Your parents ever talk to you about money?

[Rumpltzer]

My parents put us into the middle class; maybe the lower-middle class. Neither of my parents finished high school, but they worked hard and they saved. We always had a place to live, food, a car, etc. They are cheap people, and this could sometimes be embarrassing for us as kids... but what could we do? We (as kids) certainly never complained.

My parents (father) had something against credit cards, and they were vocal about the importance of saving money. I can't say that they ever directly talked to me (us) about money, but we were well aware by the example that was set.

My parents were clear to me from at least middle school that they wouldn't be helping me to pay for college. This left it to me to figure it out, so I did. I paid my way through undergrad and grad school (as an engineer) paid for itself.

I do well now. I'm not a cheap guy. I have money, and I will spend money to enjoy life. That means a nice car every 8-10 years, travel, saving for legitimate family vacations pretty much every year, and I don't mind spending $40 on a shirt that I like (or $100 if the woman wants a shirt... I don't hold her to my standard).

I've never had credit card debt or paid late fees (or interest!) on a credit card. I've put away about a third of my retirement savings, so I'm on-track with that. I have enough liquid cash to keep me going without altering my lifestyle for probably four to six months... so I imagine that that could be stretched if necessary. I also have marketable skills, and I'm not too proud to take lesser work if I needed to.

So, while my parents didn't specifically give me lessons or talks about money, their example (both good and bad) have influenced me. I try to pass that along to those I'm responsible for... while being careful that they're not embarrassed by me because of a money issue.

 

[cbrunny]

What if the parent's parents didn't talk to them about money, and so the parents have felt stuck all of their lives as well? Could just be that they inherited the problem too. This is why I think personal finance should be taught in schools...there's no consistency between any given set of parents regarding financial training. Your parents could be alcoholics or spendthrifts or millionaires & still not teach you the basics. Maybe you luck out & get parents who do, or are smart enough at a young age to get a handle on the basics, or maybe you have to learn the hard way. It's all luck of the draw until you get to the point where you realize you need to take personal responsibility for the finances under your management.

I'd be in favour of teaching some basic personal finance in schools, provided it was in the vein of "debt is evil"

 

[dr150]

3) Freedom! To do what you want is an amazing feeling. Most middle class people wait until they're retired to go on adventures and live the life they've always wanted. By then, you're too old. Many retires have too much money and too little time. I don't want to explore the world at 60 or 65.

Very true.

You're old. Now you have saved a good amount. But your body and will is milled down (i.e. no travel except stupid cruise ships, at best).

Travel (especially the really adventurous shit) should definitely be done when you're young.

 

[Kaido]

There was (still is?) a big push to have financial education in schools but its running into a huge hurtle - almost all studies done on financial education in school shows it doesn't work.

I think part of that is because school curriculum are generally pretty mediocre. Also, I never had a single financial class in K through 12, not one - just some general math classes, so I don't even know what it would be like. I think the family board game "Game of Life" taught me more about personal finances than anything, really

But I'd imagine that doing something like a paper management system where you just work with the numbers in every class, and do that every semester so that you can see the evolution of money over time (i.e. a program that does an accelerated timeline to show growth of a 401k, growth of credit card debt, monthly payments, and so on) would help a lot because then you'd (1) have a basic system to work with, (2) know what options are available to you, and (3) see what happens over time to your money, so even if you don't fully develop personal habits, you're at least not in the dark about your decisions, you know?

 

[dank69]

I never knew money was such a taboo subject. Never had any problems discussing money with my folks.

 

[Brainonska511]

I think part of that is because school curriculum are generally pretty mediocre. Also, I never had a single financial class in K through 12, not one - just some general math classes, so I don't even know what it would be like. I think the family board game "Game of Life" taught me more about personal finances than anything, really

Funny enough, that's part of the reason for the recent push to change math education to include more word problems (that some parents can't stand). There is lots of math in our everyday lives, but it's often not super straightforward and needs to be deciphered.

