Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[Mahboi]

Do it like him. Publish graphs. Draw curves. Invent numbers.
AI RAYGENERATE A NEW REALITY.

 

[Joe NYC]

Looking like a long reign for the 7800X3D gaming champ.

Other tests show web browser performance improvement. I guess they did figure out a way to target improved interpreter and JIT performance.

What would be the argument for 9800x3d not getting at least equal performance bump (from 9700x) as 7800x3d (from 7700x)?

It seems to me that 9800x3d will receive at least equal performance bump, and some things (lower power, lower temps) suggest that it is more likely that 9800x3d will not have the same clock speed regression as 7800x3d.

 

[yuri69]

Release dates were hilarious

That April release would be hilarious seeing the current firmware state.

 

[Thibsie]

I would prefer it if they called it something like 963D or 96X3D. The 00 is superfluous for these single CCD parts since they never released any xx50 single CCD part.

Mmm they might release xx50 SKUs with higher TDP if Zen5 looks to bad compared to Intel.

 

[FlameTail]

What would be the argument for 9800x3d not getting at least equal performance bump (from 9700x) as 7800x3d (from 7700x)?

It seems to me that 9800x3d will receive at least equal performance bump, and some things (lower power, lower temps) suggest that it is more likely that 9800x3d will not have the same clock speed regression as 7800x3d.

There were rumours that V-cache in Ryzen 9000X3D is different.

 

[Mahboi]

I'm not expecting anything fancy, already 2nd gen Vcache was a lot better than 1st gen. It's probably a few extra percent, 2-3% tops. Already the amount of cycles lost by using V cache was tiny, I think someone mentioned just 3-4 cycles. There's just not a massive headroom there IMO.

In any case, this is it then. A 70mm², decent density, power efficiency oriented, productivity monster Zen 5 with fairly crappy gaming performance. That's the end result of our forever waiting.
Well, it's both good and completely meh. Server lads will absolutely buy it in infinity quantity, and I'm really eager to see if the microcode updates can somehow get better results out of their relatively poor performance.

The best thing about Zen 5 will be Turin. A true cloud chip.

 

[yottabit]

What would be the argument for 9800x3d not getting at least equal performance bump (from 9700x) as 7800x3d (from 7700x)?

It seems to me that 9800x3d will receive at least equal performance bump, and some things (lower power, lower temps) suggest that it is more likely that 9800x3d will not have the same clock speed regression as 7800x3d.

At this point my biggest worry is that AMD already hyped up Zen5 vcache a bit saying it had some “interesting” features

Based on what we’ve seen so far of the core I’d expect it to have even more uplift than Zen4X3D vs Zen4, but if we apply the “reverse marketing lingo” filter, “interesting” doesn’t sound too good….

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

At this point my biggest worry is that AMD already hyped up Zen5 vcache a bit saying it had some “interesting” features

Based on what we’ve seen so far of the core I’d expect it to have even more uplift than Zen4X3D vs Zen4, but if we apply the “reverse marketing lingo” filter, “interesting” doesn’t sound too good….

Looking at the lower temps of Zen 5 compared to Zen 4, I bet that "interesting part" is just lower frequency gap between vanilla and x3d parts.

In any case, this is it then. A 70mm², decent density, power efficiency oriented, productivity monster Zen 5 with fairly crappy gaming performance. That's the end result of our forever waiting.
Well, it's both good and completely meh. Server lads will absolutely buy it in infinity quantity, and I'm really eager to see if the microcode updates can somehow get better results out of their relatively poor performance.

The best thing about Zen 5 will be Turin. A true cloud chip.

STX looks like a decent purchase for webdevs honestly. Improved battery life, good browser and node.js performance.

 

[Mahboi]

STX looks like a decent purchase for webdevs honestly. Improved battery life, good browser and node.js performance.

I've been restraining from buying one of those tiny cheapo Zen 3 mini PCs for months despite the click finger itching so bad.
6 Zen 3 cores, 32Go RAM, crappy quality but a lot better than a raspberry Pi, perfect for a home server.
My ultimate copium is that when Kraken will come out, 8 Z5 cores at low as heck power will be much better for web.
AMD, you better vindicate my copium to the max. Even on that Samsung lithography.

