Yowsa! Apple Power Mac G5 specs: Dual G5 2 GHz with PCI-X and 1 GHz bus - $2999 and faster than dual Xeon 3.0 GHz.

[gramboh]

2999 USD for Dual G5 2ghz with 2gig RAM, SCSI and 9700 Pro? I'd be stunned, expecting 3500 minimum, more likele 3750 or 3999. It will be an awesome machine, and again OSX is awesome, but aren't you offended that Apple takes a 30% profit margin on their top line systems? Margins on PC hardware are much thinner (taking into account manufacturer, wholesaler margins, not just end retailer).

BTW If you are into tweaking you can make any Linux GUI just like OSX.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

A reason I'm not as suspect of the specs (all though they do seem too good to be true) is that Apple doesn't worry about legacy hardware the way the Windows/x86 world has to.

Legacy hardware has nothing to do with it.

They ditched floppies, PS/2, parallel ports, ect. years ago so I wouldn't be too surprised to see new tech become standard Mac issue before it gets a foot hold in the x86 world.

I would, considering Intel is the one who is designing the technology. And if Intel ain't finished then Apple isn't gonna be using it.

I think legacy hardware has a lot to do w/it. Apple has a captive audience compared to x86 PC makers. If all of a sudden Dell dropped the floppy drive and all i/o ports save for networking, USB, and Firewire I think that would negatively impact their sales because x86 users would go to HP, IBM, or Gateway. But since Apple is the only one who makes Macs they are much freer to do w/their hardware as they see fit.


As far as PCI-X... it started getting used in servers last year, and a new version, PCI-X 2.0, will soon hit the server world. So it's not like Apple is using some unfinished tech. They are just the first to bring it, according to the "leak", into the desktop realm.


Lethal

 

[xype]

Originally posted by: grambohIt will be an awesome machine, and again OSX is awesome, but aren't you offended that Apple takes a 30% profit margin on their top line systems?

Why should one be? I mean, it's not like Apple isn't at least trying to please the customer all around. Sleek design, regular OS updates, free developer tools, free iApps and the "it works" promise. For the 30% I am actually happy that Apple is trying to be on the cutting edge (and now it looks like they have the CPU/bus to go with, too).

Originally posted by: grambohBTW If you are into tweaking you can make any Linux GUI just like OSX.

Uhm, yah, right. I've used KDE 3 and if anything, you can have an OSX theme, not more. Unless you want to rewrite it completely to get the Finder functionality. It's not about the looks only.

 

[Snoop]

I think legacy hardware has a lot to do w/it. Apple has a captive audience compared to x86 PC makers. If all of a sudden Dell dropped the floppy drive and all i/o ports save for networking, USB, and Firewire I think that would negatively impact their sales because x86 users would go to HP, IBM, or Gateway. But since Apple is the only one who makes Macs they are much freer to do w/their hardware as they see fit.

Much like how Apple sells service packs for their operating systems as 'new' operating systems and dumps support of 1 year old os's. OSX>Jaguar>Panther

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: Snoop

I think legacy hardware has a lot to do w/it. Apple has a captive audience compared to x86 PC makers. If all of a sudden Dell dropped the floppy drive and all i/o ports save for networking, USB, and Firewire I think that would negatively impact their sales because x86 users would go to HP, IBM, or Gateway. But since Apple is the only one who makes Macs they are much freer to do w/their hardware as they see fit.

Much like how Apple sells service packs for their operating systems as 'new' operating systems and dumps support of 1 year old os's. OSX>Jaguar>Panther

I guess I never looked at it like that. But there is debate as to whether Panther will be free or charged because the upgrade from 10 to 10.1 was free. And the then upgrade from 10.1 to 10.2 (Jag) was not. So we'll see if there is a "pay for every other one" kinda plan in place or not. On the other hand I'm still running 10.1.5 and not having any problems. And they haven't dumped support of the older versions of X they just stopped upgrading them. There is a difference between the two.


