judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
i'm sure it's been said, but communicators like in the ST:TNG, the wearable ones. we already have the flip open ones. think your bluetooth receiver without having to haul around your phone.
In the far furture I believe this will be possible. I'm not saying that if you take a child ad copy its brain, and then give them the exactsame life experiences they will be the same, but they will be close enough. Hell, we may, in our infinite wisdom, improve upon the brain rather then trying to copy it.
Easy, we just clear the surface of the equator. If it falls, who cares?
OK, true, and logically we would do away with the sex drive, along with hunger and thirst. Personally I'd like orgasm's to stay around
My point is instant orgasm's are self defeating. A large part of an orgasm is the releaf of sexual tension. If you just press a button, theres no build up, nothing to release.Personally I don't see the difference. If the virtual world is as real [or more real] than the real world, whats the point? If you can see, touch, hear, smell, taste the person/house/sofa/food as if they are infront of you, then why ever leave? No more fighting for space in the the middle of the city so you acn be close to resteraunts/wprk/friends/transport. You can live in your virtual home and just jump to whereever you need to go. We could even improve our senses. See more wavelengths of light, hear more wavelenths of sound, feel atomic structues, taste gravity.
Hell, why even bother with houses? Why bother with gravity and 3 dimensional space? If we arn't tied to a body and senses designed to find food, why let the ideas limit us.
The only need for bodies outside of VR would be to maintain machinery and science experiments. You could program everything you know before doing an experiment [position, direction and energy of each individual particle, ect] but you obviously can't program the things we don;t yet know about [crazy crazy string theory].
Or genetically engineer simplified human women to birth a couples eggs and sperm. Or just build/grow a new brain. Sex means evolution. If we put ourselves above evolution [which we pretty much already have, we change the world to fit us, rather than change to fit the world like all other life] then why create life through sex? ANyway immortality = limited population. Especially if we don't live virtually. Allthough saying that a body wouldn't have trouble in space.
Hmm, as a back up maybe. But it would be so much less efficient, so much more vague and inprecise then comunicating with thought alone. I'm thinking messages within a VR enviroment, but if were taling robots it could be bluetooth
The big things to consider, apart from how much faster we will move forward, and how much better life will be, is exploration. The big problem with soace exploration is astronauts die, and need things like food, water and compnay. Also wouldn't have to worry about organs getting squished due to acceleration. With appropriate safe guards [go read "mostly harmless"] theres no reason we couldn't send scientists off in a direction, and tell them to turn around after x hundred years. Or even send scientists out on "life long" missions, with the intention to send messages back about interesting discoveries, or to advertise the earth to other species [I believe the universe is big enough that there is, was and will be life in different forms. Note I said universe, not solarsystem
]Hey, why not just make a borg sphere and leave the Eath all together?
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
- Feb 14, 2004
- 52,168
- 7,533
- 136
I think the new MacBook Air is a step in the right direction - super lightweight and thin, great screen and keyboard, pretty much all wireless...all we need is 4G built-in and Google Storage, then you can go anywhere with your tiny little laptop and access the Internet, Email, Documents, etc. The Asus EEE PC laptop is a great idea in this regard as well.
I'd like to see the Microsoft Surface make its way into homes...it could be a valuable aid for family planning - schedules, meals, digital scrapbooking, vacation planning, and so on. A central hub for the family to do planning-type stuff on.
I would like to see more integration in general...I want a home server that syncs multimedia to my portable music player, to speakers and TVs all throughout my house, to a disk drive in my car - without any effort on my end. I want to see my calendar on my phone, on my computer, and logged into the Internet without having to do any voodoo to make it work.
I also want to see more usable human interfaces - the iPhone is a great example of that. I can quickly find any phone number or email I need with a few flicks of my finger, no complex menu systems or difficult software to deal with.
I would also like to see more RFID systems in place. I'm not concerned about "Big Brother" at all, I just want to be able to track items like clothing, food, etc. Imagine having RFID chips stitched into your clothing, RFID labels on your food, tags that you can put on everything...you'd never lose anything again! You could ask your house computer where you favorite jacket or your keys are. You could have a sensor at the door that would tell you if you forgot your wallet. You could have a digital food inventory system that would help you generate a shopping list quickly. The less information we have to keep in our brains, the better - we're better at thinking than remembering stuff (where did I put the ___?).
I'd like to see the Microsoft Surface make its way into homes...it could be a valuable aid for family planning - schedules, meals, digital scrapbooking, vacation planning, and so on. A central hub for the family to do planning-type stuff on.
I would like to see more integration in general...I want a home server that syncs multimedia to my portable music player, to speakers and TVs all throughout my house, to a disk drive in my car - without any effort on my end. I want to see my calendar on my phone, on my computer, and logged into the Internet without having to do any voodoo to make it work.
I also want to see more usable human interfaces - the iPhone is a great example of that. I can quickly find any phone number or email I need with a few flicks of my finger, no complex menu systems or difficult software to deal with.
I would also like to see more RFID systems in place. I'm not concerned about "Big Brother" at all, I just want to be able to track items like clothing, food, etc. Imagine having RFID chips stitched into your clothing, RFID labels on your food, tags that you can put on everything...you'd never lose anything again! You could ask your house computer where you favorite jacket or your keys are. You could have a sensor at the door that would tell you if you forgot your wallet. You could have a digital food inventory system that would help you generate a shopping list quickly. The less information we have to keep in our brains, the better - we're better at thinking than remembering stuff (where did I put the ___?).
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
Something I would like to see is the smart house.
One that worked so good that you could say things like this:
House - history channel
House - check email
House - lights on kitchen
House - whats the weather today ?
or it could automate things like:
Phone rings, house announces who is calling.
Someone knocks at front door, it switches the picture on the tv to a camera of the front door.
If you ever have seen the show Eureka on scifi, the house he has on there would be great.
Thing is its completely doable with current technology.
Just need someone to pull it all together.
One that worked so good that you could say things like this:
House - history channel
House - check email
House - lights on kitchen
House - whats the weather today ?
or it could automate things like:
Phone rings, house announces who is calling.
Someone knocks at front door, it switches the picture on the tv to a camera of the front door.
If you ever have seen the show Eureka on scifi, the house he has on there would be great.
Thing is its completely doable with current technology.
Just need someone to pull it all together.
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
- Feb 14, 2004
- 52,168
- 7,533
- 136
Already been done...tons of companies that make stuff like that. Vantage Controls, Crestron, even open-source stuff like MisterHouse:
http://misterhouse.sourceforge.net/
Anubis
No Lifer
See i dissagree, id rather a laptop weigh a few lbs more and not be IMO useless
I also dissagree here, we need more phones that are just phones, why arnt there any simple phones that dont suck,
Kaido
Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
- Feb 14, 2004
- 52,168
- 7,533
- 136
Well, keep in mind that you're a Geek - for 99.99% of the world, the Air is the perfect laptop. Coupled with the Time Capsule router/backup device, it fits most people's needs perfectly. It does Email, Internet, and Word, plus it's lightweight, has great battery life, a wonderful screen, and nice features like the magnetic power connector and a light-up keyboard. It ticks me off that there's no Firewire or ExpressCard port so I can't hook up my camcorder or slide in a 3G card, but that's not who the laptop is designed for.
Have you had a chance to get some hands-on time and play with an iPhone yet? I suspect you're only saying a phone should be a phone because you're used to the crappy phones that try to cram a thousand features into a virtually unusable user interface system. My iPhone makes a great little phone, as well as a multi-function device for use as an iPod, to jot down quick, short notes, to check my email, to check websites quickly, as an RSS reader when I'm bored, etc. The interface is simple and totally straightforward. Little kids have no problems flipping through pictures or playing with the camera, that's how easy it is to use!
Anubis
No Lifer
yes ive had hands on time with the iphone and the other thinks like that LG voyager, thing is i have absoutly ZERO use for any of that, i use my phone for maybe 30 minutes every month, i dont want or need a camera, email, weather, video, what ever else the fuck they put in them, all i need or want a phone to do id make and receive calls and txts and do that clearly without dropping calls and such, sure you can get a basic phone now, however they have the build quality of a yugo, and drop calls every 2 min
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
But with an artificial mind, everything could be programmed in, and simulated. Want to experience sexual tension? Load the program, and it'll start to build. It could be Matrix-like, where every sensation you want to experience can be accurately duplicated.Originally posted by: QUOTH
OK, true, and logically we would do away with the sex drive, along with hunger and thirst. Personally I'd like orgasm's to stay around
But if we're all in a virtual world, who's maintaining the equipment that's running that world? Who's looking for dangerous asteroids? Who's making sure that rats aren't chewing through important cables? Who's upgrading the systems? If the entire simulator breaks down, the virtual world vanishes. Virtual is dependent upon the real.
