Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[yottabit]

I think I may upgrade from my 5950x to 9800x3d this time around. I’ve been using a Zen4 8 core at work and don’t find myself missing the extra cores

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think it's joever for intel... 9950X is overall better than 285K in pretty much everything (except R24 of course), while X3D will be making everything else look bad in games (7800X3D already does that even now). It is a missed opportunity by intel, for sure.

It's out of stock everywhere. I think people will scoop up 285K as soon as it shows up. May take a month or two for it to sit on shelves collecting dust, once the initial wave of diehard Intel aficionados have had their fill. I think stories like ASUS and G.Skill getting DDR5-12000 booting is gonna fuel the desire for 285K even more.

 

[Josh128]

🤷‍♂️

I think I may upgrade from my 5950x to 9800x3d this time around. I’ve been using a Zen4 8 core at work and don’t find myself missing the extra cores

I went with the 9900X only because I happened upon a deal I couldnt pass up. 9800X3D will be both expensive AND hard to get, I predict. There was a very noticeable difference in web browser speed / general windows usage compared to my 5900X, using same installation (I did not re-install Windows), so it had to be down to CPU and RAM speed. That said, its probably going to be the same speed up whether I would have gone 9900X or down to 9700X.

 

[Hitman928]

It's out of stock everywhere. I think people will scoop up 285K as soon as it shows up. May take a month or two for it to sit on shelves collecting dust, once the initial wave of diehard Intel aficionados have had their fill. I think stories like ASUS and G.Skill getting DDR5-12000 booting is gonna fuel the desire for 285K even more.

The 285k was paper launched, supposedly stock should start to appear around the 1st of November but who knows how much.

 

[MS_AT]

I think stories like ASUS and G.Skill getting DDR5-12000 booting is gonna fuel the desire for 285K even more.

If they made such story about 9950x booting with that memory and working reliably, I would be really tempted to place an order for Asus board

 

[igor_kavinski]

The 285k was paper launched, supposedly stock should start to appear around the 1st of November but who knows how much.

Wouldn't say paper launched because the local stores here in UAE did receive them but the stock was really low, like 15 units per store.

 

[igor_kavinski]

If they made such story about 9950x booting with that memory and working reliably, I would be really tempted to place an order for Asus board

Man, I hope that the 9800X3D reviews are done with at least DDR5-8200 CUDIMMs. I hate it when AMD lags behind Intel in the RAM dept.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Did someone say Zen 5 sold so bad that AMD was panicking?

Zen5 was only a "Zen5%" dud among gamers and certain DiY users. It hit just right with the corpo crowd, which is exactly what it needed to do.

 

[Hitman928]

Wouldn't say paper launched because the local stores here in UAE did receive them but the stock was really low, like 15 units per store.

Very small supply counts as a paper launch, especially when some larger markets got nothing.

 

[inquiss]

Man, I hope that the 9800X3D reviews are done with at least DDR5-8200 CUDIMMs. I hate it when AMD lags behind Intel in the RAM dept.

How come? RAM bandwidth makes less of a difference to X3D chips.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

Man, I hope that the 9800X3D reviews are done with at least DDR5-8200 CUDIMMs. I hate it when AMD lags behind Intel in the RAM dept.

I hope they don't because it won't perform better and is a waste of time and money.

FCLK is still a limiting factor and 2:1 UCLK, there's hardly any gain to be found even in niche benchmark scenarios.

 

[gdansk]

How come? RAM bandwidth makes less of a difference to X3D chips.

For the comparison. So AMD gets off their butt and implements a high speed controller for desktop too.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Man, I hope that the 9800X3D reviews are done with at least DDR5-8200 CUDIMMs. I hate it when AMD lags behind Intel in the RAM dept.

It's next to pointless for a single-CCD part since the fabric limits the IOD->CCD read throughput to 64GB/s (assuming it is running at 2000 MHz, which it is in most cases).

For the comparison. So AMD gets off their butt and implements a high speed controller for desktop too.

The controller is fine (you can run 8000-8200 MHz memory if you want to), it's the single GMI link that is the bottleneck.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I hope they don't because it won't perform better and is a waste of time and money.

FCLK is still a limiting factor and 2:1 UCLK, there's hardly any gain to be found even in niche benchmark scenarios.

I'm talking about for later when AM5 becomes the new AM4 and CUDIMMs are dirt cheap. AMD needs to add support for them to AM5.