 

[Kaido]

I'd be in favour of teaching some basic personal finance in schools, provided it was in the vein of "debt is evil"

Well, it gets difficult because some debt is "good" debt:

1. Education
2. Car
3. House

That doesn't mean you need an Ivy League education or a $45,000 BMW or a mansion, but you do need to get trained to do your job, a way to get to work, and a roof over your head. You can skip the debt if you just jump into the workforce directly & skip school, buy a used car in cash, and rent, but that doesn't always equate to strong earning power, so if you want to get married, have kids, settle down into a place of your own, you usually have to amass some kind of debt up front, unless you have rich parents or get lucky with an awesome-paying job that covers the full amount of school, a car, and a home.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah, college is a tricky thing. I've always been very transparent and blunt with my kids on the value of things. Probably to the point of being too blunt...but anyway...

You start out simple. There's a donut shop I take my kids to. The regular glazed donuts are $.79. They have a very fancy donut with bright frosting and sprinkles that is $3.00. Of course my kids want the fancy sprinkled one and I want to punch the genius at the shop that did that marketing tactic.

So I do the basic math with my 8 year old. If these are almost a dollar, and that one is 3 dollars....how many of these can I buy for the same price? She says three. And then I say OK, so if both you and your brother want one of those, how much is it? She says $6. And I say, ok, so how many donuts is that of the cheaper ones? She lowers her head and says "Six". Which then follows up with, which is the better deal?

Six. And it's the same thing with shiny trinkets and fluffy things and what not at all the knick knack stores. What else could you buy with that money?

So now on to college

They are just starting that whole career day thing in the early elementary grades. And she comes home saying she wants to be this or that. Which leads to discussions about college and masters and professional (MD/PharmD/PhD/ect) and what it requires to do those different jobs.

My wife is a pharmacist and my daughter has a very good understanding of how much college and post college work is required for that. My wife can't do her job without her degree. Can't even sit for her licensing without it. We've been very transparent and blunt about the value of different degrees and what you can and can't do with them. What things make for good hobbies, and what make for good careers. And what you have to do to get into different jobs.

We haven't advanced to the level of state vs. private education costs yet though.

 

[zinfamous]

[snip]

For example, it changed my mind from thinking of a house as an asset, but rather as a liability, which really gets people all up in arms. So defining income as money in, expenditures as money out, assets as things that make you money, and liabilities as things that take money away from you, his point is to invest in things that create cash flow, not appreciation, especially since there's no guarantee that your house will sell at a profit over what you paid for it: (re: the housing market crash)

good points, and especially this. You are exactly right. I think it's very difficult for people to see it that way--even if you understand that, as a homeowner, it's difficult to convince yourself of how true it is. But it's very much true.

I think the difference is in being able to come to terms with that fact (OK, I have this sinkhole of iliquid money that does nothing for me, roots me into a place for a very long time with limited freedom and questionable real value--like a neighborhood and city who's value is completely dependent on forces well outside of my control, endless expenses like plumbing and roofs and HVAC, etc) and accepting it simply because you want that. Which is absolutely perfectly fine; or just obstinately denying it because you have convinced yourself, through the decades of brainwashing by real estate speculators, agents, parents, society, that "The house is the greatest thing ever: it will always rise in value! always!" ...yeah, that has never been true on an individual basis. When you look at data that compiles national markets, yeah it sure look true. But the colossal rise in value over the last 3 or 4 years in cities like Austin doesn't mean much to someone that bought a house in Stockton, CA back in 2004, got foreclosed in 2007 and moved into a tent.

...it's an issue of understanding the reality and risks involved, and happily accepting those.

 

[Exterous]

I'd be in favour of teaching some basic personal finance in schools, provided it was in the vein of "debt is evil"

Not sure why you'd want to start with a lie...

I think part of that is because school curriculum are generally pretty mediocre.

I think thats an overly harsh estimation of the studies as many of them involve incredibly competent educators who are also subject matter experts teaching very intelligent student bodies.

 

[Kaido]

Funny enough, that's part of the reason for the recent push to change math education to include more word problems (that some parents can't stand). There is lots of math in our everyday lives, but it's often not super straightforward and needs to be deciphered.

