Z06 vs F430 vs 911 Turbo

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OatMan

Senior member
Aug 2, 2001
677
0
71
Hey I just had my Corrado VR6 in for a minor repair and I was looking at a few of the new Porsches...

I've read a lot about the new 'Vette especially the Z06. For the money its a hell of a lot of car. It even handles like a sports car for a change. (not that past 'vettes haven't handeled well, but they have never really been in the same league as porsche, farrari, etc.)

anyway I've never driven a 911 turbo. I've never driven any fararri. I have driven several 'vettes, and a few porsches.

considdering the Z06 is like 60K and the 911 turbo is at least twice that, and the Fararri even more expensive, my money would be on the 'vette if given the option for those three.

But like I said I just was at the porsche dealer and checking out the new Cayman and Cayman S.

What a gorgous car. It is amazing. Overpriced, but not 911 overpriced. Not nearly as powerful as the Z06 for the same money, but still plenty fast and quick. But it drives like butta.

It reminds me a lot of an old 914 an older guy in my neighborhood had when I was a kid (don't laugh the vw porsche was killer). He had salvaged and stripped it and built it into a club racer. The thing was unbelievable. It was the most neutral car I have ever driven. It would oversteer, understeer, drift any way you wanted and totally predictable.

The Cayman S reminded me a lot of that, well in so far as I could tell in a test drive with a porsche sales person, ahem I mean 'specialist' sitting next to me. They had the non 'S' caymans just come in, but they were still covered up and not available for test drives yet.

I was pretty smitten, and a new car is NOT in the budget but I have to admit that as much as I have loved my Carrado, its 14 years old (a '93 SLC) and I'm itchin' for a change. I wonder if I can get a good deal on a slightly used '06 leftover from the dealer... They have at least 6 or 7 on the lot that I could see, and a few more that were still undriven brand new '06 left overs.

I have to find some time to test drive the new 'vette though...

I have to say that I like the direction they are taking with the styling of the new 'vettes. At first I didn't like that they were kind of going 'foriegn' in their look. I always like that corvettes were somehow american in styling. I still think the stingray 'vettes of the late 60's early 70s and the curvey 70's vettes are among the coolest looking cars ever! (unfortunately the 70s 'vettes pretty much were pieces of shiznet) So the new direction seemed like wanabe ugly stepsister fararri's or sort of more muscular NSX's. I didn't like them, but now they have been refined and have won me over, though I still don't understand why they can't seem to make the rear end look good. 'Vette's have the ugliest rear ends of any sports car. They look awfull from a rear view or even rear 3/4 view. But the new one isn't nearly as bad as the last few efforts...

anyway I'll never be able to afford a 911 turbo or farrari or any other supercar. But a 'vette is something I could get if I was willing to put out the effort. Perhaps in three years or so I could afford something well treated from the used market.

But that Cayman is calling to me... The boxster didn't do much for me, and I'm not a convertable sort of guy... and to be fair the cayman is much more than simply a hard top boxster, but I still think its overpriced. Then again, its a porsche, its not supposed to be a value car.

So if its my money its the 'vette Z06 from what I've heard. If its given to me free and someone throws in a few years of insurence and a wherehouse of parts... ****** Its got to be the farrari!!! no offence to the 911 Turbo, but I see them all the time, I rarely see any farrir's so the cool factor is just too much. But then why stop there? I'd sure like to try a Bugatti Vyron or Lamorgini to see how it fits :)
 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
0
Originally posted by: andylawcc
Originally posted by: bR
Challenge Stradale FTW :heart:

there are no F430 CS yet right?

nah. they have a challenge car already so maybe it won't be long before there is one.

the old CS is almost, if not just as fast, as the F430. but even if it's slower it's still my favorite. :D
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
39
91
car isn't just about performance and how fast it could go around the track. Driving pleasure and the entire thrill to driving the car is part of it too. Not to mention the looks you would get from driving a ferrari ;)
I'd take the F430 anyday.
 

SophalotJack

Banned
Jan 6, 2006
1,252
0
0
In the sheer spirit of being a bargain finder, I would go for the Z06.

If I had a choice of getting one without worrying about money.... Ferrari all the way.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: mariok2006
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
What would you choose:

Entry level Ferrari

Entry level Porsche

Entry level Chevy

heres your entry level ferrari lol

It has a FIAT badge on it, you nob. 'lol'

PS: Google Fiat Panda, you need to expand your car knowledge.

hey noob, you realize that fiat owns ferrari rite?


