Youtuber Commits Murder/Suicide by McLaren

[Darwin333]

We had always planned to pay for their school as long as they're hard workers and do well. Money is not a huge object for us and I'd much rather they make themselves useful in life. They're only 10 now and I constantly think about teaching them life lessons (ie. sports, etc. - the real kind).

I don't have blind hate for these Youtubers. I have considered if they're actually doing anything to help themselves or be useful to anyone. I do watch a few entertainers (jokesters) but that's all they are. They entertain me for minutes at a time. But honestly, it's sad that that's all they do in their daily routine. It's sad that they chose to do this because clearly it's easier than the traditional route. That's their reason for doing it - in true millenial fashion. I have no respect for this kind of hustle. If it came to it, I'd much rather they work hard at entrepreneurship producing something people actually can use or need.

I don't know if you have any kids, but it's so easy for them to be misguided. So easy for them to be completely complacent and lazy. Some of their classmates are getting fricken 70s on math tests. In 4th grade.

Most entrepreneurs fail as do most small businesses, that is just fact. So they are making serious bank doing things that they enjoy, you'd rather have your kids doing something that they don't enjoy but being what you consider productive? Frankly they are entertaining hundreds of thousands of people which is productive, just not in the way that you like.

 

[rh71]

Most entrepreneurs fail as do most small businesses, that is just fact. So they are making serious bank doing things that they enjoy, you'd rather have your kids doing something that they don't enjoy but being what you consider productive? Frankly they are entertaining hundreds of thousands of people which is productive, just not in the way that you like.

My goal is to teach them to experience everything, not force them into anything. What I feel is that these e-sportists' guidance in adolescence was absent. "He can do whatever he likes" is a phrase we've heard often, because some generation of parents cared too much about their happiness and comfort above all else. Look what kind of reputation these kids got as a result. Any hardship and they're seeking all kinds of help or crying foul. Or suicide + homicide in this case.

Taking the easy road is no way to build any kind of character or mental toughness needed throughout life especially into adulthood. Do you have kids? Is making lots of money really what 10-to-20 year olds should prioritize? That's really something you'd push? Because that's all your last 2 responses have been about.

Let's face it. If there wasn't any money to be made with YT, these kids would be seeking another easy way out just the same. Don't use the entertainment of millions as the reason they're doing what they do. Honestly I have told them to start their own YT channel (they won't), but for a different reason. So they can learn to build their personality and to be creative because that's vital to their growth. But if it started taking over their daily life like it has with all these jobless young adults, that shit should've been shut down by parents like yesterday.

 

[purbeast0]

Let's face it. If there wasn't any money to be made with YT, these kids would be seeking another easy way out just the same. Don't use the entertainment of millions as the reason they're doing what they do. Honestly I have told them to start their own YT channel (they won't), but for a different reason. So they can learn to build their personality and to be creative because that's vital to their growth. But if it started taking over their daily life like it has with all these jobless young adults, that shit should've been shut down by parents like yesterday.

One problem I see with your thought is that you associate being a YT star or a pro gamer with being "easy". It's anything but easy. It just looks easy once they are at the top because they make it look easy and have all of the viewers.

I used to play fighting games competitively (never pro or anything) and I can tell you that the professional gamers in the fighting game community put in TONS of time and work into it, including a ton of study time. There is nothing easy about it, and the mental toughness that these guys have is also something that is not easy to have and I'd argue that most people don't have it.

 

[Aikouka]

One problem I see with your thought is that you associate being a YT star or a pro gamer with being "easy". It's anything but easy. It just looks easy once they are at the top because they make it look easy and have all of the viewers.

I used to play fighting games competitively (never pro or anything) and I can tell you that the professional gamers in the fighting game community put in TONS of time and work into it, including a ton of study time. There is nothing easy about it, and the mental toughness that these guys have is also something that is not easy to have and I'd argue that most people don't have it.

It's also worth noting that burn-out has become a huge issue with YouTube and Twitch streamers lately. The issue is that the nature of the game causes people to have to consistently produce content to stay relevant. It's even worse because there's usually no idea of alternate personalities as the content is usually focused around one person or a specific group of people. This means taking time off can be hard, and I don't think I've ever heard of a Twitch streamer that took time off and didn't see a noticeable drop in subscriptions.

