Your Personal Views on Foreign Ownership of US firms and property?

[pmv]

That's the change you voted for no?

Depends how you define "you", I guess. Not sure what your point is, though.

 

[Jaskalas]

Your Personal Views on Foreign Ownership of US firms and property?

In a time of peace, with peaceful nations, I wouldn't really care. Frolic, do business, be merry.
But as of 2022 we have entered a time of great blood shedding. Most of the killing hasn't even occurred yet.
One of the nations buying up a lot of our land, has already vowed to engage in war and killing to erase (cause Genocide) the people of Taiwan.

Given their promise of violence, we must divest and remove them from any and all leverage over us.

 

[sdifox]

Depends how you define "you", I guess. Not sure what your point is, though.

Stop giving tories chances to fuck the people over?

 

[soulcougher73]

I'm against it for certain things like real estate, utilities etc. Jean company? Go for it

 

[Zorba]

Spanish utility Iberdrola offers to buy remaining shares to take 100% ownership of Avangrid​

Spanish utility Iberdrola is proposing to buy out the shares it doesn’t control in Central Maine Power’s parent company for about $2.5 billion.


I'm generally opposed to foreign ownership of media, utilities, banks and large blocks of real estate.

There's also the Saudi land issue in AZ and Chinese land deals around military bases among a number of other things.

You forgot infrastructure, many roads, especially in Texas are foreign owned and operated.

 

[Zorba]

So is it a problem that I as a Dane (or a Danish capital fund) can invest in a US company or vice versa?

I don't believe so.

There is a problem if the investor is a state and especially a totalitarian one. So I can understand the wish to limit investment from Chinese or companies situated in other totalitarian countries, as they can easily be considered to be part of a political agenda.

I think there are some things that are too critical for foreign ownership, similar to our ITAR rules. Infrastructure, mines of strategic materials, etc. I don't love foreign investment in housing, but as long as its occupied, then it probably doesn't matter. Other than that, I don't think foreign investment is a big deal. The US owns a lot all over the world too

 

[Zorba]

In a time of peace, with peaceful nations, I wouldn't really care. Frolic, do business, be merry.
But as of 2022 we have entered a time of great blood shedding. Most of the killing hasn't even occurred yet.
One of the nations buying up a lot of our land, has already vowed to engage in war and killing to erase (cause Genocide) the people of Taiwan.

Given their promise of violence, we must divest and remove them from any and all leverage over us.

Have you stopped to consider the massive economic ties is what has kept the peace so far? I'm sure in a direct war we'd either seize or freeze their ownership.

 

[pmv]

Have you stopped to consider the massive economic ties is what has kept the peace so far?

To a degree, perhaps. Much more the case for China than Russia. Surely in the latter case what's kept the peace so far is fear of mutual nuclear destruction?
Just seems like we're in a paradoxical situation - we have all the economic interdependence of the current era, and yet we still have the Great Power rivalries and nationalism that we've always had.

 

[akugami]

I don't care about foreign ownership of most things. However, there are some industries, and real estate that should be regulated.

First, any media outlet, and I'm not talking about social media, which is not social, and is most definitely not media. But if it is an accredited media outlet, then that's a hard no. Even US citizens with a heavy foreign presences should face higher scrutiny. For this reason, Tik Tok, which is a social media site/app, should be allowed. Any government official making critical communications through Tik Tok needs to be fired ASAP.

Critical utilities and infrastructure companies. Utilities like power, gas, and the telecommunication pipes should be a no. We're not talking things like solar panels, but the actual power utilities for example. Companies like Verizon, T-Mobile, Comcast, etc. should not be foreign owned.

Real estate should be open for everyone except for cases where they are near places like military bases. Regarding things like farms, water and other natural resources should be closely scrutinized for abuse. And that means not defunding the EPA like the GOP has been doing.

The manufacturing of critical hardware such as networking equipment used for government telecommunications should always be manufactured locally. I don't care if it's more expensive. Don't leave the potential for backdoors because it is foreign made in there. Likewise for military gear.

I'm probably missing a few other cases where foreign ownership should be banned or restricted, but those are some of the ones I feel are critical.

 

[Zorba]

To a degree, perhaps. Much more the case for China than Russia. Surely in the latter case what's kept the peace so far is fear of mutual nuclear destruction?
Just seems like we're in a paradoxical situation - we have all the economic interdependence of the current era, and yet we still have the Great Power rivalries and nationalism that we've always had.

MAD helps too. And while we do have the rivalries and nationalism we've always had, we haven't had the major wars that we've always have.

