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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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System of equations

Specific problem-

4x-5y = 18
3x-2y = 10


I'm more interested in the technique necessary to do this so she understands what's what. She tried, but got the wrong answer, and it's been since dinosaurs walked the earth since I've done one.
 

Legendary

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2002
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Solve one equation for 1 variable in terms of the other variable (y = 3/2x - 5)
substitute that 'solution' into the other equation [4x - 5(3/2x - 5) = 18]
solve other equation for the only variable that remains
solve for the other variable
 

TuxDave

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Oct 8, 2002
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There's a couple techniques, it probably better to show her and see which one the teacher showed in class to get an idea what she's supposed to be learning at the moment.

1) Find the least common denominator of one coefficients of the variables. Let's say X which has a 3 and a 4 so the least common denominator is 12.

2) Multiply the lines to get "12" in front of the X
3*(4x-5y) = 3*18
12x-15y = 54

4*(3x-2y)=4*10
12x-8y = 40

3) Subtract one line from the other
(12x-15y)-(12x-8y) = 54-40
-7y = 14
y = -2

4) Plug it back in and resolve for x... etc..



The other method is to just solve for one and plug it into the other equation
4x-5y=18
4x = 18+5y
x = 0.25*(18+5y)

3x-2y=10
3(0.25*(18+5y)) - 2y = 10
solve for y
solve for x

etc...
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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Most likely, with problems set up like that, the teacher is teaching the elimination method - TuxDave's first method he listed.

The work would probably be arranged something like this
3(4x-5y = 18 ) 12x-15y=54
-4(3x-2y = 10) -12x+8y=-40
.....................-----------------
..............................-7y=14
.................................y=-2
4x-5y=18
4x-5(-2)=18
4x+10=18
4x=8
x=2
Answer: (2,-2)
Check:
4x-5y=18 ....... 3x-2y=10
4(2)-5(-2)=18 3(2)-2(-2)=10
18=18(ck)..........10=10(ck)


edit: here's a powerpoint I made to show my own students exactly how I want their work arranged. here
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Thanks guys. It seems she has the technique right, but she couldn't see the sign error she made.



 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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This is one of those areas in math where students can be destroyed by a bad teacher. Most teachers will try to quickly show the students 5-6 different methods to solve this same problem. They give each student a couple problems with each method, and then expect them to be able to solve the problem with any method. I've even seen the teacher give a 0 on a test for a student having the correct answer but whom did not a method that was taught in class.

What happens? The students get confused, don't know what method to use or why, and give up entirely on math. They think they are "bad" at math. But in reality, they had a bad teacher. And this is one point where many people make this decision to hate math forever.

Watch your daughter and her teacher. Make certain your daughter can solve that problem correctly with ONE method. Then have her use that method repeatedly. For the rest of her life, she'll be able to solve that type of problem correctly. Even if that means she is a bit less efficient - she can still solve it. And, she won't hate math.

 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
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Originally posted by: dullard
This is one of those areas in math where students can be destroyed by a bad teacher. Most teachers will try to quickly show the students 5-6 different methods to solve this same problem. They give each student a couple problems with each method, and then expect them to be able to solve the problem with any method. I've even seen the teacher give a 0 on a test for a student having the correct answer but whom did not a method that was taught in class.

What happens? The students get confused, don't know what method to use or why, and give up entirely on math. They think they are "bad" at math. But in reality, they had a bad teacher. And this is one point where many people make this decision to hate math forever.

Watch your daughter and her teacher. Make certain your daughter can solve that problem correctly with ONE method. Then have her use that method repeatedly. For the rest of her life, she'll be able to solve that type of problem correctly. Even if that means she is a bit less efficient - she can still solve it. And, she won't hate math.

QFT.
This is exactly what happened to me and I gave up. I tried algebra again in college and barely got through it. I could always get the answer right but it was only worth 1 point and the work was worth 9.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
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Originally posted by: dullard
This is one of those areas in math where students can be destroyed by a bad teacher. Most teachers will try to quickly show the students 5-6 different methods to solve this same problem. They give each student a couple problems with each method, and then expect them to be able to solve the problem with any method. I've even seen the teacher give a 0 on a test for a student having the correct answer but whom did not a method that was taught in class.

What happens? The students get confused, don't know what method to use or why, and give up entirely on math. They think they are "bad" at math. But in reality, they had a bad teacher. And this is one point where many people make this decision to hate math forever.

Watch your daughter and her teacher. Make certain your daughter can solve that problem correctly with ONE method. Then have her use that method repeatedly. For the rest of her life, she'll be able to solve that type of problem correctly. Even if that means she is a bit less efficient - she can still solve it. And, she won't hate math.

I disagree. The elimination method leads to guassian elimination when working with 3 or more equations with 3 or more unknowns. However, that method will not work when solving a system of equations such as
y=x^2 + 3x -5
2x + 3y = 15

Furthermore, in the former case of a system of equations, the substitution method does not lend itself well to
2x + 3y + 4z = 12
3x - 2y +8z = 11
5x + 6y = 9z = 15

While I wouldn't necessarily give a student a zero for using the wrong method, I feel it's important to learn both of those techniques, along with a graphical approach (graph the lines, see where they cross.) I make my expectations very well known to the students - they need to know how to use each method, and if I say "use the elimination method" or "use the substitution method", they better know which way I mean. I'll give about 20% of the credit for a correct answer, 20% for checking the answer, and they'll lose 60% for using the wrong method. I also attempt to convey to them the reason that they need to use both methods (using two examples similar to what I have above.) I point out that the first of those two examples is something we'll be doing about a month later, and the second example is just a slightly more advanced version of the elimination method, but we won't touch it until pre-calculus (unless anyone wants to learn it during their lunch period.)

Of course, on a test with about 8 system of equations questions, I only dictate which way to solve the system of equations for one each of the two methods. 2 of the systems require a slight rearrangement to use either method (either line everything up, else divide by 2 or 3 to get an x= or a y=) And, of course, the other four problems are word problems.

edit: for what it's worth, my test on this topic is Wednesday this week. I have only 1 student who isn't capable of at least a 90 on this exam. He hasn't done a bit of the homework in 2 weeks. Refuses to pay attention, refuses to take notes, refuses to copy down examples, refuses to open his book, and refuses to come in for extra help during *my* lunchtime when I make myself available to anyone who needs even the slightest bit of extra help. I refuse to give him a high grade if he somehow gets the answers but can't show the work.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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Also, when presented with a system of equations that have factors that differ by 1 as in (see parentheses)
(4)x-5y = 18
(3)x-2y = 10
It can be a short cut to determining x in terms of y or vice versa as in
4x-5y = 18
-3x-2y = 10
_________
x-3y = 8 or x = 3y+8 and then substituting 3y + 8 for x in either equation.