Oh yeah, I didn't know that... :roll: I'm hardly a car noob.

Take a look at the badge on the front of a FIAT. Does it look like a prancing horse to you? Now look at the badge on the Matiz vs the Corvette.

Now do you get my point? Have I laid it bare enough for your fragile mind to absorb?
 

maziwanka

Lifer
Jul 4, 2000
10,415
1
0
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Originally posted by: maziwanka
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments

First, please learn the language.

Second, Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability which is definately not something you can say of any Chevrolet.......Although, I would guess the ZO6 is as reliable as the Ferrari, it's fit and finish are 3 leagues lower or more.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: maziwanka
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments

First, please learn the language.

Second, Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability which is definately not something you can say of any Chevrolet.......Although, I would guess the ZO6 is as reliable as the Ferrari, it's fit and finish are 3 leagues lower or more.


No they do not by a long shot. They have improved a lot over the last 10 years or so since they went to water cooled engines, but they are still not near the reliability of a Toyota, GM, or honda. Look up any JD power report and those 3 are the top for car lines. I have worked on a lot of Prosches, reliability was never a word I used when working on them or telling others about them.
The Corvette though is one of the most reliabile sports cars on the road, let alone also gets some of the best gas milage and is easy to maintain and keep up.
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: maziwanka
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments

First, please learn the language.

Second, Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability which is definately not something you can say of any Chevrolet.......Although, I would guess the ZO6 is as reliable as the Ferrari, it's fit and finish are 3 leagues lower or more.


No they do not by a long shot. They have improved a lot over the last 10 years or so since they went to water cooled engines, but they are still not near the reliability of a Toyota, GM, or honda. Look up any JD power report and those 3 are the top for car lines. I have worked on a lot of Prosches, reliability was never a word I used when working on them or telling others about them.
The Corvette though is one of the most reliabile sports cars on the road, let alone also gets some of the best gas milage and is easy to maintain and keep up.

Actually, yes they do.......just shows you've been spouting misinformation to people who's cars you've worked on for awhile now. I've never had a problem with the 3 Porsche's I've owned.........funny that Porsche ranked #1 ahead of Toyota and Lexus for 2006 and has been pretty consistantly near the top for the last 6 years except for when the Cayenne was released which had numerous initial problems mainly due to so many parts being sourced from Volkwagen. Is that not Toyota-like enough for you?

Also, please explain to me how working on broken Porsche's- something you obviously weren't primarily doing or it would have been originally mentioned- shows that they aren't reliable? Don't you only work on a vehicle that's having an issue? How does that qualify you to talk about the entire brand? I've also worked on my own enough to see the quality engineering. Porsche's engines are bulletproof and all you have to do is look at the numerous numbers of 911's out there with 100k miles +++++++++.........

Here's a link to JD Power's 2006 rating showing Porsche as #1 overall; what was that BS you were spouting about checking out JD power again???
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082

Quoted: "Porsche and Lexus lead the luxury brands, while Hyundai, Toyota and Honda set the pace among non-luxury brands. Averaging just 91 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles, Porsche tops the overall nameplate rankings. Porsche?s success can be partly attributed to the all-new Cayman, which tops the compact premium sporty car segment. Porsche is followed in the rankings by Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota and Jaguar, respectively."

Isn't that crazy how the Cayman is a brand-new car and it's still the most reliable compact premium sports coupe?

And then you say that GM is higher then Porsche for reliability? Please pass the weed you're smoking because it must be some good stuff......
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: maziwanka
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments

First, please learn the language.

Second, Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability which is definately not something you can say of any Chevrolet.......Although, I would guess the ZO6 is as reliable as the Ferrari, it's fit and finish are 3 leagues lower or more.


No they do not by a long shot. They have improved a lot over the last 10 years or so since they went to water cooled engines, but they are still not near the reliability of a Toyota, GM, or honda. Look up any JD power report and those 3 are the top for car lines. I have worked on a lot of Prosches, reliability was never a word I used when working on them or telling others about them.
The Corvette though is one of the most reliabile sports cars on the road, let alone also gets some of the best gas milage and is easy to maintain and keep up.

