Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[fastandfurious6]

Seriously 9950X3D2 would be a big success

There is a big chunk of adult millenials who work in IT and can easily dish out top money for top computer parts

Price increased massively the last years but people still buy.

Nobody would buy any GPU at $4000 10 years ago just for gaming

 

[gdansk]

Nobody would buy any GPU at $4000 10 years ago just for gaming

Nvidia works very hard to actually deliver more performance at their top end prices.

Wasting another cache chip for hwbot enthusiasts is not gonna be a financial success. Get out of your bubble. The 7800X3D is 6-7x more popular than the 7950X3D because it offers what people want (gaming performance). The 9950X3D2 would be even worse due to price and offering almost nothing measurable out of the box. Why cannibalize two 9800X3Ds when that's what people actually want?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why cannibalize two 9800X3Ds when that's what people actually want?

Then they should do the next best thing. Unify the V-cache across the two CCDs and let all cores share it!

 

[gdansk]

Then they should do the next best thing. Unify the V-cache across the two CCDs and let all cores share it!

Most likely not happening on AM5.

 

[fastandfurious6]

is it easy for AMD to manufacture an ES prototype 9950X3D2? so it's certain they have it and tested it and showed like only 2-5% improvement?

 

[Shivansps]

They are too busy launching renamed AM4 cpus for some weird reason.

 

[gdansk]

is it easy for AMD to manufacture an ES prototype 9950X3D2? so it's certain they have it and tested it

Yes. They even had a 5950X3D2. Never shipped. Guess why.

They are too busy launching renamed AM4 cpus for some weird reason.

It doesn't make sense but it doesn't take any of their attention to slap a new label on.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Nvidia works very hard to actually deliver more performance at their top end prices.

Wasting another cache chip for hwbot enthusiasts is not gonna be a financial success. Get out of your bubble. The 7800X3D is 6-7x more popular than the 7950X3D because it offers what people want (gaming performance). The 9950X3D2 would be even worse due to price and offering almost nothing measurable out of the box. Why cannibalize two 9800X3Ds when that's what people actually want?

A smart company sells people products they need. A smarter company sells people products they want. I'm tired of your personal vendetta against the very concept and those of us who want it. Your words are changing no one's mind and are borderline insulting. We know exactly what it is, what it will do, and what it won't do.

 

[fastandfurious6]

what matters is +5% over 9800X3D, the #1 position on benches has psychological impact, everyone will buy it just like 9800x3d

but if manufacture shortages are true then it doesn't profit AMD much to make it, they'll just print more 9800x3d instead

 

[gdansk]

A smart company sells people products they need. A smarter company sells people products they want. I'm tired of your personal vendetta against the very concept and those of us who want it. Your words are changing no one's mind and are borderline insulting. We know exactly what it is, what it will do, and what it won't do.

Luckily the minds in charge don't need changing. But maybe they will ship it out when demand tapers off for the actually useful configurations.

It's just as offensive that people are demanding a wasteful, marginally useful configuration while 9800X3D are still in short supply.

 

[gdansk]

what matters is +5% over 9800X3D, the #1 position on benches has psychological impact, everyone will buy it just like 9800x3d

It isn't +any%. Unless you overclock it. In which case an overclocked 9800X3D does the same. It is not a halo configuration unless they go out of their way to 1% bin X3D CCDs too. In which case gamers would again be better served by a cheaper, binned 9800XT3D.

 

[fastandfurious6]

It isn't +any%. Unless you overclock it. In which case an overclocked 9800X3D does the same. It is not a halo configuration unless they go out of their way to 1% bin X3D CCDs too. In which case gamers would again be better served by a cheaper, binned 9800XT3D.

but 7950x3d is definitely higher than 7800x3d in many cases. which means workload does spill to other cores, so there will be difference

 

[gdansk]

but 7950x3d is definitely higher than 7800x3d in many cases. which means workload does spill to other cores, so there will be difference

No, only in MT where it won't be any better than the 9950X. In a combination of ST/MT/gaming the 9950X3D matches it too, even exceeding in some benches where stock clock & latency regression hurts slightly. This is why it is not a halo part without special binning.

The 9800X3D & 7800X3D get people on AM5. No point in making a niche $1000 SKU until you got all the hoppers. Lowest priority.

