If I might ask (not trying to flame) - I had no idea what the hell happened at the end of the movie so I just took what everyone else here said. But how would you explain Neo stopping the sentinels?
If I might ask (not trying to flame) - I had no idea what the hell happened at the end of the movie so I just took what everyone else here said. But how would you explain Neo stopping the sentinels?
Anubis
No Lifer
here are some interpretations:
possibility #1. neo wasn't really the one that stopped the sentinels. the real deterrent was an EMP released by the rescue ship.
possibility #2. part of agent smith is now in neo, and since agent smith is a machine neo can somehow control machines.
-it's unclear that an exchange between the two in the matrix translates into neo gaining "supernatural" powers in the real world. but thinking how "the body cannot live w/o the mind" hints that there is some transmittance between the two places
possibility #3. the second door that neo stepped through after talking to the architect is actually a fake "real world" designed as a fail safe.
-neo picked the "wrong" door when he was with the architect. remember the line where the architect says "Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix." neo had two choices (doors):
[*]re-enter the matrix to save trinity. but because the one wouldn't enter the source so that the matrix would be reloaded, everyone in the real world that was hooked up to the matrix (and being used as power) would die (billions of humans). also, since the sentinels were digging down to zion, they would most likely destroy the city because they had been "exceedingly efficient" and destroying the city. hence, the end of humanity.
[*]don't save trinity, but save all the humans connected to the matrix (the ones being used for power). there is still the problem regarding the sentinels attacking zion.
the clear choice for the previous Ones was option 2. this was supposed to be the "right" choice. neo made a different one. to plan for the possibilty of the One making the wrong choice, the machines programmed a fake/private matrix and "real world" that would work as a way of containing neo. this "fake real world" was where neo was able to pwn the sentinels.
as someone else said "If he didn't follow the steps he should have taken the machines wouldn't just let him runabout willy nilly..I am guessing that at the end (when Neo says "there's something different") he realized that he was in this false Zion and the comma is because he was able to leave the prison wirelessly (if you will) without needing a hardline.."
aside from other interpretations, there are details in the movie that would be inconsitent with a "matrix within the matrix" idea. think of the first matrix. do you remember how mechanistic everything seemed?? the people in the matrix didn't seem very human, despite the fact that they didn't know that they were in a computer program. now think of zion and that huge rave scene. i think it shows the animalistic and primative side of humans. i.e., it shows humans in the real world and not another matrix. although i wasn't a big fan of the whole rave/sex scene, it was absolutely necessary to contrast the humans in zion (the real world) vs. the humans in the matrix vs. machines. (yes, 3 contrasting elements) there are many minor details that wouldn't really agree w/ the whole matrix in a matrix idea, but i really can't think any more.
Ahh ok. The first #3 makes sense. But if the thing that lets humans accept the Matrix is choice, (and therefore not reject it) aren't they trying to take that away from Neo? (I'm guessing so they can reinsert Neo's code in and fix the error or whatever)
The EMP thing doesn't make sense though to me - te ship wouldn't have been able to power back up as fast as it did (just a guess)
The EMP thing doesn't make sense though to me - te ship wouldn't have been able to power back up as fast as it did (just a guess)
i'm not really sure how to answer your first question, as i'm still trying to put things together, but i'm thinking that if neo only thinks that he is making a choice, wouldn't it be as effective as actually having him make choices.?
and about the EMP - i don't remember the sequence exactly, but don't we see neo fall into trinity's arms and the scene cuts immediately into the rescue ship? if so, then we have no idea how long it took for the rescue ship to pick up neo, trinity, morpheus and the new operator (someone remind me of his name damnit!)
anyway, my point really was to discredit the whole "matrix within a matrix" idea. i would really hate for that to be the case, although on some levels it makes perfect sense. my reason for presenting these possibilities was not to say "scenario 3 was what happened". it was to show that, if these are likely interpretations, then it's possible for the matrix in a matrix idea to be wrong.
i dont like the matrix within matrix idea either. at least i hope its not that. i mean its been done before.
ever watch ST: TNG.
oh crap i'm in a holodeck inside the holodec. or the professor moriarty episode. etc. you guys who have seen know what i'm talking about.
ever watch ST: TNG.
oh crap i'm in a holodeck inside the holodec. or the professor moriarty episode. etc. you guys who have seen know what i'm talking about.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
I enjoyed both movies. Based on pure preference, I say see Matrix Reloaded first and then run over and see Xmen 2.
one thing is this. the bad guy the one that the agent got into his body and tried to kill neo (right as the nebachenzzer) is leaving zion. he is still the bad guy in this new matrix in a matrix in scenario 3.
for one thing, if he was in the real real world before, and that guy was a normal human, the robots wouldnt have been able to control him in the real real world, pre neo stepping through the wrong door.
so that means that before he got to the architect he was already in a fake real world, where machines can control the minds of humans.
X-men 2 was much, much better. The Matrix was good, but it seemes liked they threw in a lot of sex and 'T & A' for the teenagers. It is a shame that a lot of movies are choosing that route these days.