In other words, it seems like a ton of fun... the easy life... but it's a volatile, dog-eat-dog world.

 

[momeNt]

It's also worth noting that burn-out has become a huge issue with YouTube and Twitch streamers lately. The issue is that the nature of the game causes people to have to consistently produce content to stay relevant. It's even worse because there's usually no idea of alternate personalities as the content is usually focused around one person or a specific group of people. This means taking time off can be hard, and I don't think I've ever heard of a Twitch streamer that took time off and didn't see a noticeable drop in subscriptions.

In other words, it seems like a ton of fun... the easy life... but it's a volatile, dog-eat-dog world.

Every career has burnout, not every career has twitch/youtube famous compensation though.

Have you ever heard of an overworked barista crashing their McLaren in a wrong-way collision in San Diego of all places? I haven't, a lot of them are tired and wish they could take a week off to traipse around Europe though.

 

[Aikouka]

Every career has burnout, not every career has twitch/youtube famous compensation though.

Have you ever heard of an overworked barista crashing their McLaren in a wrong-way collision in San Diego of all places? I haven't, a lot of them are tired and wish they could take a week off to traipse around Europe though.

The issue is more or less what you can do to solve burn-out. If my job is overworking me and I feel like the compensation is not enough, I can look for work elsewhere. If attempting to keep up with YouTube's algorithm by creating daily videos is simply too much for me, there's not much else that I can do other than attempt to lessen the load (hire editors, less videos, etc.).

Although, I'd say that this problem targets streamers a bit more since they can't even work ahead of time. I've seen some YouTube channels create content ahead of time, and post that on a regular basis while on vacation. This kept them from losing relevance with their viewers that almost expect the regular schedule of content. With a streamer, unless you're planning on streaming during vacation, you can't really do anything.

As for compensation, keep in mind that these super famous YouTube and Twitch personalities are a small minority. I do watch quite a few smaller streamers that usually struggle to make it, and some that see maybe 200-400 viewers have been streaming for YEARS. But the good thing is that these people seem to really enjoy it. At least for some that I've spoken to on a more personal level, it's not even about playing the game, it's also about getting to talk to people.

 

[rh71]

One problem I see with your thought is that you associate being a YT star or a pro gamer with being "easy". It's anything but easy. It just looks easy once they are at the top because they make it look easy and have all of the viewers.

I used to play fighting games competitively (never pro or anything) and I can tell you that the professional gamers in the fighting game community put in TONS of time and work into it, including a ton of study time. There is nothing easy about it, and the mental toughness that these guys have is also something that is not easy to have and I'd argue that most people don't have it.

I did pretty well in WoW for countless years and led my raid (either healing/dps) most nights. In no way would I associate all the time, effort, and "skill" developed in gaming anything even on the same level as acquiring real-life marketable skills. I'm still a gamer, but to profess it as a full-time gig and a proper way to earn a living - I absolutely cannot agree with it. What are they going to do with their life if these sources stop paying out? A 30+ year old working at McD's. Ok, maybe retail like Gamestop. That's what they'll be qualified for. Do better in your prime years is my point. And I don't mean finding a better hustle. God, parents of this generation were failing so hard (for reasons I stated last post). I know you've got a toddler - is this something you want them dependent on at 20 and have zero backup plan?

Onto the topic of burn-out. The YT'er I watch most frequently does pranks or other funny stuff on a college campus. But many know him by now and he can't even get many successful interactions so once in a while he has to travel elsewhere, including out of state. Before that, he had also stopped posting new videos for over a month. The burn-out is real. So he's doing twitch a lot more to generate income. How long will that last him? This is why having a backup plan is important (hindsight - don't get into this volatile hobby in the first place). He's a college drop-out, one of many.

 

[Darwin333]

My goal is to teach them to experience everything, not force them into anything. What I feel is that these e-sportists' guidance in adolescence was absent. "He can do whatever he likes" is a phrase we've heard often, because some generation of parents cared too much about their happiness and comfort above all else. Look what kind of reputation these kids got as a result. Any hardship and they're seeking all kinds of help or crying foul. Or suicide + homicide in this case.

Taking the easy road is no way to build any kind of character or mental toughness needed throughout life especially into adulthood. Do you have kids? Is making lots of money really what 10-to-20 year olds should prioritize? That's really something you'd push? Because that's all your last 2 responses have been about.

