Your experience with Vista Beta 2

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stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
Killing services is not a dumb idea, especially the ones that are taking up resources and are not needed. Whatever gave you this idea that this is dumb?
Because the majority of people do not know better than the Windows Product Group on what is needed. Because of the countless threads here from people who are having a problem because they disabled a bunch of stuff they knew nothing about. Because of the hundreds of calls I took in PSS from administrators who thought they knew better than Microsoft about services and ended up costing their companies a lot of money.

Someone that has experience and knows what they are doing shutting down quite a few services can gain anywhere from a 5%-10% increase in performance, sometimes even more depending on your needs.
That is pure, unadulterated nonsense. To see a 5-10% increase in perf (and I don't even know what that means, it's really vague), you would probably need to disable every service on the box, which would make the computer useless.

And besides getting a performance gain, the least amount of services running the greater the stability and system performance will be. Less lockups, system crashes, BSOD, etc...
This is nonsense. If you are having lockups and BSODs, disabling services is not your fix.

The more one runs on a box the greater chances in decreased stability, this is a given.
Uh, no it isn't. At all.

 

stash

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2000
5,468
0
0
In the control panel it shows my account as a Admin, so I'd figure just like XP, everytime I'm logged in, I'm logged in as Admin
In Vista, by default, a user in the administrators group (except THE administrator, which is disabled by default) has a split token. Most of the time, it operates as a normal user. When you try to do something that requires administrative access to the system, you are prompted with the consent dialog (no password). Then your account uses an admin token with full rights.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Woot! Fixed IE. It would not load properly whatsoever, kept hanging and wouldn't respond. In Internet Options, in the advance tab, there's an option to reset IE. And it completely resets everything. I'm betting there's a copy of IE somewhere in a cab file that it used to reinstall it. I remember reading that Vista pretty much had a copy of all crucial components somewhere... that could be one of the reason why it's such a large install.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
A 3rd burn attempt just failed too.

How long did Vista stay on the progress bar shortly after the initial file transfer right after booting from the DVD? It seems to hang at that point for me.
 

Underclocked

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,042
1
76
As of this afternoon, I know longer have VISTA on my pc. :) Had already decided it was a bit too much of a beta for me....so I proceeded to go over the edge a bit. Got my Canon scanner to work even though there are no Vista drivers available for it. Got away with that one. Then I went a little wacky installing software, most of which seemed to install "okay" and even work, but the OS didn't acknowledge their presence. Ended my torture test by locking up on, of all things, changing the screensaver.

Returned the system to its pre-Vista state, downloaded Ubuntu and played with the live cd a bit. Those folks are getting there!

Oftentimes you can combine a large number of singly good ideas and wind up with a chaotic mess, right now Vista is very much that IMHO. They've got a very long ways to go before it's a viable operating system and they'll surely do better without my input. ;)

The boring simplicity of previous versions of solitaire on windows has even been trashed with glitz and bs. Vista solitaire should be named pimp solitaire er sumpin'. :D
 

AlabamaCajun

Member
Mar 11, 2005
126
0
0
I had Beta 1 loaded on an Athlon 3700 running at 2.6G and an ATI850XT. It was pretty responsive then except for a few things. I guess from the sound of things this Beta will take one helava machine to run it. When my MSDN arrives, I'll prime up a dual opteron 170 with a EVGA 7600GS to see what Beta 2 does.
 

nightsz

Junior Member
Feb 2, 2006
7
0
0
Dude, I have a FX-60, X1900xt, 2GB of mem and I still only got a 3 rating! Though I got a really low score for my hard drive since it's a 74 gb raptor. Anyhow, I think vista is kinda cool after figuring out how to use the new features (by spending some time in the help menu); especially for a beta version of the software.
 

Cardio

Senior member
Jun 11, 2003
903
0
76
I have an FX57 OC'ed, 7900gtx, 2 500GB SATA HDs with 4GB Ram @ 2.2.2.5 and only get a performance rating of 3. The individual ratings are higher for each component. Is 3 the top score? Anyone get anything higher?

