstream suppliers are facing shortages.

Secondly, Intel handing out awards says literally nothing at all about the inventory in their supply chain...