Let's face it. If there wasn't any money to be made with YT, these kids would be seeking another easy way out just the same. Don't use the entertainment of millions as the reason they're doing what they do. Honestly I have told them to start their own YT channel (they won't), but for a different reason. So they can learn to build their personality and to be creative because that's vital to their growth. But if it started taking over their daily life like it has with all these jobless young adults, that shit should've been shut down by parents like yesterday.

Yes I do have kids, one of them will be heading to college in a year. She takes quite a few AP classes and has always gotten straight As and is one hellofa softball pitcher. She could get a scholarship for it but she doesn't want to play after high school, heck the only reason she is playing this year is that it looks good on her college application. She has played travel ball since she was 8 and I think she is just burned out, combined with her coach being a real PITA in high school. She is going to NYU which despite her excellent grades, high ACT score and extracurricular activities she is highly unlikely to get any sort of scholarship so I will gladly pay for it.

I want her to do something that she will love doing but I am also trying to gently push her in the direction of the things on her list that pays well too. Going through life broke isn't fun and usually isn't very healthy either.

Saying that these kids are taking the easy way out shows that you don't know much about the industry which is understandable until recently I didn't either. At the same time though you are bitching that they are making a ton of money doing what they love. Isn't that pretty much what everyone wants for themselves and their loved ones? I don't hate my job, on occasion I do really enjoy it but I damn sure don't love it. It provides the lifestyle that I want for my family, their private schools and my ability to save for their college. Luckily my two are 4 years apart so it isn't one after the other. If I could do a job that I loved while still making the same amount of money I would definitely be happier overall, most of us do spend more hours at work than we do at home so work has a significant factor to our overall happiness.

PS: She has changed her mind a ton and probably will again but she wanted to be a lawyer and now wants to be a Trauma Surgeon. I really really hope she changes her mind about being a Trauma Surgeon, I am not fond of the absurd hours during residency and the psychological toll that losing patients, which will be higher than almost every other type of surgeon, takes on a person, among other things. She has plenty of time to change her mind and if at the end of it that is what she really wants to do I will support it. Not that I'm not supporting it now, I'm just giving her the facts of what it entails. If I was really cruel I would have made her work an 80 hour work week at my office over the summer to show her what she had to look forward to for 4 years

I hope that answers your question.

 

[rh71]

Saying that these kids are taking the easy way out shows that you don't know much about the industry which is understandable until recently I didn't either. At the same time though you are bitching that they are making a ton of money doing what they love.

What is it that I don't know about the industry? I know what kind of "work" it takes to be good at a game - it's more like having the time. Is it that it takes time and effort to plan the presentation? A young adult using an internet site such as YT as the vehicle to success is my biggest gripe. Undeniably, it's available to everyone in order for the company to generate revenue and in turn they share it with their content creators. They become part of a machine which in my opinion - as I've stated - allows the person to be lazy and professionally unskilled in order to be successful (if they are). It leaves them with nothing tangible to use in life after it's all done because they've already wasted precious years. What then? Off on a tangent but - can you imagine these guys getting married and being an ideal/productive husband or father rather than sitting on the couch all day? Not me.

As for bitching they're making a ton of money? It's the proverbial dangling carrot. It may as well be a pyramid scheme. You talk about directing your kids in their college years as a seasoned parent yet you're ok with kids in their more impressionable years to be lured away by the carrot$. It makes zero sense to me, happiness or not. I'll tell you, my kids have been home playing video games in the absence of camp weeks and they're extremely happy. Does that mean if someone will pay them to do it all day everyday, I should let it happen? A parent's first inclination should be to tell them to get off their ass and do something productive instead. Not because we're power hungry or slave drivers, but because it is for their own good. We limit their game time so they can be both entertained and productive.

 

[Aikouka]

How long will that last him? This is why having a backup plan is important (hindsight - don't get into this volatile hobby in the first place). He's a college drop-out, one of many.