Lethal

 

[OldSpooky]

I see that there is much price speculation. MacNStein, do your prices include a monitor, and if so, what kind?

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: OldSpooky
I see that there is much price speculation. MacNStein, do your prices include a monitor, and if so, what kind?

I'd be surprised if those prices included a monitor. PM prices have always been for the computer itself, no monitor included.


Lethal

 

[Random Variable]

It's too bad that Microsoft has stopped developing IE for Mac.

 

[BeauJangles]

Nice system, I would just never use a mac as my primary computer. Sorry, I like to play games and I have grown used to WinXP interface.

 

[xype]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
It's too bad that Microsoft has stopped developing IE for Mac.

It's just a clever decision on their part - compared to Safari it sucks and it doesn't make them any money, so why bother.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
It's too bad that Microsoft has stopped developing IE for Mac.

That's not really the bad a problem. IE for the Mac is dog, I mean, d&mn dog slow. Safari is coming along nicely and I think version 1.0 will be out soon.


Lethal

 

[Eug]

IE for the Mac is OK, but slow. Camino (based on Mozilla) is better. Safari is uber-fast and the sleekest of the bunch, but it is more beta than Camino. Mind you I think they're on beta 0.85, and I'm still running Safari 0.70.

Once the bugs are worked out, Safari has a chance at being the absolute best browser on any platform, because the interface is simply to die for. 1.0 is due out soon, but I wonder if it means 1.2 before it reaches that stage.

Anyways, I was in the Atlanta Apple Store today. I felt like telling everyone buying Power Macs to friggin' wait until Monday, but bit my tongue...

Made myself feel better by picking up a 15 GB iPod...

 

[BFG10K]

If all of a sudden Dell dropped the floppy drive and all i/o ports save for networking, USB, and Firewire I think that would negatively impact their sales because x86 users would go to HP, IBM, or Gateway.

I'll say it again - legacy hardware has absolutely nothing to do with it.

PS/2 ports do not stop USB from being used.
Floppy disk drives do not stop PCI express from being used.
Parellel ports do not stop firewire from being used.

Why should anybody drop any old tech if it doesn't make a shred of difference to the new tech? Apple is just using it as an excuse since they can screw customers with old tech.

 

[ViRGE]

BFG, because:

A) You're taking up space for old ports
B) The electronics for this stuff has to remain in the chipset
C) Legacy ports often require running more traces than current ports(25 traces for parallel vs. 4 for USB, and only 2 are data)
D) It holds back progress; people as a whole will not start using current ports if they can use old ports(see A), and as a result, the new stuff that the current ports were to enable will not come

 

[BFG10K]

A-C makes no difference to being able to use new tech combined with old tech and because of this, D makes no difference because new tech is still available. If people want to use old tech it's not the place of OEMs to force them to not use it like Apple does. Just put both of them on and let the users mix and match to their needs.

And as for price, well, Apple uses only new tech and they cost three times as much as a similar PC and they still have inferior expansion and hardware options. So obviously PCs' cost isn't affected by having old tech, especially since its so mature that it's a breeze to put it on.

Apple simply ditches old tech to rip-off customers and force them to buy new machines. If a PC OEM did that users would simply go to someone else because there is genuine competition in the x86 world, unlike in the Apple world.

 

[XBoxLPU]

IE sucks... for windows and Mac. I have to have a browser with tabs.......

I have had a Powerbook for about a month now, and so far everything has been very nice. Mac OS X takes a little time to learn but once you learn to get around, it is a great OS.

That being said, Windows XP on my pc works just as well.

 

[EdipisReks]

i want a 970 in a new 15 inch powerbook.

 

[XBoxLPU]

I doubt that will be in the new 15 inch powerbook

 

[addragyn]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Eug
and of course, OS X (and software) absolutely rocks.

...but there's no tinkering to be done!

With a BSD userland this is absolutely untrue. Add X11, and Fink. Not only is there tinkering to be done if you know what you're doing you can contribute code or suggestions.

Originally posted by: gramboh
These will be worthless in a matter of years.