Overall, X2 was more enjoyable for me. Matrix Reloaded had those "OMG" scenes, the rest I was 
. Only until I read some spoilers I really understood the movie, and the point of certain actions/words said. Maybe it was because it was really late, and I was tired, so probally didn't get to understand it as much as I should have.
But overall, I think I had a better time watching X2.
. Only until I read some spoilers I really understood the movie, and the point of certain actions/words said. Maybe it was because it was really late, and I was tired, so probally didn't get to understand it as much as I should have.But overall, I think I had a better time watching X2.
I think Reloaded should have been much shorter. The fight scenes were pretty cool, but they did seem to drag on just a bit to me.
Anyway, I liked X2 more than Reloaded.
Anyway, I liked X2 more than Reloaded.
Make a poll... I would say that x2 was more entertaining... matrix reloaded seemed like it was only 45 minutes long, just each scene was dragged out... don't get me wrong, both movies were awesome, but x2 was better.
Both movies are great but I am more into Specail Effect and kung-fu type. I vote for Matrix Reloaded.
well, i'm not so sure that for agent smith to control one of the humans it would have to be in some version of the matrix. remember that even in real life things like schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder will make people think that they are possessed or are other people. under this "influence" many people will commit murder or other crimes, convinced that they are under the direction of "voices in their head." it just might be that smith caused sort of pyschological dysfucntion in the mind of the human.
Matrix Reloaded was soooooo much better than x2!
I went into X2 and I got exactly what I expected. It was a sequel in every way, bigger and badder than the last, but in the end, it was still SOS. Was definitely a good entertaining movie, but I dont think Ill ever bother to watch it again.
The matrix on the other hand, gives you so much more. The effects in the matrix totally blow X2s away. Better fights. Better story. Better acting. There is no comparison. Matrix is also a far more mental movie, X2 is "what you see is what you get." I can discuss the possibilites of what the hell is going on in the matrix now for hours on end, but after X2, all I could say was, yeah, that was cool.
I went into X2 and I got exactly what I expected. It was a sequel in every way, bigger and badder than the last, but in the end, it was still SOS. Was definitely a good entertaining movie, but I dont think Ill ever bother to watch it again.
The matrix on the other hand, gives you so much more. The effects in the matrix totally blow X2s away. Better fights. Better story. Better acting. There is no comparison. Matrix is also a far more mental movie, X2 is "what you see is what you get." I can discuss the possibilites of what the hell is going on in the matrix now for hours on end, but after X2, all I could say was, yeah, that was cool.
I am also hoping that it isn't a layered matrix. That would ruin the entire story for me. As for your other options, I don't think it was an EMP because Neo clearly states he can sense them, and then he falls into a coma. Also, the other ship would have needed to shut down.
I think it is possible that Neo and Agent Smith had some strange transfer thing going on, but I don't see why that would give Neo 'powers' in the real world, as Smith is just a program in the Matrix. I tend to think the programs in the matrix and the real Sentinels operate independently of each other. Also, Smith/Bain is in a coma... What kind of setup would be necessary for both of them to be in comas? He is the only survivor of a ship that was destroyed by Sentinels, which means he also stopped the Sentinels, which is something he would be capable of doing within the Matrix.
Possibility #3 is the only one I can go with, and I clearly remember thinking that Neo should try to find a phone and jack out to try to save Trinity. I don't specifically remember seeing them jack out of the Matrix, so its possible that they didn't and he is stuck in the fake matrix.
Or, the brothers could have purposefully lead us down these tracks, and then do something completely different, which makes discussion of this movie useless. I think that's one of my biggest gripes with it. I know its half of a movie according to them, but it could have been more fulfilling. So, it all depends on the sequel now...
although i also believe that #3 is what's really going on, i don't want to discredit the second possibility just yet. although the matrix and the sentinels are in two places (one in the real world, the other is a computer simulation), i wouldn't say that they operate independently of each other. they are both probably under the command of a single machine/computer/program, and are thus connected in some way. remember in the first matrix how the agents were coordinating an attack w/ the sentinels from within the matrix? i forget which part, but i believe it's when the agents are interrogating morpheus and they fear that neo and trinity will sever the hard line to morpheus. one agent says "deploy the sentinels."
also, the fact that bane/smith survived the attack might not be because he actively was able to stop the sentinels. the sentinels are able to distinguish human from non-human, possibily by detecting brain activity. perhaps when they scanned bane/smith they detected brain activity that was more indicative of a machine than a human, and thus spared him.
HomeBrewerDude
Lifer
- Jan 18, 2001
- 14,465
- 1
- 0
I think that X2 was better, though they both more or less suffered from their anemic endings. \
SPOILERS INCLUDED HERE ON OUT:
The problem with Reloaded, is that the action isn't necessarily tied to the SF premises behind the movie, at least NOT like in the first Matrix. X2 ending was pretty weak compared to the first half.... i mean, there was very little left to the imagination once they got to the underground laboratory.
SPOILERS INCLUDED HERE ON OUT:
The problem with Reloaded, is that the action isn't necessarily tied to the SF premises behind the movie, at least NOT like in the first Matrix. X2 ending was pretty weak compared to the first half.... i mean, there was very little left to the imagination once they got to the underground laboratory.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter