Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

[511]

If what was leaks was true than I even see $1000 for console we would have few TSMC Price increase by than.

Microsoft should just allow any chungus iGPU + CPU to be used as a Xbox console.

 

[Win2012R2]

If so, they will fail

They'll be riding PS5 installment base for the next 10 years, they've won the war now, PS6 can indeed share SoC with the one AMD will use for other stuff, that will save a lot of fixed cost.

While in general, retailers get %20-%40 margins

From selling what - physical games? Maybe 20%, but 40% is a stretch - AFAIK they make more on 2nd hand stuff than brand new, 40% retail margins are thing of the past.

 

[marees]

Microsoft should just allow any chungus iGPU + CPU to be used as a Xbox console.

They'll be riding PS5 installment base for the next 10 years, they've won the war now, PS6 can indeed share SoC with the one AMD will use for other stuff, that will save a lot of fixed cost.

Yes as per MLID (& blessed by Kepler) Microsoft is literally attaching the 9070xt successor to its next xbox (expected to be revealed by Nov next year)

My best guess is that whatever is the final street price of the 10070xt that will also be the launch price of xbox

(By then a 5080 super might sell for $1000
While the console would be in the range of 5070 ti or 5070 ti super)

 

[Win2012R2]

What Microsoft should really do is release new windows without crud with proper version of DirectX they have on Xbox - supporting unified memory to avoid unnecesarry copying, dedicated hardware decompressors etc, lack of all this makes PC ports work like ****.

 

[511]

Microsoft should just remove all the features we get on windows and people would pay more for that than for Xbox

 

[OneEng2]

No, PlayStation is the millenial soybox for washed up CoD/FIFA players.
Kids play phone games.

Now THERE is a disturbing problem for the gaming console market. I hadn't thought of that, but you are absolutely correct.

Looking at the market trends, mobile is kicking the crap out of both console and PC gaming .... but it looks like the damage may be settling out to steady state now.

If so, they will fail. Current price trajectory is unsustainable. Switch 2 did it right, but its price is right at the limit. Others will have to follow suit. > $500 is untenable for volume.

I 100% agree. Faced with decreasing market share and rising prices, it seems like suicide to raise prices anywhere near $800.

They'll be riding PS5 installment base for the next 10 years, they've won the war now, PS6 can indeed share SoC with the one AMD will use for other stuff, that will save a lot of fixed cost.

From selling what - physical games? Maybe 20%, but 40% is a stretch - AFAIK they make more on 2nd hand stuff than brand new, 40% retail margins are thing of the past.

Retail makes those margins on lots of things (maybe even most things). 40% is uncommon, but %30 isn't.

 

[Joe NYC]

Interesting from Orlak. SP7 is the bigger socket, with 16 memory channels. And it will have the 256 core Venice.

SP8 is smaller socket, either 8 or 12 memory channels. I wonder how many CCD it allows. Hopefully, it allows full 16 CCDs, for 96 cores classic cores

https://twitter.com/x/status/1949441686306017491

 

[adroc_thurston]

either 8

8

I wonder how many CCD it allow

8

Hopefully, it allows full 16 CCDs, for 96 cores classic cores

8*12 is 96.

 

[Joe NYC]

8

8

8*12 is 96.

Great! And thanks for the correction in my math.

BTW, it will be interesting when 256 core Venise Dense beats 256 P Core Diamond Rapids by factor of 2X, with half the silicon...

 

[adroc_thurston]

it will be interesting when 256 core Venise Dense beats 256 P Core Diamond Rapids by factor of 2X

Well it ain't gonna be 2x, but it's gonna be nasty.

with half the silicon...

Not quite but yeah Intel PPA sucks.

 

[OneEng2]

Interesting from Orlak. SP7 is the bigger socket, with 16 memory channels. And it will have the 256 core Venice.

SP8 is smaller socket, either 8 or 12 memory channels. I wonder how many CCD it allows. Hopefully, it allows full 16 CCDs, for 96 cores classic cores

I thought that only the Turnin Dense got 256 cores though. Turin "Classic" or full cores may be limited to 96 .... which still doesn't make much sense to me.