Actually, yes they do.......just shows you've been spouting misinformation to people who's cars you've worked on for awhile now. I've never had a problem with the 3 Porsche's I've owned.........funny that Porsche ranked #1 ahead of Toyota and Lexus for 2006 and has been pretty consistantly near the top for the last 6 years except for when the Cayenne was released which had numerous initial problems mainly due to so many parts being sourced from Volkwagen. Is that not Toyota-like enough for you?

Also, please explain to me how working on broken Porsche's- something you obviously weren't primarily doing or it would have been originally mentioned- shows that they aren't reliable? Don't you only work on a vehicle that's having an issue? How does that qualify you to talk about the entire brand? I've also worked on my own enough to see the quality engineering. Porsche's engines are bulletproof and all you have to do is look at the numerous numbers of 911's out there with 100k miles +++++++++.........

Here's a link to JD Power's 2006 rating showing Porsche as #1 overall; what was that BS you were spouting about checking out JD power again???
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082

Quoted: "Porsche and Lexus lead the luxury brands, while Hyundai, Toyota and Honda set the pace among non-luxury brands. Averaging just 91 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles, Porsche tops the overall nameplate rankings. Porsche?s success can be partly attributed to the all-new Cayman, which tops the compact premium sporty car segment. Porsche is followed in the rankings by Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota and Jaguar, respectively."

Isn't that crazy how the Cayman is a brand-new car and it's still the most reliable compact sports coupe?

And then you say that GM is higher then Porsche for reliability? Please pass the weed you're smoking because it must be some good stuff......



Can you even read what you posted?

"Initial Quality"

Thats great if you keep a car for a year and trade it in, but what happens when it is out of warrenty and it has to come to someone like me. Even porsche owners admit their cars are not the best in reliability let alone what it cost for parts and just basic upkeep.
I have been an auto tech for over 10years. Guess what 2 car lines I specialized in? The first was GM, directly with port injected engines, and the 2nd was water cooled Porsches. I have stripped down many porches from engines to transaxles. I think I might have a little more insight then you in this matter.
As I said before, porsche has gotten much better. But long term they will start to have issues.


http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc=3128339010848601#

"Reliability Index 257.97"
"The Reliability index takes into account all factors of a repair, the cost of the parts and the frequency of failures - Average is 112 which means that if the figure for the car you are looking at has a higher than average index (118) the indication is that that car is less reliable than the average..."


and

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217350&EL=3142813
"Its cars have the lowest mileages here, but its claims rate is relatively high at 29.6 per 100 vehicles.

As you?d expect, Porsche?s costly average repair bill of nearly £1000 is the highest in this year?s survey. Owners also have the second longest wait ? nearly five hours on average ? for repairs to be carried out."
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Some things to note:
The original Z06 (in the C4) was a competition package. Bringing it back to one makes sense.
For the price difference in the cars, you could get the Z06 as a track car, and a Cayman or S2000 as a daily driver, or you could get a truck and trailer.
Ferrari's are VERY HIGH MAINTENANCE vehicles. Ferrari's philosophy: if you can't afford the expensive maintenance, we don't want you seen in our cars.
When they throw a $70k car against a $150k car, I sure as hell hope that the more expensive one has something up on the cheaper one.
Porsche repairs aren't cheap, though they're still more reasonable than the Ferrari's.

C&D seems to be doing mis-matched price comparisons alot more lately.
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: maziwanka
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments

First, please learn the language.

Second, Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability which is definately not something you can say of any Chevrolet.......Although, I would guess the ZO6 is as reliable as the Ferrari, it's fit and finish are 3 leagues lower or more.


No they do not by a long shot. They have improved a lot over the last 10 years or so since they went to water cooled engines, but they are still not near the reliability of a Toyota, GM, or honda. Look up any JD power report and those 3 are the top for car lines. I have worked on a lot of Prosches, reliability was never a word I used when working on them or telling others about them.
The Corvette though is one of the most reliabile sports cars on the road, let alone also gets some of the best gas milage and is easy to maintain and keep up.

Actually, yes they do.......just shows you've been spouting misinformation to people who's cars you've worked on for awhile now. I've never had a problem with the 3 Porsche's I've owned.........funny that Porsche ranked #1 ahead of Toyota and Lexus for 2006 and has been pretty consistantly near the top for the last 6 years except for when the Cayenne was released which had numerous initial problems mainly due to so many parts being sourced from Volkwagen. Is that not Toyota-like enough for you?