It'll ultimately depend upon the goals of those controlling the simulation. If we want to influence the environment around us, and interact with it in some way, genuine work will need to be done on a regular basis in the real world. The virtual world is kind of like video games - mental masturbation. You exert energy, get enjoyment out of it, but don't really accomplish anything.
Sex means evolution - by nature. And it's a fairly effective means, at least right now. The mixing of DNA is able to remove some abnormalities which may arise. If our genetic technology improves to where we can code DNA like one codes C++ today, then sex could be little more than a way of efficiently compiling that code into another organism.
With artificial vocalizers, you could communicate like a modem, or do so even faster. There's nothing saying that it'd have to be human vocal cords doing the work.Hmm, as a back up maybe. But it would be so much less efficient, so much more vague and inprecise then comunicating with thought alone. I'm thinking messages within a VR enviroment, but if were taling robots it could be bluetooth
You're still thinking too much in terms of modern day humans. They're little more than a starting point, a launching platform - not even a foundation, really. More like an example, upon which plans may be very loosely based. "Here's what nature came up with after 3 billion years to suit the basic goal of survival. Let's see what needs improvement to suit what we want."
An android body would certainly make space travel easier. I think the Mars Exploration Rovers endured G-forces which would be fatal to a person - try taking a ride in that airbag lander they used. Your bruised corpse will roll out casually onto the surface of another planet, a tenderized monument to your journey. And, there'd be no real sense of "monotony" on the trip. Switch off, then switch on 200 years later - it'd seem to you like no time had passed at all.The big things to consider, apart from how much faster we will move forward, and how much better life will be, is exploration. The big problem with soace exploration is astronauts die, and need things like food, water and compnay. Also wouldn't have to worry about organs getting squished due to acceleration. With appropriate safe guards [go read "mostly harmless"] theres no reason we couldn't send scientists off in a direction, and tell them to turn around after x hundred years. Or even send scientists out on "life long" missions, with the intention to send messages back about interesting discoveries, or to advertise the earth to other species [I believe the universe is big enough that there is, was and will be life in different forms. Note I said universe, not solarsystem
Damn, you got me there. **Sexual Frustation at 20% and Rising...**
See line below for maintenance robots.
I'm abit lost with this statement. So we get to the stage of robot bodies/VR. What needs to be done, apart from maintenance and practical science experiments? Ok, watching for asteroids, mining metal ores and watching the power generators spin. If we were to put humanity into VR, we wouldn't need to do anything in the real world, we wouldn't really need to accomplish anything. No building of homes, no cleaning of streets, no growing food, so working in retail. Even if we choose the cyborg route then all the work will be given to AI robots, which wil be watched over by humans if there job is important.
The main point of all this is the advancement of science and the benifit of human existence. No more work or toil, no more pain or sickness, no more hunger or coldness, no more inequality. Everyone works for the good of the human race, and as noone is selfish or lazy everyone helps.
We go against evolution, we have put ourselves above it. Your cold, what do you do? animals walk into the sun, and in the long run grow longer hair. We put on clothes of a long haired animals, then invent central heating.
When was the last time you looked at a member of the oposite sex and thought "OMG, your SO intelligent, I want to take you into the back seat of my car....". Or meet a person in a bar "Hi, do you have any family history of cancer or heart disease? How about mental ilness? Alcoholism?".
We laugh in the face of evolution and survival of the fittest. The sick and weak live, the inteligent are passed over for the pretty, those with genetic abnormalities pass them to the next generation, we lie about our genetics in the form of plastic surgery, contact lenses, makeup and perfume. This means genetic abnormalities/weakness's don't get removed, they live on.
Quite the oposite, I think we are misunderstanding each other. You have an idea, you then form it into words [or mathematics, or a picture] which you can then comunicate via your voice, writing or drawing. These are limited by your skill with these tools, and the effectiveness as they were designed to teach each other how to hunt. What if the word you need doesn't exist? What if the math hasn't been invented yet, you have to spend the next 20years preaching to the comunity. What if the picture isn't a picture, but a moving 3 [or 4] dimensional model? Rather than simplifying a person's ideas with words I'm talking about communicating the pure uncrompressed thoughts.
Think how much simpler this conversation would be, if i could show you my thoughts.
It's ignorent to believe our senses and ways of comunication are good enough. We can't even decide upon or describe an atom.