I think Russia severely under estimated the economic penalties of attacking Ukraine, likely because they had gotten away with so much previously.

 

[pmv]

MAD helps too. And while we do have the rivalries and nationalism we've always had, we haven't had the major wars that we've always have.

I think Russia severely under estimated the economic penalties of attacking Ukraine, likely because they had gotten away with so much previously.

On the other hand, I think the West severely overestimated those economic penalties. Russia is relatively well-insulated against them, as an exporter of raw materials and fossil fuel, and not much else. China, fortunately, is in a very different situation. They depend on the international economic status quo continuing to function normally. The disruption of a war would be disastrous for them, but it hasn't been for Russia.

I just find it so weird that we are in this interconnected era yet are still in many ways in the 19th century. Watching YouTube videos about the war and being vaguely aware Russians may be watching the same things, and even commenting on them. Seeing new posters on here and sometimes wondering if they are Russians. Not really how it was back in the days of the Crimean war, say.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I'm less concerned about it than the corporate takeover of non-commercial property. And likewise, compared to Saudi situation down here where they were getting water from an acquifer and growing alfalfa, I'm more concerned about the water deal with Nestle, to take the water we're already paying to import to sell to them for nearly nothing so they can package it in plastic bottles and sell it back to us at probably 1000x the price.

 

[darkswordsman17]

The company I work for "owns" a facility in China. Of course one worry is that the Chinese will just take it under the guise of some state security or something. I suppose the US could do the same if it became a problem. But generally I am not a big fan of foreign ownership of our sovereign soil.

I worked for a company several years ago, where the FBI showed up to give us a ridiculous presentation (seriously was up there with the "you wouldn't download a car" shit that they put during movie previews; only it was like a whole mini-series complete with racist Chinese caricatures) that basically boiled down to "if you see an Asian person, call the police". They were going around to corporations in the Midwest, because I believe Ball (the glass jar manufacturer) had some Chinese people show up and access their facilities (with very vague claims of what they even did, but scaremongering that it cost the company like $100million). I'm not sure if they were aware the company they were giving the presentation to had an office in China.

What difference does it make whether Fox is owned by Aussies or Americans? Shit is still shit regardless of ownership.

Substitute Murdoch with Koch or Phony Stark, the result is the same.

By that same token what difference does it make if social media company is in cahoots with American or Chinese intelligence services, they're both spying on US citizens and doing dirty shit with the information. Hell, if you're a foreign power you can access the information that American social media companies are selling as the Cambridge Analytica situation showed.

I'm fine with making social media companies having to comply with privacy guards. That should apply just as much to American companies though.

 

[nOOky]

I worked for a company several years ago, where the FBI showed up to give us a ridiculous presentation (seriously was up there with the "you wouldn't download a car" shit that they put during movie previews; only it was like a whole mini-series complete with racist Chinese caricatures) that basically boiled down to "if you see an Asian person, call the police". They were going around to corporations in the Midwest, because I believe Ball (the glass jar manufacturer) had some Chinese people show up and access their facilities (with very vague claims of what they even did, but scaremongering that it cost the company like $100million). I'm not sure if they were aware the company they were giving the presentation to had an office in China.



By that same token what difference does it make if social media company is in cahoots with American or Chinese intelligence services, they're both spying on US citizens and doing dirty shit with the information. Hell, if you're a foreign power you can access the information that American social media companies are selling as the Cambridge Analytica situation showed.

I'm fine with making social media companies having to comply with privacy guards. That should apply just as much to American companies though.

Our facility in Suzhou China had a pallet of packaging material stolen from the dock. A few weeks later it started showing up as well as copies of our materials that did not meet our customers requirements. So our team there had to weed out requests and inquiries from companies that were not our customers for about 1 1/2 years after the fact. In some instances we ended up replacing materials we did not make to avoid negative press from them. We all received an email alerting us here in the US to be on watch for things like that here.

 

[sdifox]

I worked for a company several years ago, where the FBI showed up to give us a ridiculous presentation (seriously was up there with the "you wouldn't download a car" shit that they put during movie previews; only it was like a whole mini-series complete with racist Chinese caricatures) that basically boiled down to "if you see an Asian person, call the police". They were going around to corporations in the Midwest, because I believe Ball (the glass jar manufacturer) had some Chinese people show up and access their facilities (with very vague claims of what they even did, but scaremongering that it cost the company like $100million). I'm not sure if they were aware the company they were giving the presentation to had an office in China.



