Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Joe NYC]

So, Zen 5 did as Zen 5 was expected to do. And obliterated GNR immediately.

Graphical representation:

 

[Markfw]

Basically confirms as everyone guessed that Zen 5 is a server first design. Desktop is just secondary.

Not exactly. Price = $$$$. But if you can afford it and need all the cores, worth every penny. If you don't have the money, but need a strong avx-512, desktop is a great value.

 

[exquisitechar]

For once, Zen5 didn’t disappoint. Still, AMD isn’t trouncing Intel as badly as they used to, but that’s to be expected. Ampere got obliterated, though.
https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-epyc-9965-ampereone

 

[PJVol]

what means different IPC data? dedicated for int and fp?

Maybe for different toys? )



The top Naples was $4,200 for 32-cores, not bad progress since then, btw...

 

[Joe NYC]

Interesting take here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1844441041795154381

 

[gdansk]

And the conclusion from STH is that Intel needs to cut pricing.

Intel needs to reset its list pricing methodology for the non-hyperscale market since it is hard to justify the current pricing structure. It just looks strange optically to have list prices this far off.

Still it's good to see competition.

 

[PJVol]

What does 64MB L3 mean for both 16-core 9115 and 8-core 9015?

 

[Markfw]

And the conclusion from STH is that Intel needs to cut pricing.


Still it's good to see competition.

What competition ? AMD is now totally leaves Xeons out in the cold in power/perf and plain performance. At any level in server, they are totally superior.

 

[gdansk]

What competition ? AMD is now totally leaves Xeons out in the cold in power/perf and plain performance. At any level in server, they are totally superior.

It's closer than it's been for years and in a few ways Intel has an advantage (PCIe lanes and acceleration).

Read their article for more information...

AMD EPYC 9005 Turin Turns Transcendent Performance with 768 Threads Per Server

With up to 768 threads in a dual socket server, the AMD EPYC 9005 "Turin" generation offers transcendent performance for servers

www.servethehome.com

 

[adroc_thurston]

and in a few ways Intel has an advantage (PCIe lanes and acceleration).

They had QAT et al for eons but that's niche.
PCIe lane advantage is more of a 1p gimmick, where Intel is finally ahead by a bit.

 

[DavidC1]

It's closer than it's been for years and in a few ways Intel has an advantage (PCIe lanes and acceleration).

Read their article for more information...

AMD EPYC 9005 Turin Turns Transcendent Performance with 768 Threads Per Server

With up to 768 threads in a dual socket server, the AMD EPYC 9005 "Turin" generation offers transcendent performance for servers

www.servethehome.com

The advantage for Turin is quite big.

Granite Rapids also has problems, where it's underperforming half-core Emerald Rapids in few of the applications which is dragging the average down too.

 

[jpiniero]

And the conclusion from STH is that Intel needs to cut pricing.

Worth repeating that Intel's server list prices are so not real it's not even worth discussing.

The problem I think for Intel is that I don't think they can be that generous on any of their nodes past 10 nm since they don't have that much capacity anyway.

 

[Joe NYC]

Worth repeating that Intel's server list prices are so not real it's not even worth discussing.

The problem I think for Intel is that I don't think they can be that generous on any of their nodes past 10 nm since they don't have that much capacity anyway.

I think those high prices are there for OEMs to sell these to Enterprise. The OEMs get them for far less.

And one notable thing from all the partners was that it seems the likes of Dell, HP, Lenovo are ready to push EPYC to enterprise (where Intel used to dominate).

Not a whole lot was said about cloud (other than Meta saying they installed 1.5 million EPYC servers so far). In that market, AMD is increasing its domination.

The only place Intel has good traction is in AI servers, at first designed with NVidia, but now it seems like the default platform. That's an area where AMD needs to redefine that platform with Turin.

 

[Markfw]

Worth repeating that Intel's server list prices are so not real it's not even worth discussing.

The problem I think for Intel is that I don't think they can be that generous on any of their nodes past 10 nm since they don't have that much capacity anyway.

2 things

1) Intel is in dire need of money since their financial situation is die.
2) When you are a corp, efficiency and performance outweigh pricing so much its almost not worth considering. data centers that use twice the power/server use 2-4 times as much when you add AC and backup power (generators)

 

[HurleyBird]

9755 - 128 zen5 cores - 512mb L3 - $12,984
9745 - 128 zen5c cores - 256mb L3 - $12,141

what

who's gonna buy the second at same price

Someone who benefits from data locality across 16c/32t partitions.

Each zen5c cores has access to the exact same amount of L3 as each zen5 core. The only difference is it's sharing that cache with more neighboring cores across a CCX. It's one step forward and one step back. Which is better depends entirely on use case.

 

[desrever]

9755 - 128 zen5 cores - 512mb L3 - $12,984
9745 - 128 zen5c cores - 256mb L3 - $12,141

what

who's gonna buy the second at same price

Customers who want lower energy bill

 

[coercitiv]

Worth repeating that Intel's server list prices are so not real it's not even worth discussing.

All the more easier to cut down imaginary prices! You get a price cut, and you get a price cut!

 

[yuri69]

Few points:

* Turin with that 8000+ RAM would surely shine even more. Too bad AMD went the cheap road again.
* 400W TDP sounds horrific but this headroom allows to get those many core gains
* AFAK AMD slides did not compare to GNR but still Turin defeats it rather easily
* Does anybody remember those slides presenting challenging routing of Rome's 8 CCDs? Today Turin got 16 of those...

 

[MS_AT]

9755 - 128 zen5 cores - 512mb L3 - $12,984
9745 - 128 zen5c cores - 256mb L3 - $12,141

what

who's gonna buy the second at same price

on servethehome article prices are reversed, that makes more sense I guess

 

[Josh128]

So was there any mention of the fabled new 16 core CCX in the 3nm 9965 chip? I dont recall any talk at all about it.

 

[Mahboi]

9755 - 128 zen5 cores - 512mb L3 - $12,984 - 460W average
9745 - 128 zen5c cores - 256mb L3 - $12,141 - 250W average

what

who's gonna buy the second at same price

I have fixed it for you, this might help.

 

[BattleRam]

I hope they release Threadripper cpu based on Zen 5 sometime next year because based on these benchmarks they will be insanely fast

 

[SolidQ]

AMD EPYC ‘Turin’ 9005 Series - we benchmark 192-core Zen 5 chip with 500W TDP

Cranking up the power.

www.tomshardware.com

Some screens

Spoiler

 

[Fjodor2001]

Basically confirms as everyone guessed that Zen 5 is a server first design. Desktop is just secondary.

Maybe it’ll change with Zen6, if Zen6 DT will share die with Zen6 mobile (instead of server) like some have speculated.

In that case, perhaps one should skip Zen5 on DT and wait for Zen6.

 

[Josh128]

It appears the 16 core CCX rumor was real. It appears to have the same structure of the 8 core CCX but doubled. This is why the CCDs are long and rectangular in 9965 while not so in 9754. You can see the different CCX layout clearly vs Bergamo.

...........................128C Zen 5.....................................................196C Zen 5C



................................................128C Zen 4C