Kinda of strange, last night everything was seemingly pretty normal when shutdown. This AM it had lost all passwords and even the home page in IE. The side bar is now gone and can't be found! The HD was also running for hours but did not show any applications or processes running. It had been left idle yesterday for many hours and had finished its "what ever Windows does after an install", which now seems to include loosing any settings that may have been made. It also seems pretty fast if the system is completely idle, but if it is doing ANYTHING it is super slow to even open a window or accept a mouse click.

If you combine the Vista beta with the Office 2007 beta you will not need any other hobby.
 

IceBreakerG

Member
Apr 22, 2005
121
0
0
The performance rating on my Inspiron 9300 is a 3 as well. The way it works is your overall system score will only be as high as the lowest score on the list. So if you have a GPU rating of 3 and everything else is 3.5 or 4 then your overall score will be a 3. I have a GeForce Go 6800 in my laptop and its rated at 3.6. I think as the nVidia/ATI drivers mature, performance will increase. Vista runs pretty good on my laptop but I can't do certain things smoothly (like play a video). I think its because I only have 512MB of memory. I'll probably order some more this week or something since Thursday is payday lol.

Take a look at this screenshot to see what I mean:

http://www.nfynite.com/Vista/PerformanceRating.jpg

Here's a couple of my other screen shots as well:

http://www.nfynite.com/Vista/
 

nightsz

Junior Member
Feb 2, 2006
7
0
0
Originally posted by: Cardio
I have an FX57 OC'ed, 7900gtx, 2 500GB SATA HDs with 4GB Ram @ 2.2.2.5 and only get a performance rating of 3. The individual ratings are higher for each component. Is 3 the top score? Anyone get anything higher?

Kinda of strange, last night everything was seemingly pretty normal when shutdown. This AM it had lost all passwords and even the home page in IE. The side bar is now gone and can't be found! The HD was also running for hours but did not show any applications or processes running. It had been left idle yesterday for many hours and had finished its "what ever Windows does after an install", which now seems to include loosing any settings that may have been made. It also seems pretty fast if the system is completely idle, but if it is doing ANYTHING it is super slow to even open a window or accept a mouse click.

If you combine the Vista beta with the Office 2007 beta you will not need any other hobby.

My FX-60 is OC'd too and only got a rating of 5.6 out of 6 I believe. After reading about the rating system, I assume that 4 is the highest. Still, I havent had any problems with the 64 bit version, and besides Windows Explorer (which I don't like), everything is fine. As for Office 07 beta, now that is revolutionary.

As for the GPU rating ICeBreakerG, my X1900 scored a 5.9.

 
Mar 6, 2006
109
0
0
Originally posted by: Looney
Woot! Fixed IE. It would not load properly whatsoever, kept hanging and wouldn't respond. In Internet Options, in the advance tab, there's an option to reset IE. And it completely resets everything. I'm betting there's a copy of IE somewhere in a cab file that it used to reinstall it. I remember reading that Vista pretty much had a copy of all crucial components somewhere... that could be one of the reason why it's such a large install.

Thanks for that, I'm having IE problems as well, will have to give it a go.
 

Randum

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2004
2,473
0
76
SO far I must say, i played with file sharing, exploring, using IE, and I just installed everything I would normally use on my XP box, and vista is handeling it pretty well. No issues, I do like the new browsing feature when you are looking at your drives (the top with the arrows etc). Of course the aero feature looks nice too, and when I use remote desktop it works well, no issues yet. AS far as performance, I have no real issues, and would say it compares pretty well with XP as far as speed of use. Boot times are still a little bit though.

Overall I say its pretty cool to see windows have a complete overhaul, and I have yet to have it crash as well...which is good news!
 

Chocolate Pi

Senior member
Jan 11, 2005
245
0
0
Alright, time to finally put down my Vista impressions; this is as good a place as any.

First lets talk about the eye candy. I'm not quite sure why people are so hostile about it... (Many were mad with XP too...) Sure, it doesn't make anything better, but it doesn't make it worse; it's like better graphics in a game. I won't play a bad game just because it has good graphics or ignore a good one because it does not, but if a good game has good graphics, I reckon I'll take it. The transparency is surprisingly useful when working with many small windows like MSN. More of a psycological thing, I can have a little bit more of a window covered up and still see what it is. The previews on the taskbar are genuinely useful; while the first does have a delay, after that every single window comes up instantly for you to scroll though. The new Alt-Tab ("Flip") is nice but it has a delay that is a tad annoying.