Also, please explain to me how working on broken Porsche's- something you obviously weren't primarily doing or it would have been originally mentioned- shows that they aren't reliable? Don't you only work on a vehicle that's having an issue? How does that qualify you to talk about the entire brand? I've also worked on my own enough to see the quality engineering. Porsche's engines are bulletproof and all you have to do is look at the numerous numbers of 911's out there with 100k miles +++++++++.........

Here's a link to JD Power's 2006 rating showing Porsche as #1 overall; what was that BS you were spouting about checking out JD power again???
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082

Quoted: "Porsche and Lexus lead the luxury brands, while Hyundai, Toyota and Honda set the pace among non-luxury brands. Averaging just 91 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles, Porsche tops the overall nameplate rankings. Porsche?s success can be partly attributed to the all-new Cayman, which tops the compact premium sporty car segment. Porsche is followed in the rankings by Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota and Jaguar, respectively."

Isn't that crazy how the Cayman is a brand-new car and it's still the most reliable compact sports coupe?

And then you say that GM is higher then Porsche for reliability? Please pass the weed you're smoking because it must be some good stuff......



Can you even read what you posted?

"Initial Quality"

Thats great if you keep a car for a year and trade it in, but what happens when it is out of warrenty and it has to come to someone like me. Even porsche owners admit their cars are not the best in reliability let alone what it cost for parts and just basic upkeep.
I have been an auto tech for over 10years. Guess what 2 car lines I specialized in? The first was GM, directly with port injected engines, and the 2nd was water cooled Porsches. I have stripped down many porches from engines to transaxles. I think I might have a little more insight then you in this matter.
As I said before, porsche has gotten much better. But long term they will start to have issues.


http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc=3128339010848601#

"Reliability Index 257.97"
"The Reliability index takes into account all factors of a repair, the cost of the parts and the frequency of failures - Average is 112 which means that if the figure for the car you are looking at has a higher than average index (118) the indication is that that car is less reliable than the average..."


and

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217350&EL=3142813
"Its cars have the lowest mileages here, but its claims rate is relatively high at 29.6 per 100 vehicles.

As you?d expect, Porsche?s costly average repair bill of nearly £1000 is the highest in this year?s survey. Owners also have the second longest wait ? nearly five hours on average ? for repairs to be carried out."

You mentioned JD Power- you were wrong.....now you are showing 2 links both showing info from the same company. So showing a link to an index that takes into account part cost and repair time prove that a Porsche is less reliable? Personally, I would expect repair cost to run similiar to price. If I'm paying 3x as much for a car I am going to expect repairs to cost 3x as much as well..........good job finding a site in the UK to point out your info when the first one you mentioned showed the exact opposite..........

Also this comment is bullshit: " Even porsche owners admit their cars are not the best in reliability let alone what it cost for parts and just basic upkeep."

I own Porsche and I don't admit that. Of course you can find some who will- as you could with any brand including your beloved GM which I'm sure you can find alot more to attest to that (not only numbers of people but % of owners as well).......the majority of Porsche owners I've talked to would definately disagree with you.
Yes, repair parts and maintenance costs are very high- ever heard "you gotta pay to play"........Anyone who buys an expensive automobile and doesn't expect higher repairs is kidding themselves.
Anyways, you're the one who spouted the BS about JD Power in the first place so don't complain to me. If you research JD Power history- most cars that are ranked high in initial quality continue to be ranked highly for long term as well...........
And I used to own an 86 944 Turbo- used it as a daily driver for 5 years before I got my 911.......still own the 944T and it's running strong after 20 years with no major engine or drivetrain issues ever......
 

broon

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2002
3,660
1
81
Some of their comparos show their bias to specific cars. When you take the numbers in the final rating, the "gotta have it factor" allows them to ensure the car they like the best wins. In this case, throw that figure out and the Ferrari would be third, the vette second, and the 911 first.
 

feelingshorter

Platinum Member
May 5, 2004
2,439
0
71
Doesnt surprise me that the vet z06 had the best lap time of the three as its like 500 hp (i think), and its paper light...but it can max out at like 200 mph? not that you can go that fast without losing control. With an added spoiler, i believe it can hit over.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Originally posted by: broon
Some of their comparos show their bias to specific cars. When you take the numbers in the final rating, the "gotta have it factor" allows them to ensure the car they like the best wins. In this case, throw that figure out and the Ferrari would be third, the vette second, and the 911 first.