 

[MS_AT]

A smart company sells people products they need. A smarter company sells people products they want. I'm tired of your personal vendetta against the very concept and those of us who want it. Your words are changing no one's mind and are borderline insulting. We know exactly what it is, what it will do, and what it won't do.

And how big are "we"? I mean if you would be able to gather 10k people who agree with you, then maybe AMD would be able to do a short run series where you would pay 1k $ for the part. Or maybe 100k people is needed. But this is beside the point, thing is if they release 1k$ SKU that doesn't have a noticeable lead over 9950x in Cinebench and 9800x3d in games, then techtubers will start another round of "waste of sand" media campaign that will hurt the brand image in eyes of general public, even if "you" know better where the strengths of the part are, I am afraid the public will not agree with you.

It's somewhat similar to AVX512 story, where majority was scolding AMD for wasting silicon on useless vector instruction set, even though they delivered the best avx512 implementation to date.

 

[fastandfurious6]

for zen 6 they really need to make a super superchip dedicated 100% to real performance, max tdp max vcache everything maxed out, without wasting silicon for NPUs and AVX512 and whatnot

like Halo but 100% CPU

hold the indisputable crown even higher than the popular *800X3D models

 

[LightningZ71]

The sad thing is that there ARE a few situations where the dual 3d setup would make a notable difference, it's just that games are NOT one of them. That's why I suggested they deliver it as an Epyc 4xxx chip. If it flops in gaming, it's not a big deal as that's not what Epyc is for. The same cases that favor the 3d Epyc server parts also would work here.

 

[maddie]

Seriously 9950X3D2 would be a big success

There is a big chunk of adult millenials who work in IT and can easily dish out top money for top computer parts

Price increased massively the last years but people still buy.

Nobody would buy any GPU at $4000 10 years ago just for gaming

That's a good point. The older players, a lot now, have gotten wealthier.

 

[Markfw]

That's a good point. The older players, a lot now, have gotten wealthier.

Also, for apps that need lot of cache for ALL cores, it would be great for DC and other applications.

But yes, still niche But I would buy one.

 

[Kolifloro]

for zen 6 they really need to make a super superchip dedicated 100% to real performance, max tdp max vcache everything maxed out, without wasting silicon for NPUs and AVX512 and whatnot

like Halo but 100% CPU

hold the indisputable crown even higher than the popular *800X3D models

I would have thought ... that Zen 6 on N2 would be an opportunity to truly compete against ARM solutions (Apple's included) ...

And I might be wrong ... but when I say compete, I mean in the performance-efficiency (low power usage) trophy ...

Regards.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I would have thought ... that Zen 6 on N2 would be an opportunity to truly compete against ARM solutions (Apple's included) ...

It's an opportunity to kneecap NVL-S my friend.

 

[Geminiui]

View attachment 102874

Could you test at different limits in Blender 4.2?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Could you test at different limits in Blender 4.2?

Was never my CPU. Sorry.

 

[StefanR5R]

Maybe some of the apologists of heterogeneous CPUs such as 7950X3D don't understand software very well.

9950X3D is heterogeneous too, but hopefully not as bad as 7950X3D. (That is, with a clock frequency differential small enough such that cache insensitive workloads behave practically identical on both CCXs — hopefully.)

 

[MS_AT]

9950X3D is heterogeneous too, but hopefully not as bad as 7950X3D. (That is, with a clock frequency differential small enough such that cache insensitive workloads behave practically identical on both CCXs — hopefully.)

https://blog.hjc.im/spec-cpu-2017 David Huang added some time ago SpecInt results for 9800x3d overclocked to 5.7GHz [the fact that the vanilla score is using slower RAM might muddle things a bit, not sure how each subtest is affected by mem] but also stock 9950x vs 9800x3d show, that 9800x3d is extremely close to 9950x despite the clock deficit, which agrees with C&C results. Slight clock bump on top of what 9800x3d offers, should make both CCDs almost equal.

 

[Joe NYC]

for zen 6 they really need to make a super superchip dedicated 100% to real performance, max tdp max vcache everything maxed out, without wasting silicon for NPUs and AVX512 and whatnot

like Halo but 100% CPU

hold the indisputable crown even higher than the popular *800X3D models

If the main Zen 6 CCD is indeed 12 cores, and everything scales 1.5x (L2, L3, V-Cache) then, a 24 thread processor would be a significant upgrade to 9800x3d.