By that same token what difference does it make if social media company is in cahoots with American or Chinese intelligence services, they're both spying on US citizens and doing dirty shit with the information. Hell, if you're a foreign power you can access the information that American social media companies are selling as the Cambridge Analytica situation showed.

I'm fine with making social media companies having to comply with privacy guards. That should apply just as much to American companies though.

The difference is national security concerns. Cambridge Analytica case was legislative failure. At this point we have to consider big data sensitive information and it has to be tightly monitored.

 

[Jaskalas]

Have you stopped to consider the massive economic ties is what has kept the peace so far? I'm sure in a direct war we'd either seize or freeze their ownership.

Russia sacrificed all ties for its own manifest destiny.

Germany / Europe's whole idea of peace and defense regarding Russia... was economics. Make them value money over killing people.
Turns out, humans will still choose killing over making money. After all, you can loot the dead and exploit their land. You can send undesirables in meat waves and cleanse your own prisons. Win/win/win far as the enemy is concerned.

I will not expect behavior any different from anyone else. Economics will not hold humanity at bay. Besides, you can still trade and limit foreign ownership from hostile nations.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Like any big topic you can't get down to all the nuance in a single post.

- No issues with broad based foreign investment. The one element of Neoliberal ideology that isn't pure dogshit is the idea that closer economic ties between nations means nations have more to lose than gain by warring against each other. Bigger net of entanglements, louder and more forceful shouting to shut down an aggressor because it puts more people at risk.

-However there needs to be a tiered system. Strategically vital industries need to be wholly American owned or governed at the least (utilities, food production, housing, semiconductors, news/information etc). Adjacent industries can have a minority cap on foreign investment (no foreign investor can have a majority share). Then there is everything else, like if the PRC wants to open up a Chairman Mao's Dumplings chain or something, have at it.

It's not an all or nothing kind of thing.

 

[Zorba]

Russia sacrificed all ties for its own manifest destiny.

Germany / Europe's whole idea of peace and defense regarding Russia... was economics. Make them value money over killing people.
Turns out, humans will still choose killing over making money. After all, you can loot the dead and exploit their land. You can send undesirables in meat waves and cleanse your own prisons. Win/win/win far as the enemy is concerned.

I will not expect behavior any different from anyone else. Economics will not hold humanity at bay. Besides, you can still trade and limit foreign ownership from hostile nations.

China seems a little more concerned about their populous than Russia. That said, I think Putin didn't think he'd actually face the economic consequences he did. I think it was a miscalculation, and also a massive warning to China.

 

[eelw]

House just passed bill to force ByteDance to sell TikTok to American company or ban app. Obviously not a done deal since it still has to go through the senate.

 

[Fenixgoon]

House just passed bill to force ByteDance to sell TikTok to American company or ban app. Obviously not a done deal since it still has to go through the senate.

Stupid. Free speech anyone?

 

[fskimospy]

So are we basically arguing against foreign investment in the US?

Foreign ownership is fine. There are a few areas of national security importance where it shouldn't be allowed but generally speaking the more, the merrier.

 

[K1052]

Stupid. Free speech anyone?

I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over requiring divestment of what is essentially CCP spyware and social manipulation.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

There are already plenty of laws on the books limiting foreign ownership of critical national infrastructure such as utilities, energy production, news media, etc.

High time the law caught up with social media platforms (throw AI in there while the iron is still hot).

Tik-tock might have shot itself in the foot with their push notification stunt where they urged all their adult users to contact their local reps (they knew who their reps were thanks to location data) telling them to vote against this bill. I mean, if you need a clearer demonstration of the danger some of these massive tech companies have, there it is.

Imagine a foreign owned social media company telling all its users to vote against a certain candidate, law, etc through push notifications that you hold near and dear...

 

[sdifox]

Stupid. Free speech anyone?

Does free speech apply to enemy state operating in the USA?

 

[pmv]

Does free speech apply to enemy state operating in the USA?

Don't have an answer for that question, but surely one could equally ask, does it apply to enemy rich plutocrats operating in one's country? I mean, we have a staggering number of "think tanks" (pretending to be 'educational' and in many cases getting classified as 'charities') and media conglomerates pumping out propaganda on behalf of the rich people (mostly, but not exclusively, Americans) who own and fund them. In many cases those people don't even care if their media outlets are commercially viable, yet alone profitable, as long as they get to put their propaganda out there.

What are the limits to 'free speech' that you propose? (I mean, I think the whole concept of 'free speech' is pretty ill-defined, so I don't really know, myself)