BTW, it will be interesting when 256 core Venise Dense beats 256 P Core Diamond Rapids by factor of 2X, with half the silicon...

AMD has been doing a very good job with their "Server First" philosophy, but I doubt it will beat Diamond Rapids by 2X. I am thinking more like 1.6 .... but I could be wrong.

 

[Joe NYC]

I thought that only the Turnin Dense got 256 cores though. Turin "Classic" or full cores may be limited to 96 .... which still doesn't make much sense to me.

This is about Venice (Zen 6).

Venice Dense being 256 cores, Venice classic being 96 cores.
Turin Dense is 192 cores.

It seems that AMD settled on 12 core CCD for classic cores because it can be used across number of product lines.

AMD has been doing a very good job with their "Server First" philosophy, but I doubt it will beat Diamond Rapids by 2X. I am thinking more like 1.6 .... but I could be wrong.

Intel P-Cores are big and power hungry and will not have SMT.
AMD Dense cores have the same IPC as full cores, are smaller and power efficient. And have SMT.

We will see what the final comparison will be in power constrained environment.

 

[511]

BTW, it will be interesting when 256 core Venise Dense beats 256 P Core Diamond Rapids by factor of 2X, with half the silicon...

Would be by 30% even if the core performance is equal without SMT.

 

[Joe NYC]

Would be by 30% even if the core performance is equal without SMT.

Intel introduced "Efficiency" cores because the P Cores were not that great at efficiency.

Now, when you put together a CPU that have 256 of these cores in environment that is 180 degrees opposite from their strength, what will be the result? Probably a very sub optimal outcome.

 

[511]

Now, when you put together a CPU that have 256 of these cores in environment that is 180 degrees opposite from their strength, what will be the result? Probably a very sub optimal outcome.

We have not seen Panther Cove PPW and Lion Cove PPW was fine(Lunar Lake) using like a slightly better node in PPW vs Zen5 I know the area would be bad but you have to consider AMX is a area Hog that Z6 doesn't have it why do you think they went shared L2 to save area as well.

 

[Thunder 57]

Intel introduced "Efficiency" cores because the P Cores were not that great at efficiency.

Now, when you put together a CPU that have 256 of these cores in environment that is 180 degrees opposite from their strength, what will be the result? Probably a very sub optimal outcome.

Isn't that what Clearwater Forest was supposed to be? Or did it actually come out?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Isn't that what Clearwater Forrest was supposed to be? Or did it actually come out?

Not really (Atom power is poopoo) and no it didn't.
It's in hell.

 

[511]

Not really (Atom power is poopoo) and no it didn't.
It's in hell.

In your dreams for sure cause it ain't in hell.

edit: Intel is in a hellish condition rn so you are right.

 

[adroc_thurston]

In your dreams for sure cause it ain't in hell

It really is.
CWF is really-really struggling.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Seems like the wrong thread for Clearwater Forest discussions but uh, if it's coming out in "mid 2026" then it's DoA. We don't even know if it can beat Turin-dense, much less Venice anything!

 

[adroc_thurston]

if it's coming out in "mid 2026" then it's DoA

hahaha if only

 

[511]

hahaha if only

Than shame on Intel lol It was supposed to H2 25 if it comes Q2 26 it's wasted ofc layoffs didn't affect it like it didn't affect SPR.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Than shame on Intel lol It was supposed to H2 25 if it comes Q2 26 it's wasted ofc layoffs didn't affect it like it didn't affect SPR.

Hahahahah if only.

 

[DrMrLordX]

hahaha if only

If it's any later, it's just going to get worse, since that'll put its product window fully in Zen6 territory where it has no chance.

 

[adroc_thurston]

If it's any later, it's just going to get worse, since that'll put its product window fully in Zen6 territory where it has no chance.

This has been a persistent problem with every Xeon since ICL-SP and it's not changing (for now, anyway).