Yeah. I think it helps to have some kind of personalized system that meets your needs & goals. Everyone does it differently too...there was another thread here discussing how people managing finances with their S.O. & it was all over the map. For me, I have a pretty basic system:

1. We have his & her AMEX Serve cards (basically really neat reloadable debit cards that act like credit cards) that get a weekly allowance. Covers going out to lunch or dinner, buying toys off Amazon or Newegg, getting nails & hair done, etc. Each card has its own app with a quick-swipe check so you can see the remaining balance; there's no risk of overdrawing a bank account or clashing with the other person's "mad money", plus I don't have to track every single purchase like I did in the past. Also nice for stuff like birthdays & Christmas because then you have a little more discretion on picking out surprises without the other person knowing what you bought!

2. We have one small credit card, which gets paid off monthly, that we use mainly for gas (usually puts a $150 temporary hold, so there's enough buffer for a couple fillups) & emergencies (ex. $400 for a flat tire); it's a different brand from AMEX so it also acts as a backup if a place doesn't take AMEX or it goes down for whatever reason. We use this & the AMEX cards to prevent card theft as well, since they're both pretty good about reimbursements (we've had three fake card readers yanked in my town already!). Basically no risk of the debit card getting lost or stolen because we simply don't use it, so the bank account stays as well-protected as possible.

3. Paychecks go into the primary bank account, where all of the recurring bills & savings are set to autopay on a schedule, managed by a simple shared Google Docs spreadsheet. This gives us a quick list to review of what our bills are & when they are due, and I don't have to manage every single bill payment throughout the month, which is nice.

I like this system a lot because it's automated & safe. Public purchases are protected by the credit card companies, I don't have to babysit it every day for tracking purchases & paying bills, and it's pretty easy to stay out of trouble because it limits what you can spend - you can't drink from the firehose, so to speak, because you're pretty much limited to your "allowance" account & the emergency card for backup. Low-maintenance & fairly hassle-free :thumbsup:

If kids were taught something like that, and then taught how to manage "good debt" (school, transportation, housing), as well as a basic budget (food, utilities, toiletries, various types of savings accounts - 401k, CHET, rainy day, etc.; don't buy what you can't afford, basically), that would keep them out of trouble 99% of the time. It's not rocket science, but if you never get a solid foundation under you, it's all too easy to magically become an adult over time & still be stuck with the same poor financial habits as when you were younger. The number of people I know who make good money but are still living paycheck to paycheck is staggering, and it's hard not to feel trapped if you're already stuck & don't know where to turn for solid financial advice, because everyone's always trying to sell you something. It gets messy!

 

[Miramonti]

When I was five, I had an allowance of 15 cents a week, which I had to save 5 cents in a jar. When I was 7, my allowance was up to 25 cents, which I had to save 10 cents in the jar.

As a result, I think saving money whenever possible was embedded in me at a very early age. Sometimes my parents just got it right.

 

[vi edit]

1. We have his & her AMEX Serve cards (basically really neat reloadable debit cards that act like credit cards) that get a weekly allowance. Covers going out to lunch or dinner, buying toys off Amazon or Newegg, getting nails & hair done, etc. Each card has its own app with a quick-swipe check so you can see the remaining balance; there's no risk of overdrawing a bank account or clashing with the other person's "mad money", plus I don't have to track every single purchase like I did in the past. Also nice for stuff like birthdays & Christmas because then you have a little more discretion on picking out surprises without the other person knowing what you bought!

Oooh. I totally need to look at these. It's perfect for my wife who is horrible about micro-transactioning the credit cards to death. Give her $150 for the month and when it's done...so is she.

 

[Kaido]

I think thats an overly harsh estimation of the studies as many of them involve incredibly competent educators who are also subject matter experts teaching very intelligent student bodies.

I don't disagree with that; there are a lot of excellent teachers & students out there, but sometimes the system is just crummy for a variety of reasons not related to the people. Like math & language especially...all of the classes I went to (non-AP) were always ridiculously accelerated to the point where I couldn't keep up. I'm not that dumb of a guy, but stuff like calculus & Spanish simply don't come naturally to me, and the teachers have to each 30+ kids per class and sometimes cater to the middle or lower-level knowledgebase, or else go along a rigorous schedule to meet requirements, so it really depended on the class in question. We had short classes (~45 minutes each iirc) in high school as well, I think it was 7 classes a day, so there was an insane amount of homework given on a daily basis. College was a cakewalk compared to high school because I had plenty of time to get everything done!

