Your position on free will?

[Flyback]

I go back and forth on it, mostly remaining uncertain.

It would be appropriate to give a definition of the term for the question, but I couldn't formulate a definition that others would likely agree with (so reply with your own definition?).

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will (shamelessly stolen poll options from the taxonomy) for some limited info.

Compatibilism: Compatibilists maintain that determinism is compatible with free will.

Hard determinism: "Hard determinists", such as d'Holbach, are those incompatibilists who accept determinism and reject free will.

Libertarianism: Libertarianism holds that free-will exists, and that it requires the individual to be able to take more than one possible course of actions under a given set of circumstances. Since determinism implies that there is only one possible future, it is not compatible with this conception of free-will, and must be false.

 

[destrekor]

my definition: 100% free will. nothing controls my life.
so, what does that fall under, since these words in the poll confuse me.

 

[Oceandevi]

We exist in an advanced AI's dreams. And it exists on the night the pale shadow crosses the tangible boundary twixt the worlds.

 

[akshatp]

Your position regarding free will...

I beleive they definitely should have let that nice whale go... Definitely.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Free Will is such a vauge term

Basically, our minds are governed by a complex set of chemical reactions. Every decision we make is an embodiment of years of experience, and trial and error. We make unconscious comparisons in our mind when doing any action.

Practically, we probably have free will, if you mean that no outside force governs our decisions

However, from a biological perspective, no

 

[Jeff7]

Lack of free will for us would require some other entity which would know the outcome of all our decisions. Since I don't see any such entity, I say that we do truly have free will. Granted, it's a "guided" free will, guided by our preconceptions and societal upbringing. Those things narrow the focus of our free will, as do our physical limitations. I can't simply decide to spontaneously combust into a flame made of coconut juice and Roll-Aids. There are certain physical limitations there. I also could decide to go out and kill someone, skin them, wear the skin, and parade around claiming, "I am Britney Spears!" But, you know, I'd probably be put in jail, in solitary confinement. Then of course, my free will would have even fewer options. "Hmm, which brick will I stare at today? Oooh, I haven't really looked at THIS one before. Wow, it even has three small pebbles sticking out of the left corner. Awesome. Today is going to totally ROCK! Rock, I made a pun! AHAHAHhahhahaa......"


But in the sense of this "entity" which would know the outcome of free will, then the existence of free will depends on the scope of examination. If the entity is included, then there is no free will, as the outcomes of decisions are already known. Then it's just determinism, a mathematical equation to work out.
If only the ones who are making the decisions are included in the scope, and the entity is ignored, then free will does truly exist.

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Free Will is such a vauge term

Basically, our minds are governed by a complex set of chemical reactions. Every decision we make is an embodiment of years of experience, and trial and error. We make unconscious comparisons in our mind when doing any action.

Practically, we probably have free will, if you mean that no outside force governs our decisions

However, from a biological perspective, no

The problem is, since we don't have any way of seeing the result of future decisions, is it really determined? I guess what I mean is, yes, it may have been determined by our biology, but no one here knows how to find out what that future will be - the outcome is unknown. Without this knowledge, the decisions we make today are based on free will.

 

[Canai]

Uh, you only stole like half the poll choices. I vote for determinism sort of. It's hard to explain, but I think that nature and current and past events will shape the future, and then it is up to us how to deal with and shape our lives in that future.

 

[ponyo]

I guess it's that time of the year. College kids taking Intro to Philosophy course.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Free Will is such a vauge term

Basically, our minds are governed by a complex set of chemical reactions. Every decision we make is an embodiment of years of experience, and trial and error. We make unconscious comparisons in our mind when doing any action.

Practically, we probably have free will, if you mean that no outside force governs our decisions

However, from a biological perspective, no

One interesting perspective is that our minds (or consciousness, whatever you want to call it) are just giant state machines that produce a given output (a decision) as a function of the present state of our mind and the state of all inputs from the outside world that would affect the decision. Granted there are probably billions of states and factors that influence our decisions, but the end result is that our actions are just a product of the way each of our brains are hardwired to respond under the given circumstances. Because there are so many different situations and factors that can influence our decisions, this gives us the illusion of free will.

 

[Flyback]

Originally posted by: Naustica
I guess it's that time of the year. College kids taking Intro to Philosophy course.

Not at all. I was thumbing through some older Daniel Dennett earlier in the evening and thought to post it. Try again, sport.

 

[mattpegher]

To a degree, I agree with tenshodo. Our decisions are in part guided by a complex mixture of our biologic status, prior experiences and current evaluation of personal risk/benifit. One can argue that the decision that you make at a particular time is the only decision that you would have made given your current state. This doesnot require any spiritual/religious control. However this doesnot negate the concept of "free-will" as you are still responsible for the decision.
Interestingly, population models suggest that individual decisions still have little effect on the dynamics of the whole which is more easily predicted and in turn effects individual decisions.

Its sort of like voting democrate in a blue state during the last presidential election, the decision wasn't yours to make.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I lean toward hard determinism. It seems likely that if the location and velocity of all matter and energy could be determined for even one instant in time, then the exact configuration of that matter could be calculated at any given time in the future. This would include all of the colliding particles and chemical reactions going on in your body. Even those atoms and electrons that shift about in your brain, producing the consciousness that makes the contemplation of free will possible could then be traced back shuffle by shuffle, reaction by reaction, to this snapshot of the universe. Your "free will" would then turn out to be simply the inevitable configuration in which the universe finds itself in from moment to moment, and no more under your control than the rest of the universe.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Free Will is such a vauge term

Basically, our minds are governed by a complex set of chemical reactions. Every decision we make is an embodiment of years of experience, and trial and error. We make unconscious comparisons in our mind when doing any action.