I just sold a 2 G4 400 towers w/in the past month for $650 a pop. This is locally, all cash, no SW included. These machines were released in 1999! Not that I bought then, my interest in Macs came about with OS X and I purchased these used fairly recently. I made a few bucks on one machine and broke even on the other.

Originally posted by: Snoop
Much like how Apple sells service packs for their operating systems as 'new' operating systems and dumps support of 1 year old os's. OSX>Jaguar>Panther

A service pack fixes bugs. Jaguar added big features, e.g. a completely new graphics layer. Quartz Extreme is a pretty cool technology. Supposedly MS will be doing something similar w/ Longhorn. People said this same garbage when 2k and XP came out. If you want a free OS you have that alternative. You are also free to keep using your old software. It's not a subscription.

Updates, service packs, whatever-you-want-to-call-them, are free downloads.

Your claim about support being dropped is also not true.

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Nice system, I would just never use a mac as my primary computer. Sorry, I like to play games and I have grown used to WinXP interface.

STOP NEO-IMPERIALISM, DOWN WITH BUSH

That's ironic.

Originally posted by: BFG10K

If all of a sudden Dell dropped the floppy drive and all i/o ports save for networking, USB, and Firewire I think that would negatively impact their sales because x86 users would go to HP, IBM, or Gateway.

I'll say it again - legacy hardware has absolutely nothing to do with it.

PS/2 ports do not stop USB from being used.
Floppy disk drives do not stop PCI express from being used.
Parellel ports do not stop firewire from being used.

Why should anybody drop any old tech if it doesn't make a shred of difference to the new tech? Apple is just using it as an excuse since they can screw customers with old tech.

Dell foments floppy's fall, The floppy drive is heading toward extinction at Dell Computer. (news.com)

We've had IBM desktops show up w/ USB keyboards and no PS/2 ports.

Legacy hardware absolutely has something to do with it when you're writing the OS, drivers and making the hardware. Programmers, engineers, board space, ports, and testers are not free.

Screw customers!? That's rich. The headaches might go away if you loosen the tinfoil hat. Or maybe you're onto something - computing for the S&M crowd.

Originally posted by: BFG10K
And as for price, well, Apple uses only new tech and they cost three times as much as a similar PC and they still have inferior expansion and hardware options. So obviously PCs' cost isn't affected by having old tech, especially since its so mature that it's a breeze to put it on.

Apple simply ditches old tech to rip-off customers and force them to buy new machines. If a PC OEM did that users would simply go to someone else because there is genuine competition in the x86 world, unlike in the Apple world.

I'm sure the completely different business models, and to a lesser degree markets, of Apple and Dell and the order of magnitude volume difference have something to do with the price difference. I'm sure because it's obvious.

Bringing new technology is a feature, not a rip-off. It's an incentive to buy, not a forced decision.

Just like there is no competition in the Honda world? The Sun world? The Cisco world? The Ducati world? Want a Prelude then you're buying a Honda. Want IOS then buy Cisco. Want Solaris get a Sun. Want a Desmodromic V-Twin buy a Ducati. Apple is a brand, not a category! You want OS X you buy Apple. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[srk]

After hearing all this, still 1 most importing issue remains, whos gona use mac?
I wont, my favourate games wont work on it(except few), my favourate programs wont work on it, my favourate windows wont work on it...........
okok. i stretched it too much to include windows i agree....................lol

Apple seriously needs to think supportin x86 OS platforms and intercompatability so that user can choose to run OS they demand other than Mac Os 11x which is Due.

 

[todpod]

I for one will probably never by a mac, but I hope that these specs are right one the money and they sell a boatload of them. This will only force down prices of PCs and that is good for most of us.

 

[CaptKevMan]

As a longtime Apple user, I can say with relative confidence that the only people who seem to think Macs are overpriced are those who don't have to use them on a daily basis. Even though they're a bit more expensive, you get what you pay for: they're a breeze to use and almost nothing to maintain. That's the main reason why the "Mac faithful" have stuck with the platform, even though processor speeds have been passing us by...there's simply no replacing the end-user experience for us. WinXP is a nice try, but it's not quite up to OS X (10.2.6), IMO.