Like in thier sports coupe comparison where they got the autocross (ACR) package on the Neon SRT-4, then complained that it was tuned for the autocross and awarded the RSX which was FAR from the fastest car the win?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,382
45,830
136
Originally posted by: feelingshorter
Doesnt surprise me that the vet z06 had the best lap time of the three as its like 500 hp (i think), and its paper light...but it can max out at like 200 mph? not that you can go that fast without losing control. With an added spoiler, i believe it can hit over.

IIRC, John Lingenfelter (may he rest in peace) personally got one of his older twin turbo vettes up to almost 230mph on the track.

I can only imagine what a ZO6 427TT would top out at.

 

Jawo

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,125
0
0
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
I love corvettes, but I love Ferarri's even more. So because of price I would take the F430.

I like your thinking!!! If I was buying I would get the Z06 any day...the new wireless keys kinda worries me though
 

feelingshorter

Platinum Member
May 5, 2004
2,439
0
71
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: maziwanka
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments

First, please learn the language.

Second, Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability which is definately not something you can say of any Chevrolet.......Although, I would guess the ZO6 is as reliable as the Ferrari, it's fit and finish are 3 leagues lower or more.


No they do not by a long shot. They have improved a lot over the last 10 years or so since they went to water cooled engines, but they are still not near the reliability of a Toyota, GM, or honda. Look up any JD power report and those 3 are the top for car lines. I have worked on a lot of Prosches, reliability was never a word I used when working on them or telling others about them.
The Corvette though is one of the most reliabile sports cars on the road, let alone also gets some of the best gas milage and is easy to maintain and keep up.

Actually, yes they do.......just shows you've been spouting misinformation to people who's cars you've worked on for awhile now. I've never had a problem with the 3 Porsche's I've owned.........funny that Porsche ranked #1 ahead of Toyota and Lexus for 2006 and has been pretty consistantly near the top for the last 6 years except for when the Cayenne was released which had numerous initial problems mainly due to so many parts being sourced from Volkwagen. Is that not Toyota-like enough for you?

Also, please explain to me how working on broken Porsche's- something you obviously weren't primarily doing or it would have been originally mentioned- shows that they aren't reliable? Don't you only work on a vehicle that's having an issue? How does that qualify you to talk about the entire brand? I've also worked on my own enough to see the quality engineering. Porsche's engines are bulletproof and all you have to do is look at the numerous numbers of 911's out there with 100k miles +++++++++.........

Here's a link to JD Power's 2006 rating showing Porsche as #1 overall; what was that BS you were spouting about checking out JD power again???
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082

Quoted: "Porsche and Lexus lead the luxury brands, while Hyundai, Toyota and Honda set the pace among non-luxury brands. Averaging just 91 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles, Porsche tops the overall nameplate rankings. Porsche?s success can be partly attributed to the all-new Cayman, which tops the compact premium sporty car segment. Porsche is followed in the rankings by Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota and Jaguar, respectively."

Isn't that crazy how the Cayman is a brand-new car and it's still the most reliable compact sports coupe?

And then you say that GM is higher then Porsche for reliability? Please pass the weed you're smoking because it must be some good stuff......



Can you even read what you posted?

"Initial Quality"

Thats great if you keep a car for a year and trade it in, but what happens when it is out of warrenty and it has to come to someone like me. Even porsche owners admit their cars are not the best in reliability let alone what it cost for parts and just basic upkeep.
I have been an auto tech for over 10years. Guess what 2 car lines I specialized in? The first was GM, directly with port injected engines, and the 2nd was water cooled Porsches. I have stripped down many porches from engines to transaxles. I think I might have a little more insight then you in this matter.
As I said before, porsche has gotten much better. But long term they will start to have issues.


http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc=3128339010848601#

"Reliability Index 257.97"
"The Reliability index takes into account all factors of a repair, the cost of the parts and the frequency of failures - Average is 112 which means that if the figure for the car you are looking at has a higher than average index (118) the indication is that that car is less reliable than the average..."


and

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217350&EL=3142813
"Its cars have the lowest mileages here, but its claims rate is relatively high at 29.6 per 100 vehicles.