 

[igor_kavinski]

How come? RAM bandwidth makes less of a difference to X3D chips.

X3D chips aren't used just for games. Faster RAM is always good.

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/1fkuo6y/rate_my_ram_overclock_ddr5_8000_mhz_with_7950x3d

CUDIMM EXPO support should allow such improvements without praying and wasting time on tuning due to better signal integrity.

 

[Makaveli]

I think I may upgrade from my 5950x to 9800x3d this time around. I’ve been using a Zen4 8 core at work and don’t find myself missing the extra cores

There were alot of people that bought 16 Cores 5950x and never used the additional cores so I think you are not alone in this switch.

Its the same reason I never moved pasted 8 cores on AM4 just don't have work flows that need more cores.

 

[MS_AT]

CUDIMM EXPO support should allow such improvements without praying and wasting time on tuning due to better signal integrity.

But does CUDIMM require support from mem controller or is it transparent to mem controller?

 

[gdansk]

The controller is fine (you can run 8000-8200 MHz memory if you want to), it's the single GMI link that is the bottleneck.

OK, so AMD gets off their butt and adds more GMI links like Genoa did

 

[igor_kavinski]

But does CUDIMM require support from mem controller or is it transparent to mem controller?

New CUDIMM Memory Will Work on Ryzen 9000 CPUs, Says MSI Overclocker

It was previously thought to only be compatible with Intel's next-gen Arrow Lake platform.

www.extremetech.com

In the video, TOPPC notes MSI has made changes to its X870 board's memory slots to maintain better signal integrity and will support CUDIMM. These motherboards are set to launch this week, and MSI is expected to announce CUDIMM support starting at DDR5-8400 MT/s, but higher speeds will likely be offered as well.

So maybe some changes are required to mobo RAM slots?

 

[Josh128]

New CUDIMM Memory Will Work on Ryzen 9000 CPUs, Says MSI Overclocker

It was previously thought to only be compatible with Intel's next-gen Arrow Lake platform.

www.extremetech.com

So maybe some changes are required to mobo RAM slots?

RAM slots wont change. CUDIMMs utilize an extra pin or pins in the existing slots that are unused by UDIMMs. These pins tell the mobo that clock gen will originate from the RAM rather than the CPU mem controller or something similar. 9950X does in fact boot with CUDIMM, but has to run at half data rate currently (which you obviously dont want to do). 7950X does not boot with CUDIMM.

See HardwareLuxxs 285K review page discussing this below.

CUDIMM und DDR5-Skalierung - Seite 13 - Hardwareluxx

Intel Core Ultra 200S alias Arrow Lake im Test: Der Pfeil findet sein Ziel nicht immer.

www.hardwareluxx.de

 

[eek2121]

Man, I hope that the 9800X3D reviews are done with at least DDR5-8200 CUDIMMs. I hate it when AMD lags behind Intel in the RAM dept.

I'm talking about for later when AM5 becomes the new AM4 and CUDIMMs are dirt cheap. AMD needs to add support for them to AM5.

IIRC Zen 4/5 don’t support CUDIMMs in anything except fallback mode, which makes them function like regular DIMMs. Unsure if this is a software or hardware isssue.

There were alot of people that bought 16 Cores 5950x and never used the additional cores so I think you are not alone in this switch.

Its the same reason I never moved pasted 8 cores on AM4 just don't have work flows that need more cores.

Don’t forget the 16 core parts also clock higher. The 9950X3D will very likely clock to at least 5.5ghz for the core with 3D V-Cache.

 

[9949asd]

Man, I hope that the 9800X3D reviews are done with at least DDR5-8200 CUDIMMs. I hate it when AMD lags behind Intel in the RAM dept.

Why are you want to use cudimm on zen5? On zen5 cudimm only going to work at bypass mode, the ckd is not working. It’s wasting money, the first cudimm will cost like 400usd.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why are you want to use cudimm on zen5? On zen5 cudimm only going to work at bypass mode, the ckd is not working. It’s wasting money, the first cudimm will cost like 400usd.

Next year maybe 9950X3D reviews come out with DDR5-9600 CUDIMM benchmarks. AMD has time!

 

[igor_kavinski]

FCLK is still a limiting factor and 2:1 UCLK, there's hardly any gain to be found even in niche benchmark scenarios.

MarkPost posted new record here with DDR5-8200! https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ox-justins-and-pspdfkit.2618297/post-41326846