Practically, we probably have free will, if you mean that no outside force governs our decisions

However, from a biological perspective, no

One interesting perspective is that our minds (or consciousness, whatever you want to call it) are just giant state machines that produce a given output (a decision) as a function of the present state of our mind and the state of all inputs from the outside world that would affect the decision. Granted there are probably billions of states and factors that influence our decisions, but the end result is that our actions are just a product of the way each of our brains are hardwired to respond under the given circumstances. Because there are so many different situations and factors that can influence our decisions, this gives us the illusion of free will.

My thoughts exactly. Psychologists already have a good grasp of predicting how people will react to certain situations. Eventually, technology and neuroscience might evolve to the point where mathmeticians wil be able to predict these reactions better than psychologists.

 

[her209]

Eventually everyone is going to die and nobody will be left. In the very end, it doesn't matter.

 

[AbAbber2k]

I'm not sure how to describe what I believe. I believe our choices are heavily influenced by past events, but I believe that something akin to free will prevents an absolutely certain future.

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Free Will is such a vauge term

Basically, our minds are governed by a complex set of chemical reactions. Every decision we make is an embodiment of years of experience, and trial and error. We make unconscious comparisons in our mind when doing any action.

Practically, we probably have free will, if you mean that no outside force governs our decisions

However, from a biological perspective, no

One interesting perspective is that our minds (or consciousness, whatever you want to call it) are just giant state machines that produce a given output (a decision) as a function of the present state of our mind and the state of all inputs from the outside world that would affect the decision. Granted there are probably billions of states and factors that influence our decisions, but the end result is that our actions are just a product of the way each of our brains are hardwired to respond under the given circumstances. Because there are so many different situations and factors that can influence our decisions, this gives us the illusion of free will.

Pretty much my perspective. Our reactions to stimuli are pretty simple in the beginning. When we are babies we cry when we are hungry or have a wet diaper. We get older and our stimuli and reactions become much more complicated, but they are still simply a series of physical, chemical, or electrical reactions.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
We exist in an advanced AI's dreams. And it exists on the night the pale shadow crosses the tangible boundary twixt the worlds.

For a second there, i thought you were talking about Persona 3. Good game btw.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Who's Will and why do we need to free him?

 

[Flyback]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I lean toward hard determinism. It seems likely that if the location and velocity of all matter and energy could be determined for even one instant in time, then the exact configuration of that matter could be calculated at any given time in the future. This would include all of the colliding particles and chemical reactions going on in your body. Even those atoms and electrons that shift about in your brain, producing the consciousness that makes the contemplation of free will possible could then be traced back shuffle by shuffle, reaction by reaction, to this snapshot of the universe. Your "free will" would then turn out to be simply the inevitable configuration in which the universe finds itself in from moment to moment, and no more under your control than the rest of the universe.

What about quantum mechanics and chaos theory?

Then again, plenty of physicists think the apparent probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics as just part of a greater deterministic system.

 

[Pepsi90919]

There are those who think that life is nothing left to chance
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive.
"The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign"
Blame is better to give than receive.

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose free will.

There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them
They weren't born in lotus land.

All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate.

Kicked in the face,
You can pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose free will.

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose free will.

 

[mooglemania85]

There is no Dana, there is only Zhul.

 

[Mermaidman]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
We exist in an advanced AI's dreams. And it exists on the night the pale shadow crosses the tangible boundary twixt the worlds.

Close--Actually, humanity has ceased to exist and what we perceive as reality is simply one of countless simulations run by a quantum super-duper computer. Brasyl

 

[everman]

Someone tried to do something about it, but unfortunately the district court didn't have jurisdiction.

 

[Vic]

Free will is obvious IMO, whether we be mere machines or not. Determinism requires a That-Which-Determines, i.e. a God. We're not dominoes set in motion.
The real question IMO is that of time (which is obviously necessary to this whole argument) and whether or not its direction/continuity is real or an illusion of our consciousnesses. I have for some time been leaning towards the idea that time is actually instantaneous (i.e. all states exists simultaneously), and that our perception of its passage and the speed thereof is an illusion created by the limitations of electro-chemical reactions in our brain (think "time flies when you're having fun" and go from there).

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Free Will is such a vauge term

Basically, our minds are governed by a complex set of chemical reactions. Every decision we make is an embodiment of years of experience, and trial and error. We make unconscious comparisons in our mind when doing any action.

Practically, we probably have free will, if you mean that no outside force governs our decisions

However, from a biological perspective, no

One interesting perspective is that our minds (or consciousness, whatever you want to call it) are just giant state machines that produce a given output (a decision) as a function of the present state of our mind and the state of all inputs from the outside world that would affect the decision. Granted there are probably billions of states and factors that influence our decisions, but the end result is that our actions are just a product of the way each of our brains are hardwired to respond under the given circumstances. Because there are so many different situations and factors that can influence our decisions, this gives us the illusion of free will.

IMO, there are very compelling reasons to believe that this perspective is false, or at the very least, not knowably true. For more information, I suggest wading through:

Minds, Machines, and Gödel, by J.R. Lucas

or

Yesterday's Algorithm: Penrose and the Godel Argument (PDF), by William Seager.