As you?d expect, Porsche?s costly average repair bill of nearly £1000 is the highest in this year?s survey. Owners also have the second longest wait ? nearly five hours on average ? for repairs to be carried out."

You mentioned JD Power- you were wrong.....now you are showing 2 links both showing info from the same company. So showing a link to an index that takes into account part cost and repair time prove that a Porsche is less reliable? Personally, I would expect repair cost to run similiar to price. If I'm paying 3x as much for a car I am going to expect repairs to cost 3x as much as well..........good job finding a site in the UK to point out your info when the first one you mentioned showed the exact opposite..........

Also this comment is bullshit: " Even porsche owners admit their cars are not the best in reliability let alone what it cost for parts and just basic upkeep."

I own Porsche and I don't admit that. Of course you can find some who will- as you could with any brand including your beloved GM which I'm sure you can find alot more to attest to that (not only numbers of people but % of owners as well).......the majority of Porsche owners I've talked to would definately disagree with you.
Yes, repair parts and maintenance costs are very high- ever heard "you gotta pay to play"........Anyone who buys an expensive automobile and doesn't expect higher repairs is kidding themselves.
Anyways, you're the one who spouted the BS about JD Power in the first place so don't complain to me. If you research JD Power history- most cars that are ranked high in initial quality continue to be ranked highly for long term as well...........
And I used to own an 86 944 Turbo- used it as a daily driver for 5 years before I got my 911.......still own the 944T and it's running strong after 20 years with no major engine or drivetrain issues ever......

Yea but it still takes into account of the "frequency of failures." Initial quality and long term quality is different. Plus we dont know if the survey accounts for the relative high cost of car repairs to the high cost of the cars itself. I would think they would since its a professional survey and not some kid's high school essay. And about Porsche, its because of the Cayman S' reliablility that Porsche got bumped to the top. If not for that one car, they wouldnt be. I watched topgear and they did mention that one fact.

http://corp.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

2005 Inital Quality Test from JD Power (i used that since you used it to prove your point). Porsche ranked 5th from bottem with 147 problems.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004037

Thats for 2004, with Porsche ranking 3rd to last.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028

Porsche rank somewhere in the top there, but lets keep going back if you will for me as I?m too lazy. Your claim of "Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability" isn?t justified or proved quite yet. Toyotas are much more reliable than a Porsche and to compare it like that just isnt right; especially when Toyota has been known to rank top year after year CONSISTENTLY. Unlike Porsche which goes up and down.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2002040

Ok now lets take into the account that expensive cars = more expensive to repair. What about Ferrari or many other brand of expensive of cars? Why aren?t they, instead of Porsche last with "Claims per 100 vehicles: 29.6," and a "Average time for repair (hours): 4.9," especially on cars with only "Average mileage: 33,333."

Doesn?t say anything about Porsche as there isn?t anything good. But Corvette on the other hand "Premium Sports Car Chevrolet Corvette," best in its class.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
Originally posted by: feelingshorter

Ok now lets take into the account that expensive cars = more expensive to repair. What about Ferrari or many other brand of expensive of cars? Why aren?t they, instead of Porsche last with "Claims per 100 vehicles: 29.6," and a "Average time for repair (hours): 4.9," especially on cars with only "Average mileage: 33,333."

Doesn?t say anything about Porsche as there isn?t anything good. But Corvette on the other hand "Premium Sports Car Chevrolet Corvette," best in its class.

Ever see a Ferrari in the middle of a clutch replacement? The car has to be split in two just behind the doors.

Edit:
even if it doesn't break down, _MAINTENANCE_ costs for the Ferrari and Porsche are much more expensive. Things like clutches, brakes, and fluid replacement cost more, and happen more often, but aren't called "problems"
 

hysperion

Senior member
May 12, 2004
837
0
0
Originally posted by: feelingshorter
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: hysperion
Originally posted by: maziwanka
z06 won't last as long? as what? the ferrari or the porsche? HAHAHAHAHA

learn before making assinine comments

First, please learn the language.

Second, Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability which is definately not something you can say of any Chevrolet.......Although, I would guess the ZO6 is as reliable as the Ferrari, it's fit and finish are 3 leagues lower or more.


No they do not by a long shot. They have improved a lot over the last 10 years or so since they went to water cooled engines, but they are still not near the reliability of a Toyota, GM, or honda. Look up any JD power report and those 3 are the top for car lines. I have worked on a lot of Prosches, reliability was never a word I used when working on them or telling others about them.
The Corvette though is one of the most reliabile sports cars on the road, let alone also gets some of the best gas milage and is easy to maintain and keep up.