I don't think anyone disagrees that it's important to ensure that you have a back-up. It's not too dissimilar from acting work as it's not too crazy for an actor to become big, get good roles, eventually fall off the radar, and only end up making pennies in comparison. If a YouTube or Twitch personality makes it big, probably the two most important things to keep in mind are (1) save money, and (2) ensure your portfolio is diverse enough. The latter can be quite a challenge for some as it does require a bit of a business sense. Essentially, it's sort of like you need to ensure that you aren't too reliant upon a single revenue source. For example, you start off with ads, and then work in user donations/subscriptions, and eventually try to work in brand deals. At that point, you get some channels do an off-shoot based upon their brand. For example, a beauty YouTube channel may sell branded cosmetics.

I think that's the hardest part for some as the people that you've described come across more as one-trick ponies.

She has changed her mind a ton and probably will again but she wanted to be a lawyer and now wants to be a Trauma Surgeon.

Eh, are you sure it's the best for her to even go to NYU at this point? I guess I just don't see the point in going to a prestigious school like that (i.e. expensive) if she doesn't even know what she wants to do. I think what makes that worse is that if you're bouncing around in the same field (i.e. different medical studies), you at least have overlap, but there's very little overlap between law and medical.

 

[Darwin333]

Eh, are you sure it's the best for her to even go to NYU at this point? I guess I just don't see the point in going to a prestigious school like that (i.e. expensive) if she doesn't even know what she wants to do. I think what makes that worse is that if you're bouncing around in the same field (i.e. different medical studies), you at least have overlap, but there's very little overlap between law and medical.

I made a deal with her if she brought me home straight A's that she could do whatever she wanted to do and she wants to go to NYU. She held up her end of the deal and I will hold up mine. If she decides she wants to go into law she can get her bachelors degree at NYU and go to law school somewhere else.

 

[Darwin333]

What is it that I don't know about the industry? I know what kind of "work" it takes to be good at a game - it's more like having the time. Is it that it takes time and effort to plan the presentation? A young adult using an internet site such as YT as the vehicle to success is my biggest gripe. Undeniably, it's available to everyone in order for the company to generate revenue and in turn they share it with their content creators. They become part of a machine which in my opinion - as I've stated - allows the person to be lazy and professionally unskilled in order to be successful (if they are). It leaves them with nothing tangible to use in life after it's all done because they've already wasted precious years. What then? Off on a tangent but - can you imagine these guys getting married and being an ideal/productive husband or father rather than sitting on the couch all day? Not me.

As for bitching they're making a ton of money? It's the proverbial dangling carrot. It may as well be a pyramid scheme. You talk about directing your kids in their college years as a seasoned parent yet you're ok with kids in their more impressionable years to be lured away by the carrot$. It makes zero sense to me, happiness or not. I'll tell you, my kids have been home playing video games in the absence of camp weeks and they're extremely happy. Does that mean if someone will pay them to do it all day everyday, I should let it happen? A parent's first inclination should be to tell them to get off their ass and do something productive instead. Not because we're power hungry or slave drivers, but because it is for their own good. We limit their game time so they can be both entertained and productive.

The guy that is famous for breaking up with that hot ass latino chick to spend more time playing COD goes to the gym every day and iirc has made some successful real estate investments. Just because they make a living playing video games doesn't mean that they are lazy. It definitely isn't easy no matter how you look at it and requires a shitload of dedication way beyond the "fun" level. There is no way in hell that I could put in the time and effort playing a single game that they do. I'd be burnt out extremely fast. I also think you are discounting the effort required to produce a successful youtube channel so in no way would I consider them lazy. As far as tangible skills when it's over, well if they are smart with their money they can pay cash and get a degree to start whatever career they want. If they are even smarter and depending on how much they made they can invest that money and let it work for them. If you invest $2M you only need to make a 3% yearly return to make enough money to be at the median household income.

Granted I do see where you are coming from as a parent, I wouldn't want my kid spending all of their free time playing a video game in the hopes of making a profession out of it but is it really that much different than kids who spend all of their free time playing a traditional sport in the hopes of becoming a professional athlete?

 

[rh71]

but is it really that much different than kids who spend all of their free time playing a traditional sport in the hopes of becoming a professional athlete?

Yes, sports have health (physical/mental) and socialization benefits. And no, talking on a mic to a fellow gamer is not socializing. They zone out into their own world more than anything and when they're done, they act like zombies. You tell them game time is over and some kids even rage because we're suddenly the bad guys.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Yes, sports have health (physical/mental) and socialization benefits. And no, talking on a mic to a fellow gamer is not socializing. They zone out into their own world more than anything and when they're done, they act like zombies. You tell them game time is over and some kids even rage because we're suddenly the bad guys.