BTW, gotta say I'm enjoying this debate
On the subject of smart homes I wand to see a system that tracks you as you move through your home. Lights turn on infront of you, off behind you. If your listening to music/watching the news or a sporting event, entertainment systems shut off in the room you leave and power up in the room you walk into seamlessly. Same goes for your car.
I think an eventual goal would be no contact. Don't touch doorhandles, buttons, hand rails, people. Less contact means less disease. Did you know UV can be used to steralise objects?
I think an eventual goal would be no contact. Don't touch doorhandles, buttons, hand rails, people. Less contact means less disease. Did you know UV can be used to steralise objects?
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
What I mean is, what do the people in or controlling the simulation really want? Do they want a simple, happy life, in their simulated bubble of heaven? If so, fine, stay in the VR world with maintenance robots on the outside.
Or do they want to reach out into the galaxy, and explore the Universe around us? Sure, you can simulate a whole Universe if you wanted to, but it still wouldn't really be the Universe and the way it works. It's a philosophical question - do we really want or need to know how things work, or are we (or even can we be) content living in a simulation that can't know what the real world is actually like?
I know that lack of intelligence would certainly be a big deal breaker for me.
"OMG you're so intelligent, I want to take you to the back seat of my car where I can better demonstrate some of my thoughts on the functioning of black holes. Oh wait, that didn't come out right...."
Some genetic abnormalities do still get removed, but just not as efficiently as before. DNA has natural error checking and correction built in, but it only goes so far. It's not a digital system, and non-digital systems are inherently error prone, because you don't know what the original signal (or gene) actually looked like. With digital things, you can have a checksum that'll tell you for certain when something's gone wrong. But if it's analog, there's no way to tell for absolute certain.
DNA replication does what it can though, partly through combining DNA from two organisms. The botched sections are generally left out. But if you get two copies that have the same problem, there's not going to be any error correction going on, because both copies are the same - who's to say that either one is "wrong?" And how would the DNA "know" what the pre-error gene looked like?
Except that thought is influenced by language. This worked its way into the book "1984." If you haven't read it, there, they tried to use language that excluded terms to describe any sort of treachery or wrongdoing. Without words like that, it's difficult to think of such things. If you have no word available with which to express an idea of "bad," then that thought may very easily perish, like a dream. Words are sort of like little organizers, square shelves on a wall, into which we can quantify thoughts. This in turn allows us to retain the memories better.
I think that some sort of language would still be needed, but it would have a far different form than anything we know now. Language in this sense would still be what it is today - a way of organizing thoughts in a standard way that anyone privy to that language can comprehend. For example, children are "calibrated" when they're young - they know what red, green, blue, and various other colors look like. But it's possible that if you'd take those eyes, and connect them to another brain, those colors would look quite different. It's the calibration that makes it possible for everyone to point at a color swatch and say, "That is red."
Raw thoughts from one person might not be compatible with those of another. They'd need some sort of organizational system, or language, to standardize them, so that others could easily comprehend the information.
Things like the textual glyphs that we all know and love may either disappear, or, they would no longer be written on paper or placed on screens, but they'd be mental imagery, likely with tens of thousands of symbols, all with the intent of categorizing and standardizing thoughts so that anyone could go up to anyone else, beam over thoughts, and have them still make perfect sense, instead of just being a muddling of raw brain energy.
That could get a bit creepy. It'd just take a few times of it malfunctioning and turning on (or off) random lights to get people a bit paranoid.
Want some nice UV? Germicidal ultraviolet tubes - fluorescent tubes without the phosphor coating. Not the ~400nm UV LEDs you'll find on eBay. Try 254nm wavelength. Ultraviolet. Good stuff.
Want to go blind and die of skin cancer? Outfit your home with some of those tubes.
VR will be used for theoretical science and socialisation/comfort. Real world robot bodies will be used for practical science experiments and exploration. Basically anything that you can't recreate as close to perfection as possible[/can't make better].
I concur, but the sad truth is when you look around the room you see the persons curves and face, maybe clothes and hair. The beautiful are rewarded and praised above the intelligent and devoted. Movie stars are treated better than teachers.
True. Nowehere near as efficently as before. The one that is wrong is suppost to die/not mate. OK, when we fully understand our DNA we can pick and choose, remove all the flaws. But if we can do this why bother with input from the parents at all? Why not just pick attributes out of a catalogue? Anyway my main issue is population. With humans that live forever, no new people will be needed. The obvious answer to this is populating other planets/space. But VR is so much easier.