 

[Joe NYC]

Crazy lower numbers, from LTT Youtube test.

View attachment 104665

9700x is rebadged EPYC 4005

 

[poke01]

I think and still do that STX Halo is the best thing to come out Zen5 family. Zen5 core is no longer stuck to dual channel but quad channel for client and yeah RAM is soldered but its fast RAM.

 

[Mahboi]

I think and still do that STX Halo is the best thing to come out Zen5 family. Zen5 core is no longer stuck to dual channel but quad channel for client and yeah RAM is soldered but its fast RAM.

Any info on how they ended up with that atrocious latency though? Someone pointed out that it's somehow worse than Zen freaking 2.

 

[poke01]

Any info on how they ended up with that atrocious latency though? Someone pointed out that it's somehow worse than Zen freaking 2.

no Zen5C cores on STX halo? Its all P cores.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

I think and still do that STX Halo is the best thing to come out Zen5 family. Zen5 core is no longer stuck to dual channel but quad channel for client and yeah RAM is soldered but its fast RAM.

It is. The only thing in the entire lineup with a non-cope memory subsystem lol

 

[Mahboi]

no Zen5C cores on STX halo? Its all P cores.

Oh I read it as "STX Point", weird phrasing to say " is the best thing" when it hasn't come out yet. Nevermind then.

 

[poke01]

Oh I read it as "STX Point", weird phrasing to say " is the best thing" when it hasn't come out yet. Nevermind then.

sorry, I time travelled a bit there.

 

[Mahboi]

Truly the Zen 5 Hype Train and its legendary time travel abilities.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Truly the Zen 5 Hype Train and its legendary time travel abilities.

40% ahead of the present time.

 

[Mahboi]

40% ahead of the present time.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmh, I wonder Marty, I wonder.
If anything, we're having fun.
But I think we lost a wheel somewhere, it's like the 40% lost the 0.

 

[Joe NYC]

I've been restraining from buying one of those tiny cheapo Zen 3 mini PCs for months despite the click finger itching so bad.
6 Zen 3 cores, 32Go RAM, crappy quality but a lot better than a raspberry Pi, perfect for a home server.
My ultimate copium is that when Kraken will come out, 8 Z5 cores at low as heck power will be much better for web.
AMD, you better vindicate my copium to the max. Even on that Samsung lithography.

MinisForum has a brand new MiniPC using HawkPoint CPU, and adds some nice IO features.

The advantage of HawkPoint vs. either StrixPoint or Kraken is that it has 8 full cores and there is no need for Windows 11 for improved scheduling of dense cores.

 

[Thunder 57]

Any info on how they ended up with that atrocious latency though? Someone pointed out that it's somehow worse than Zen freaking 2.

Isn't it using LPRDDR? That isn't great latency wise.

 

[Mahboi]

Isn't it using LPRDDR? That isn't great latency wise.

Sure but it's the inter-CCX latency that is truly abysmal.
This is why you somehow get better gaming perf limiting to the 4 full cores than having all 12 active, although the power draw gets quite a lot worse.
From Anandtech review:

Can't find the vid anymore, but I also saw a bench where they got about 10-15% better performance with just the 4 full cores, while the power draw jumped from 21W to 28W.

Frankly there's a lot to unpack in terms of imbalance and Zen5c sizes. David Huang also pointed out that Zen5c is so compact that it basically loses any point above 2Ghz, you're just better off using Zen 5 full.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821108792643481919

 

[PJVol]

Nice, reviews are up. But where is the efficiency? What's up with "ground-up" re-design... wait for Zen6? )

 

[Joe NYC]

It's almost like AMD has decided the non-3D is for productivity and the 3D is for gaming.....

Or, AMD is aiming to take a big bite out of Intel's commercial desktop monopoly.

 

[RnR_au]

Maybe AMD is simply acknowledging that the 3D vcache models are the gaming CPUs and non are primarily work focused.

The interesting thing is that there are multiple reviews now that calls the 9600X the best budget gaming cpu. Its weird how some reviewers are calling the release a flop. According to some, AMD will have the best value gaming cpu and once the X3D parts arrive, the best gaming cpu bar none.