So you're saying talking on the phone isn't real socializing?

Sounds like they're suffering from some addiction (not uncommon, and I'm actually in full agreement, I'm worried its going to get worse because companies have started actually researching it and how to make their stuff more addictive, and then add in gambling, and we have a recipe for disaster - although I should point out that gambling isn't limited to video games in fact its been a dark aspect of your "real games/sports" almost forever) and you just need to do more (set parental controls on their games, or if necessary, block their internet access at times when they need to be in bed or doing chores). Its not like you have zero tools to manage things. If it wasn't games you'd be having to tell them to stop jacking off all the time, or watching too much TV, or constantly hanging out with their friends, or embarrassing you by being jackasses outside the house.

You're right, no one has ever raged about sports in the history of humankind. And definitely people zoning out, that only ever happened with the advent of video games.

Are there issues with video games? Absolutely. But that's true of basically everything, and humans are prone to over-imbibing in anything and everything, including sports. Likewise, I'm not a big fan of plenty of YouTube people, but there's tons of them that are using that platform to spread knowledge, including ones that are specifically targeting video games.

I agree that there's potential to create feedback loops with advent of competitive gaming. The thing is, it would be pretty similar to that which already happens with your "real" sports. Where kids grow up putting all their time and effort into playing a game, thinking (expecting?) they'll make it big, to the point they let other aspects of their life languish, and then before they know it, their dream is dashed and they're stuck because they didn't put in effort in school or to learn other things.

You can take your "real men play real sports" shit and shove it right up your ass too. The pieces of shit that I've known that pushed that type of mentality either turned a blind eye to, or actually partook in shit like sexually assaulting kids as part of "hazing" rituals, trying to cover up rape, domestic violence, and too much other shit. There's no one right way for people to grow up, or for people to be into.

Plus, WTF will be your argument once virtual/augmented reality becomes really feasible and people are getting up and doing lots of actual movement for video games? Will you be like so many others and bounce from "damn kids just sit there dicking around on their computer thing!" to "damn kids won't sit still!"? You really need some nuance to your arguments,as they're too simplistic. That you're hyping "real" sports while ignoring how they suffer from basically almost all of the things you're bitching about video games on is just stupid.

Essentially you're just going "damn kids need to learn how to mature" because just like your parents and their parents, and every generation before, you forget how it was when you were a shit for brains kid, and now with your maturity you want them to be able to get to your maturity level without any of the things it took to get you there. And you're frustrated, because kids are fucking frustrating little shits that while you can give information to, they aren't capable of really understanding it because their brains aren't fully developed. And because of that they're more prone to being manipulated and doing dumb shit. Same as it ever was.

We've been dealing with all the same shit with my nephews/niece, so I can understand how vexing it is. But you're completely misguided in acting like YouTube or video games somehow is the actual issue. Its just what younger people currently going through the shit for brains developmental period are into, so you blame those things because you can't consider that you might be a shitty parent, or that maybe its just part of growing up (for both you and your kids, where you transition to being a parent and bugging your kids, just like your parents did to you). Being a parent is hard. You've got so much responsibility and there's little appreciation for what you all do. It sucks. But try to remember that being a kid and growing up is hard in its own way and that they're pretty much mentally incapable of comprehending things in a non stupid manner without rigorous teaching. So, try to teach them how to regulate themselves and hope for the day when it clicks and it dawns on them.

 

[Mai72]

There are ZERO guarantees with anything. You could have a kid who devotes 4-6 years towards a career that seems "safe" and totally abandon it because it makes him or her unhappy. What you may think as being "unsafe" to pursue, your child might actually love the idea and pursue that goal because they may actually enjoy it. Many jobs are going to become automated in the near future. So, what then? It could be your daughter's job. Your son's future job. Also, where do you think the world is headed? We have jobs now that didn't even exist 10 years ago. We are in a very fascinating period in time, because older people are trying to hold onto a past that is slowly evaporating before their eyes. Many of the traditional approaches to finding a career have become nightmares for many young people. College debt is at $1.3T and increasing. BTW, much of that will never be paid back. Many people are going to a job that they hate, which in-turn causes long term illnesses. Many kids start to resent their parents for pushing them into a job that they hate.. "Go to college, or else you'll be broke forever" say the parents. Yet, I know plenty of people who have gone to college and it's been a nightmare.