I also didn't care for the fact that I felt like I didn't really learn much of anything useful. My school didn't have a shop class. No financial classes. Nothing that actually applied to the real world. Anyway, enough complaining. My point isn't to bash on the educators or students, just that I haven't seen any grade schools where they actually teach you a lot of stuff that will help you in life...it always felt more like crowd control than productive time, you know? I wish they had taught me stuff like personal finance, basic home repair, how college & jobs actually work in the real world, that sort of stuff. Even stuff like Home Ec would have been awesome! Fortunately we have Youtube now, along with the "Dummies" line of books (hehe), so it's easier to skate by because you have more & easier access to information now.

 

[Kaido]

Oooh. I totally need to look at these. It's perfect for my wife who is horrible about micro-transactioning the credit cards to death. Give her $150 for the month and when it's done...so is she.

Yup, exactly! Here's the website:

https://www.serve.com/

You can order the cards online or pick them up at a local place like CVS. It's basically a bank-free debit card. Works at ATM's if you need cash. You can load it directly from your bank account & setup a scheduled auto-deposit if you want to refill it. I think the monthly fee is like a dollar per month, but they have special sometimes that let you sign up without it. Even so, for the convenience, it's easily worth $12 a year.

Plus the app lets you check your balance & history, and has a quick-swipe feature to let you see how much money is left in the account without having to actually log in. So you can basically give her a card, set it up to fill up every week (if she has spending problems, do it weekly rather than monthly so it doesn't feel like such a long strech before refills), and have her check the balance using the swipe feature on the phone app without having to call you or check the bank account balance online. Voila!

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yeah, college is a tricky thing. I've always been very transparent and blunt with my kids on the value of things. Probably to the point of being too blunt...but anyway...

You start out simple. There's a donut shop I take my kids to. The regular glazed donuts are $.79. They have a very fancy donut with bright frosting and sprinkles that is $3.00. Of course my kids want the fancy sprinkled one and I want to punch the genius at the shop that did that marketing tactic.

So I do the basic math with my 8 year old. If these are almost a dollar, and that one is 3 dollars....how many of these can I buy for the same price? She says three. And then I say OK, so if both you and your brother want one of those, how much is it? She says $6. And I say, ok, so how many donuts is that of the cheaper ones? She lowers her head and says "Six". Which then follows up with, which is the better deal?

Six. And it's the same thing with shiny trinkets and fluffy things and what not at all the knick knack stores. What else could you buy with that money?

So now on to college

They are just starting that whole career day thing in the early elementary grades. And she comes home saying she wants to be this or that. Which leads to discussions about college and masters and professional (MD/PharmD/PhD/ect) and what it requires to do those different jobs.

My wife is a pharmacist and my daughter has a very good understanding of how much college and post college work is required for that. My wife can't do her job without her degree. Can't even sit for her licensing without it. We've been very transparent and blunt about the value of different degrees and what you can and can't do with them. What things make for good hobbies, and what make for good careers. And what you have to do to get into different jobs.

We haven't advanced to the level of state vs. private education costs yet though.

You better be explaining TCO and durable goods and stuff to her. (At 8 or 9, she's probably old enough to get it. ) Maybe not so much for donuts, yeah, but sometimes the $5 widget is a better deal than the $2 widget.

Otherwise you're just raising another penny-wise and pound-foolish Walmart customer. :thumbsdown:

 

[vi edit]

You better be explaining TCO and durable goods and stuff to her. (At 8 or 9, she's probably old enough to get it. ) Maybe not so much for donuts, yeah, but sometimes the $5 widget is a better deal than the $2 widget.

Otherwise you're just raising another penny-wise and pound-foolish Walmart customer. :thumbsdown:

Yeah we use sticker charts for chores. Each "chore" roughly represented $.10 and then made up a catalog from Amazon stuff that showed how many chores it required to get different things.

5 stickers = pencil from a dispenser at school.
150 stickers = barbie
2500 stickers = ipad mini

I'm totally about buying better quality goods and will instill that in my kids. Sprinkles and fancy frosting did not merit the 3x increase in price and that was what I was trying to relay. The donut was still the same.