"2+2=5"
"What does 2+2= ?"
Ive gotta say I truly love that book. It'a amazing to think the author was born 100 years ago.
Yes, if there is no word for love, and you never get taught/learn what it means then there is no such thing. Thinking about it creates it. The difference between newspeak and conversation through thought is newspeak limits the number or words, comunicationg through thoughts has the equivelant of unlimited words. Is the word "Good" to weak? "Great" to strong? Instead of simplifying your thoughts into words comunicate them purely.
A picture is worth a thousand words. A thought is worth a thousand pictures.
The other big difference is in 1984 there was no social interaction at all. The old words wern't being used and there were no opportunities to need them/remember them. Noone to teach people what they ment.
I'm working under the assumption that everyone thinks the same way on a basic level. The same way your mental picture of a sphere is the same as mine. Maybe larger with a different texture and a different colour dependant on your life experience and mood, but the same. I'm hypothetising that the same goes for emotions and creative thoughs. I'm assuming red feels the same way to me as it does to you. That if we wern't limited by words we could define the colour the way our minds comprehend it. [People have cornea transplants, and see no difference in colours].
See above. If eveyone is taught in a similar way then people's mental process's will be similar. Shure people will be different, but it would be like talking to different people now. The way there mind works will shape the structure of their thoughts, just as much as personality. Therefore you will get to know people better as there thought process's would be more clear.
But yeah, if for some reason this wouldn't work then just hugely increase the vocabulary, install a bigger memory drive with all the words saved. I still think comunicating without predertmined limiting sets would be a huge advantage.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Half the population is in a VR world, progressing within a simulation, and half the population is out manipulating and progressing in the real world. If one of our values is unity of the species, then this isn't an option. If we don't mind diverging into two separate sets, then there would be no problem with it.
That'll probably be the case until we have some unified way of assessing intelligence before investing much time in the whole "getting to know you" process. You might find someone to be quite smart after 3 months together, but then they go and donate your entire bank account to Scientology.
When we fully understand our DNA, then there really wouldn't be any need for mating. Once it can be programmed like C++, then the main issue would just be one of where to raise the fetus. But by the time we've got the technological capability to gain full read/write access to DNA, I don't think that the latter issue would be too much of a problem.
Thought could be like binary data signals. Binary data is pretty basic - the signal is either on, or it's off. But it needs some structure to it to be useful. I can send TCP/IP packets, in binary, to a CD's laser input, but you're not going to get Windows Updates, nor will you get music. Wrong language. Human thought, maybe it's all similar in what is thought of, but the "terminology" that the brain itself uses might be different, like NTFS vs FAT32 file systems.
Cornea transplants, fine - that's just a transparent layer on the front of the eye. Get back to me on what happens with retina transplants, once they're possible.
But what if the limiting set is comprised of 50x more "words" than we have right now? Imagine the Oxford Dictionary, 50x thicker. It'd be huge. Or even larger. You could have thousands of words to describe a table, or a blade of grass.
I guess someone, some day, will find out for sure, whether or not we all speak the same brain language. It certainly would be an interesting experience.
I was actually thinking live in VR, In your VR house with your VR wife. Only step into bodies when you need them.
Personally I can't see that happening till we cut out our genetic heritige. The only other way would be if all of society changes, all the sterotypes are destroyed and we teach the children differently. Ive got an image stuck in my head. The bureaucrat badges from futurama, but with IQ's displayed instead
Sounds right to me.
Hmm, well my idea isn't based on much, I could easily be talking nonsense. I personally like the idea that thoughts are transferable.
Cornea transplants, fine - that's just a transparent layer on the front of the eye. Get back to me on what happens with retina transplants, once they're possible.
The eye is something I'm hazy about. Physics was my subject, not bioligy. Why would one person's retina be any different for another? I know there is no way to test that that what I see as red looks the same to you, as we can't describe a colour.
That would be a good thing. Sentences would be shorter and tehrefor faster, and as we have artificial brains we just "teach" everyone the full dictionary which they never forget or misuse.
I'm curious what will come first. AI robots or simplified human slaves. The first is a huge job and potentially very dangerous, so I'd guess the clones would be more likely, assuming we get over the potential ethical issues.
Thinking about the robots, if moore's law holds up it shouldn't be that long till we have the hardware, but the software will be verry difficult. Maybe understanding the brain is the discovery we need to recreate it, even if it's a simplified version for mopping floors and mining metal ores.
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