That's another thing that seems to cause confusion. OS X isn't numbered in the standard version numbering system; each decimal point is a major revision, the second decimal point is the bug-fix revision. Even 10.1 (although free) was a major update...it was just what 10.0 should've been, so it was a free upgrade. 10.2 was a major revision; 10.3 looks to be just as major.

OS X versions (and basic descriptions, as I have observed them)
10.0 (first release, really more of a beta, but released anyway in order to satisfy demand)
10.1 (first useable release, first widely accepted OS X)
10.2 (addition of iChat, Rendezvous, and Quartz Extreme, spring-loaded folders, more)

To answer your question, srk: Who's gonna use Mac? Lots of creative professionals like graphic designers, publishers, musicians, as well as scientists all use Macs quite a bit. Even though Macs aren't the typical personal desktop computer, they're the platform of choice in professional creative environments...so many such professionals also prefer to have Macs at home, too. Education is another strong Mac market, so many teachers that use Macs in the classroom also prefer to have Macs at home.

Macs aren't as alien a beast as many seem to think they are. They're just another (more elegant and intuitive, many say) way of doing things.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: srk
After hearing all this, still 1 most importing issue remains, whos gona use mac?
I wont, my favourate games wont work on it(except few), my favourate programs wont work on it, my favourate windows wont work on it...........
okok. i stretched it too much to include windows i agree....................lol

Apple seriously needs to think supportin x86 OS platforms and intercompatability so that user can choose to run OS they demand other than Mac Os 11x which is Due.

Apple is a hardware company. They are in the business of selling computers (just like Dell or Gateway). It just happends that they also produce software in house to run on those computers. If they started releasing software that would work on any x86 computer they'd be dead inside 2 years. Plus, OS X running on any x86 machine, like Windows does, probably wouldn't fair much better than Windows. W/all the hardware and software windows has to be able to "work" with it's not surprise it's so bloated and error prone compared to OS X. Apple is able to streamline and better intergrate their hardware and software because they control their hardware and software.


Lethal

 

[addragyn]

Originally posted by: srk
After hearing all this, still 1 most importing issue remains, whos gona use mac?
I wont, my favourate games wont work on it(except few), my favourate programs wont work on it, my favourate windows wont work on it...........
okok. i stretched it too much to include windows i agree....................lol

Apple seriously needs to think supportin x86 OS platforms and intercompatability so that user can choose to run OS they demand other than Mac Os 11x which is Due.

If you read a magazine or newpaper likely it was laid out on a Mac (Quark XPress, Adobe InDesign). Some of the graphics and ads inside it were finished on a Mac (Adobe Photoshop). If you listen to pop music alot of it was probably produced on a Mac (DigiDesign ProTools, Emagic Logic). If you watch movies and TV it's plausible some of it was edited on a Mac (Apple Final Cut Pro, Avid). And now with Apple's purchase and agressive pricing on Shake we'll definitely be watching movies that were composited on Macs.

You can see examples of professional users here and here. In addition to the creative arena Macs are being picked up by the life sciences (3 seperate links) and by geeks in general as evidenced by the attention Oreilly is giving them, http://mac.oreilly.com/.

OS X could be the most interoperable OS in the world. It plays with Linux, *NIX, Windows, and Mac OS.

You can run Windows on a Mac with Virtual PC and RealPC. Many PPC Linux distros are listed here. You can even run Mac OS within Linux using Mac-on-Linux. There's also NetBSD and OpenBSD. And of course there is Darwin. Now with Fink, Gentoo,and DarwinPorts projects sharing information and coordinating efforts the quantity and quality of free software under OS X will be fantastic.

 

[Dragon365]

Originally posted by: Eug
Bwahahaha!
Job opening at Apple..

That's the best laugh I've had all day! Thanks!