Actually, yes they do.......just shows you've been spouting misinformation to people who's cars you've worked on for awhile now. I've never had a problem with the 3 Porsche's I've owned.........funny that Porsche ranked #1 ahead of Toyota and Lexus for 2006 and has been pretty consistantly near the top for the last 6 years except for when the Cayenne was released which had numerous initial problems mainly due to so many parts being sourced from Volkwagen. Is that not Toyota-like enough for you?

Also, please explain to me how working on broken Porsche's- something you obviously weren't primarily doing or it would have been originally mentioned- shows that they aren't reliable? Don't you only work on a vehicle that's having an issue? How does that qualify you to talk about the entire brand? I've also worked on my own enough to see the quality engineering. Porsche's engines are bulletproof and all you have to do is look at the numerous numbers of 911's out there with 100k miles +++++++++.........

Here's a link to JD Power's 2006 rating showing Porsche as #1 overall; what was that BS you were spouting about checking out JD power again???
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006082

Quoted: "Porsche and Lexus lead the luxury brands, while Hyundai, Toyota and Honda set the pace among non-luxury brands. Averaging just 91 problems per 100 (PP100) vehicles, Porsche tops the overall nameplate rankings. Porsche?s success can be partly attributed to the all-new Cayman, which tops the compact premium sporty car segment. Porsche is followed in the rankings by Lexus, Hyundai, Toyota and Jaguar, respectively."

Isn't that crazy how the Cayman is a brand-new car and it's still the most reliable compact sports coupe?

And then you say that GM is higher then Porsche for reliability? Please pass the weed you're smoking because it must be some good stuff......



Can you even read what you posted?

"Initial Quality"

Thats great if you keep a car for a year and trade it in, but what happens when it is out of warrenty and it has to come to someone like me. Even porsche owners admit their cars are not the best in reliability let alone what it cost for parts and just basic upkeep.
I have been an auto tech for over 10years. Guess what 2 car lines I specialized in? The first was GM, directly with port injected engines, and the 2nd was water cooled Porsches. I have stripped down many porches from engines to transaxles. I think I might have a little more insight then you in this matter.
As I said before, porsche has gotten much better. But long term they will start to have issues.


http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc=3128339010848601#

"Reliability Index 257.97"
"The Reliability index takes into account all factors of a repair, the cost of the parts and the frequency of failures - Average is 112 which means that if the figure for the car you are looking at has a higher than average index (118) the indication is that that car is less reliable than the average..."


and

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217350&EL=3142813
"Its cars have the lowest mileages here, but its claims rate is relatively high at 29.6 per 100 vehicles.

As you?d expect, Porsche?s costly average repair bill of nearly £1000 is the highest in this year?s survey. Owners also have the second longest wait ? nearly five hours on average ? for repairs to be carried out."

You mentioned JD Power- you were wrong.....now you are showing 2 links both showing info from the same company. So showing a link to an index that takes into account part cost and repair time prove that a Porsche is less reliable? Personally, I would expect repair cost to run similiar to price. If I'm paying 3x as much for a car I am going to expect repairs to cost 3x as much as well..........good job finding a site in the UK to point out your info when the first one you mentioned showed the exact opposite..........

Also this comment is bullshit: " Even porsche owners admit their cars are not the best in reliability let alone what it cost for parts and just basic upkeep."

I own Porsche and I don't admit that. Of course you can find some who will- as you could with any brand including your beloved GM which I'm sure you can find alot more to attest to that (not only numbers of people but % of owners as well).......the majority of Porsche owners I've talked to would definately disagree with you.
Yes, repair parts and maintenance costs are very high- ever heard "you gotta pay to play"........Anyone who buys an expensive automobile and doesn't expect higher repairs is kidding themselves.
Anyways, you're the one who spouted the BS about JD Power in the first place so don't complain to me. If you research JD Power history- most cars that are ranked high in initial quality continue to be ranked highly for long term as well...........
And I used to own an 86 944 Turbo- used it as a daily driver for 5 years before I got my 911.......still own the 944T and it's running strong after 20 years with no major engine or drivetrain issues ever......