 

[purbeast0]

My wife is a pharmacist and my daughter has a very good understanding of how much college and post college work is required for that. My wife can't do her job without her degree. Can't even sit for her licensing without it. We've been very transparent and blunt about the value of different degrees and what you can and can't do with them. What things make for good hobbies, and what make for good careers. And what you have to do to get into different jobs.

my dad being a doctor is one of the major reason i never ever wanted to become a doctor. the amount of hours he worked and the amount of school he had to go to just to be able to do that ... no thanks.

it's definitely a very rewarding job though that is for sure.

 

[BurnItDwn]

my mom had wisdom and more or less said that money isnt everything and that material posessions can take over you.

My father was shortsighted and talked only about money. he is/was a smart investor, and a hard worker, but after 2 ugly divorces, hes become quite the gambling addict ... so, while he may have earned an average of over 200K for the last dozen or so years, his net worth is depressingly low.

 

[kt]

Yup, exactly! Here's the website:

https://www.serve.com/

You can order the cards online or pick them up at a local place like CVS. It's basically a bank-free debit card. Works at ATM's if you need cash. You can load it directly from your bank account & setup a scheduled auto-deposit if you want to refill it. I think the monthly fee is like a dollar per month, but they have special sometimes that let you sign up without it. Even so, for the convenience, it's easily worth $12 a year.

Plus the app lets you check your balance & history, and has a quick-swipe feature to let you see how much money is left in the account without having to actually log in. So you can basically give her a card, set it up to fill up every week (if she has spending problems, do it weekly rather than monthly so it doesn't feel like such a long strech before refills), and have her check the balance using the swipe feature on the phone app without having to call you or check the bank account balance online. Voila!

It's a neat idea but dangerous territory. You need to have your SO buy-in on this, or you'll be lucky to have a couch to sleep on.

 

[pauldun170]

Very true.

You're old. Now you have saved a good amount. But your body and will is milled down (i.e. no travel except stupid cruise ships, at best).

Travel (especially the really adventurous shit) should definitely be done when you're young.

I know a few 50-70 year olds enjoying their retirement. Travelling the world. Mountain climbing. skiing. boating. In great shape and in good health (Marathoners, gym rats, weirdo vegetarians).
One of the big things they are doing a lot of fucking.

 

[zinfamous]

I know a few 50-70 year olds enjoying their retirement. Travelling the world. Mountain climbing. skiing. boating. In great shape and in good health (Marathoners, gym rats, weirdo vegetarians).
One of the big things they are doing a lot of fucking.

pics?

 

[vi edit]

my dad being a doctor is one of the major reason i never ever wanted to become a doctor. the amount of hours he worked and the amount of school he had to go to just to be able to do that ... no thanks.

it's definitely a very rewarding job though that is for sure.

Healthcare (particularly in my wife's case, cardiac ICU based healthcare) is not an easy profession. On the person doing it, or on family they are part of. My wife works a lot of hours, comes home very exhausted, does a ton of other work keeping up to date on therapies and practices and does a decent amount of travel for conferences and training.

It's not a job where you are supposed to get off at 4:00PM and get a lifeflight transfer @ 3:45 and pack up your stuff an leave. You process the admission, do an appropriate handoff and end up walking out at 5:45 and hope you have a spouse that can pick up the kids for you.

As a family we are still working on managing that and it's an entirely different, yet equally as important lesson to teach kids. Some jobs are very difficult and sometimes Mommy and Daddy come home very tired and very upset. Yes we want to listen and talk to you...but we need some quiet time first. My wife is really working on explaining to the kids just how hard her job is and the amount of "Stuff" she does. My daughter is starting to get it and is able to respect those days my wife comes home and just collapses. My son isn't old enough yet.

 

[Miramonti]

It's a neat idea but dangerous territory. You need to have your SO buy-in on this, or you'll be lucky to have a couch to sleep on.

That probably depends on one's spousal's relationship between each other with money. Here, I think that card would be perfect and very appreciated.

The irony is that we each had one of those Serve cards when they first came out, but only got them for the free $25 promo to apply for it. After using the $50 on them, I cancelled the cards. To me that was just being frugal.

 

[thesmokingman]

I know a few 50-70 year olds enjoying their retirement. Travelling the world. Mountain climbing. skiing. boating. In great shape and in good health (Marathoners, gym rats, weirdo vegetarians).
One of the big things they are doing a lot of

Spoiler

fucking.

Omg, TMI TMI.