Doing anything that you love takes hard work. It looks like an easy ride but it's hardly anything but easy. All you guys are seeing are the people who are at the top of the YT/Twitch food chain. There are plenty of content creators who are doing exceptionally well and YT is all they do. Twitch is all they do. Yet, you don't even know their names. I watch YT streamers like Gopher who puts together Skyrim Let's Plays, and gives Skyrim turtiorals. There is Dan's Gaming who plays RPGs on Twitch. Both of these guys make decent money. At least enough to make a good living. Would you rather do what you love making $76k a year, or go to a job that you f'kin hate and make $110k a year?

 

[rh71]

Essentially you're just going "damn kids need to learn how to mature" because just like your parents and their parents, and every generation before, you forget how it was when you were a shit for brains kid, and now with your maturity you want them to be able to get to your maturity level without any of the things it took to get you there. And you're frustrated, because kids are fucking frustrating little shits that while you can give information to, they aren't capable of really understanding it because their brains aren't fully developed. And because of that they're more prone to being manipulated and doing dumb shit. Same as it ever was.

You're right about this for sure. Parents have a leg up on how things should be for obvious reasons and our job is to guide them. Being a level 4 certified coach (4yrs official coaching education), it has been enlightening how much influence we have on young minds and their behaviors. What motivates or drives them. And when I say coach, I'm not a huge sports/beer-drinking/hat-and-jersey wearing guy, at all. I have loved hockey since my youth and I use that to bond with my kids. It gives me a prime opportunity to teach them about teamwork, hard work, mental strength, and adversity. All sorely lacking in the recent generation(s) as a result of soft and/or lazy parenting. "Real men play real sports" is not the point. Not even close. The point is playing video games for income has a different driving force and what got them there was unbound addiction. What addiction is there in real sports? Gambling? We're talking about 10 year olds / youths. Are they getting hooked on steroids so they can make it to the pros? Hardly such an issue when you compare it to how negative video games are. You speak about many things kids could get into but sports (the multitude of them) is a huge avenue that provides more benefits than any other. I don't even watch football or baseball - I just find it to be the perfect outlet for participation and engagement. No zombies here. Nowhere did I indicate making the pros should be their goal (more on that below) - kids can dream of course and that's a huge motivational factor for any success. Video games should be an outlet for short periods of downtime. Making a "career" out of it when kids are 15-25 - I've already made it clear how I feel about it.

You can take your "real men play real sports" shit and shove it right up your ass too. The pieces of shit that I've known that pushed that type of mentality either turned a blind eye to, or actually partook in shit like sexually assaulting kids as part of "hazing" rituals, trying to cover up rape, domestic violence, and too much other shit. There's no one right way for people to grow up, or for people to be into.

Coaches constantly have to check themselves because you have kids with various levels of ability and 99% won't make it anywhere past high school or college in their sport. Our job is to get the most out of them - our job is the journey. The good ones know this. The good ones would love for the child to one day realize that X coach did right by him. The crazy win-at-all-cost coaches are the ones who make the news or your facebook feed - the ones you may have in mind. Not even remotely the majority. As for your concern, they take hazing and locker room presence much more seriously these days. There's also SafeSport and mandatory background screenings. No comparison to what it used to be.

The majority of youth coaches become coaches to help their own kids learn. From there, they suddenly realize they're responsible for 20+ other kids and over the course of a season or more, they get the same gratification that leads me to what my message has been. No, we should not allow for the time when they wake up and realize they've been doing stupid useless shit. That is exactly the opposite of our job as parents and we need to fight the battle every day. You explain exactly why they do what they do and just throw your hands up in the air because "that's how it's always been". Consider this, how are these kids (the YT generation) going to parent when it's their turn? A young life spent sitting on the couch or in front of a PC doesn't even lead to being a good spouse, let alone a parent. With such changing times in the direction of our youth, there's no way you can just accept the path we're on. It is NOT the same as it ever was. Kids who make up millions upon millions of subscribers are thinking they can make a legit career out of addictive gaming FFS. May as well let little girls in on the porn industry's success too.