Yea but it still takes into account of the "frequency of failures." Initial quality and long term quality is different. Plus we dont know if the survey accounts for the relative high cost of car repairs to the high cost of the cars itself. I would think they would since its a professional survey and not some kid's high school essay. And about Porsche, its because of the Cayman S' reliablility that Porsche got bumped to the top. If not for that one car, they wouldnt be. I watched topgear and they did mention that one fact.

http://corp.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

2005 Inital Quality Test from JD Power (i used that since you used it to prove your point). Porsche ranked 5th from bottem with 147 problems.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004037

Thats for 2004, with Porsche ranking 3rd to last.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028

Porsche rank somewhere in the top there, but lets keep going back if you will for me as I?m too lazy. Your claim of "Porsche 911's have Toyota-like reliability" isn?t justified or proved quite yet. Toyotas are much more reliable than a Porsche and to compare it like that just isnt right; especially when Toyota has been known to rank top year after year CONSISTENTLY. Unlike Porsche which goes up and down.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2002040

Ok now lets take into the account that expensive cars = more expensive to repair. What about Ferrari or many other brand of expensive of cars? Why aren?t they, instead of Porsche last with "Claims per 100 vehicles: 29.6," and a "Average time for repair (hours): 4.9," especially on cars with only "Average mileage: 33,333."

Doesn?t say anything about Porsche as there isn?t anything good. But Corvette on the other hand "Premium Sports Car Chevrolet Corvette," best in its class.

First off- I said that the Porsche 911 had Toyota-like reliabilty. I specifically mentioned the 911 model yet every link you point out lists Porsche overall. You even acknowledged I said the 911 by including it in what you quoted from me...........Kinda makes your entire point null doesn't it?

Why isn't Ferrari last? Simple if you looked at the link you would see they aren't even compared or no doubt they would be down there.......congratulations on making that worthless point.......

The 911 has won best in it's class premium sports car from JD Power- I think they're ahead of whatcar.com in the reputation department..........again congrats on using whatcar.com to prove your point.........

And yes, Porsche overall did rank low in 04 and 05......04' they had numerous problems with the VW sourced Cayenne which significantly dropped them in the rankings and in 05' the boxster and 911 were brand new as well as the Cayenne still being an overall piece of crap..............when you only have a few models of cars- obviously big problems with one is going to lead to an extremely lower rating for your brand.......besides- it's 06 right? Why are you even showing previous years? Funny how you stopped at 04' to prove your point because in 03' Porsche was #2............

Good job- I guess topgear proved that Porsche only won because of the Cayman S.....why was the 911 the #2 premium sports car then? Isn't the 911 Porsche's flagship?

Again, where did I even say "Porsche has Toyota-like reliability".........I said the "Porsche 911 has Toyota-like reliability"..........and guess what- it's true..............

06' Porsche 911 #2 after Lexus SC430, #3 is the Vette- not bad........
05' P 911 is the highest ranked premium sports car in the long term study and 3rd in initial quality behind the 350z and the S2000 which are hardly premium sports cars.......
http://www.pfblog.com/archives/2369_jd_...5_vehicle_initial_quality_survey.shtml
04' P 911 is #1 for Premium sports car Initial quality.......
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004037
03' P 911 is #1 for long term
http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/08/pf/autos/bc.autos.durability/index.htm?cnn=yes
00' P 911 was #1 for initial quality
And I haven't looked at all the years- just what I found doing a little googling......hard to find info for who got 2nd, 3rd etc below 04'.....

The vet won some awards in 01 and 02 it appears- this lists alot of the winners.... http://www.carfax.com/DP_Rpt_Links/JD_Award_Winners.cfm .........isn't it crazy though how in the 8 years JD power has rated premium sports cars the 911 has always been one of the highest rated?............yes a Vette is a great car but the fit, finish and design are not Porsche......
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: BouZouki
The 911 turbo is the ultimate car out of the bunch you can have as a DAILY DRIVER hands down.

Take an Aston Martin , Ferrari, Lambo, whatever, it won't fit a person as a daily driver.

The 911 rocks, it's like Clark Kent, something you can drive to work and something you can take to the track afterwords.

Thats what do great about it.

The Cayman chassis is also AMAZING from what everyone says.

an aston won't work as a daily driver? are you talking about because of reliability or what?

That's the only reason I can think of why an Aston isn't suitable as a daily driver. They've improved over the years, but still far from stellar.