Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think he means that Zen 5 will be so fast that Zen 4 will look like an atom in comparison. Almost nothing. I think he's high on something 😛

 

[A///]

I interpreted atomize as being hit with an alien space gun like in that film with the green martians with giant brains that laugh like that one woman from friends.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I interpreted atomize as being hit with an alien space gun like in that film with the green martians with giant brains that laugh like that one woman from friends.

Phoebe (Lisa Kudrow)???

She's bananas.

Love her! 😀

 

[igor_kavinski]

It could also mean that the performance gap could widen as much as the one between Intel Core and Intel Atom CPU series. I still think adroc is high 😀

 

[Markfw]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Why would I buy Zen 4 when the same memory, motherboard are all the same, but Zen 5 is 25% faster.

Edit: from the responses, I am clearly no fun 🙂

 

[dr1337]

With regards to iGPU performance it's way behind corresponding Intel desktop CPUs, so is that situation expected to remain?

Where do you see these numbers? Everything I've seen has the 7000 desktop series iGPU neck and neck with intels desktop chips. And UHD 770 is the max any socketed Intel chip comes with sadly.

1. What is the consensus on expected release date of Zen5? Some are claiming 2024Q1, others 2024H2. Is there any actual evidence of one or the other, or just speculation?

My bets are on Q4/23 or Q1/24. No ways its second half of '24.

 

[H433x0n]

This is a very long thread and I've not read all of the posts. For those that have followed it, just wondering:

1. What is the consensus on expected release date of Zen5? Some are claiming 2024Q1, others 2024H2. Is there any actual evidence of one or the other, or just speculation?

2. Are the Zen5 desktop CPUs expected to use only Zen5 cores, or a mix of Zen5 and Zen5C cores like similar Intel desktop CPUs which use performance + efficiency cores?

3. Is there any expectation on Zen5 with regards to power consumption at idle and load? Is it expected to stay roughly at the same levels as on Zen4, or will there be any improvement and if so why?

4. What are the guesstimates with regards to ST and MT performance for Zen5 compared to Zen4?

5. Is there expected to be any update for the IO die with Zen5, with regards to e.g. chip process tech (nm), number if iGPU cores, or similar? With regards to iGPU performance it's way behind corresponding Intel desktop CPUs, so is that situation expected to remain?

Feel free to answer any of the questions, no need to answer all if you don't want to.

One of the reasons for asking is to determine whether it's worth waiting for Zen5 or buying a Zen4 based system hopefully at discount during Black Friday 2023.

I wouldn’t have been happy buying a Zen 2 processor just 6 months before Zen 3 launched. I imagine it’d be a similar situation here.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Where do you see these numbers?

Graphics Card Comparison - Head 2 Head

AMD Radeon Graphics (Ryzen 7000) vs Intel UHD Graphics 770 vs - Benchmarks, Tests and Comparisons

www.notebookcheck.net

There are other examples on that page, showing that AMD wasn't really interested in a fight.

 

[A///]

Phoebe (Lisa Kudrow)???

She's bananas.

Love her! 😀

 

[inf64]

he did say rtg which would be amd's division. hello btw not seen you in a while! any zen 5 projections as it looks we're about six months away from z5 release?

Hey, I will get to write a guesstimate for Zen 5. I think I posted a few things previously, basically ballpark 20-25% IPC increase versus Zen 4, with ST clocks maybe +100Mhz or flat and MT clocks probably flat (if we are lucky). Overall it will be a big jump, but maybe not as big in % terms as Zen 3 to Zen 4 due to clock stagnation. If AVX and L/S throughput is indeed doubled, then certain workloads will see huge jumps. Similar goes for AI optimized stuff. It should be enough for AMD to have ST lead, unsure about MT if Arrow Lake gets 32 small/peasant cores support 😀

 

[PJVol]

And it’s taking up a fair bit of space in this thread that we could otherwise waste on pointless rumors from MILD. IMHO

I'd rather talk about pointless rumours from MLID to these very valuable discussions about which process node and how many wafers apple or intel reserved or whatever

 

[igor_kavinski]

It should be enough for AMD to have ST lead, unsure about MT if Arrow Lake gets 32 small/peasant cores support 😀

Those pesky peasant cores!

 

[Ajay]

I'd rather talk about pointless rumours from MLID to these very valuable discussions about which process node and how many wafers apple or intel reserved or whatever

I forgot the /s tag 😛

 

[jpiniero]

Those pesky peasant cores!

Cinebench Accelerators

 

[CakeMonster]

I love speculation, that part is fun. Please come up with all your wild theories. Its the promotion or even mention of the bullsh*tters that beg for money that I refuse to name that I have a problem with.

I had expected Z5 to follow the 24 month schedule, but if it launces more than 3 months ahead of that, that will have all kinds of interesting consequences. Unlike the graphics market which is getting less interesting and stuck at 24 months (or possibly more going forward) and AMD bowing out of the high end.... the CPU scene is looking very interesting unless Intel screws up badly. We've even seen more CPU limitation cases with RT or just with high end GPU's being so fast lately so I can't wait to see how Z5 and ARL will affect that. I'm also curious whether the gap between the vanilla and X3D chips will stay as high as now.

 

[A///]

Please come up with all your wild theories.

amd engineers breakfance and spin their heads via a helmet on the ipc target written down on the floor so it gets to them mentally

 

[PJVol]

I forgot the /s tag

I caught it, it's ok ) ( not sure about Hitman though 🙂 )

 

[adroc_thurston]

basically ballpark 20-25% IPC increase versus Zen 4, with ST clocks maybe +100Mhz or flat and MT clocks probably flat (if we are lucky)

Clocks are down.

 

[Hitman928]

I caught it, it's ok ) ( not sure about Hitman though 🙂 )

I caught it but also assumed the desire for a break out thread was legitimate as to facilitate a more focused discussion. I’ll try and start one later today and if no one is interested, it will just quietly drift into the void, lol.

 

[A///]

Clocks are down.

from zen 4? is that final or will they go back up? while it's a clock regression id considering it better than maintaining zen 4 clocks with a 20-25 pc ipc increase. to me it says zen 5 is more powerful than most would think because it gained ipc while losing clocks. i also expect zen 6 to be a monster... can we bribe you with something amd hasn't as an employer?

 

[adroc_thurston]

from zen 4?

Yes.

is that final or will they go back up?

Yes.

i also expect zen 6 to be a monster...

The core is incremental.
Everything else is not.

 

[A///]

Yes.

Yes.

The core is incremental.
Everything else is not.

define yes on 2nd answer.

define core is incremental

 

[adroc_thurston]

define yes on 2nd answer

Clocks are down.

define core is incremental

Zen2/4 were incremental and that is what you're getting with Zen6.

 

[blackangus]

The core is incremental.
Everything else is not.

For the Everything else is not - Can you give high level categories where stuff will be changing?
I think we know the interposer if changing correct?

 

[adroc_thurston]

where stuff will be changing

Everywhere not cores and L3 and I mean that most sincerely.