Contrary to the opinions of some others, Flip 3D is genuinely useful, at least to me. It has even changed the way I work on Windows, I keep a ton more stuff open now, easily grabbing something I need later. It could use AA though, it is considerably jaggy. Display drivers, are you listening?

Ah, drivers. The main problem with Vista as it is now. Display drivers are impressively developed but have a ways yet to go. I'm waiting on better chipset drivers, though there are some. The same cannot be said of a certain sound card titan... At any rate I eagerly await better drivers that will round out Vista.

Other than drivers, Vista has two problems. It is clearly bloated with debug code, taking up RAM and CPU cycles at awkward times, and UAC... yeeeeaaaaah... The code will obviously get better, and Microosft will simply have to make UAC more intelligent or no one will use Vista, simple as that.

However, Vista will be my primary operating system from now on because it is actually more stable than XP! Although my limited experience with a fresh install may not be the most scientific analysis out there, the fact is that I simply have had less or more minor problems with Vista thus far than XP. For example, once in Vista, when I stupidly tried to change my background while display drivers were installing, explorer crashed. Explorer crashed and... nothing happened. The background box clsoed, yes, but everything else ran without skipping a beat, even the display driver installation. Also, my games are much more stable. I can alt-tab out of Oblivion left and right; on XP that crashs it about one in three times. Battlefield 2 has not crashed once, an amazing change for that buggy mess. My only gripe is that my Steam games will not start, but I get the impression it is an issue with Steam on the x64 code and that it will be fixed by a platform update. (The same thing happened with XP64 unless I am mistaken...) Others have reported no issues on x86 Vista, so it fits.

Speaking of games, I like the new file organization. Besides Windows and Program Files, you have Users, replacing the vile "Documents and Settings". Under your user folder is a wonderful organization of folders, "Pictures", "Videos", "Music", "Documents", "Desktop", "Saved Games", and the like. The Start Menu I am really beginning to warm up to, seeing it as what XP's should have been. You have Frequent programs, Internet and Email, and a simple selection on the right to your User folder, Documents, Pictures, Music, and Games. The Control Panel seems well laid out, again, an expansion upon what XP tried to do with marginal success. I like the idea of a benchmark tool built in, but it seems awkward; system requirements are not about gobs of HDD space or RAM bandwidth... I like the native Windows Update that isn't in IE.

Windows Defender seems nice. However, DO NOT INSTALL TREND MICRO'S PC-CILLIN ON VISTA x64! It doesn't work, and I can't uninstall it. Arg... Media Player 11 seems nice, but I don't like that it wanted me to load up some MTV store thing. Sidebar seems like a total waste, it accomplishes nothing but to make we wish I had Google Desktop again.

I feel obligated to address with detail with main function of the operating system. Indeed, it seems special attention and detail was invested in the Window's version of Solitaire. The background options are nicely done, especially the default green's texture, but I'm not quite as sure about the selection of deck looks. The "normal" deck has been given rather odd looking face cards, and the best deck is the "seasons" deck which I would say is only average looking. Nice however is the animation and "thump" when laying out three more cards. The sound for putting cards "up" is nice too, especially the effect when many go up at once. Worth mentioning the most, of course, is the difficulty. Every deal was difficult yet possible, a clear and deliberate change. The AI for knowing when you have no moves left is good but not perfect. The only real downfall was that the cards did not bounce after jumping out when you win! They shattered like glass, and here I was expecting some grade-A Vista-powered card-bouncing physics. *sigh* I would give Vista solitaire an 8.6 out of 10.0.

And just to cover my bases, that last paragraph was humor. I think.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
5
0
Do you mean Creative Labs? If so, don't hold your breath. With XP, they finally got beta drivers out a few weeks before XP release, and they were HORRIBLE. It wasn't until several months after retail release that they released 'proper' drivers. That's 98% as to why i stopped buying anything from Creative... unfortunately, i was given a X-Fi soundcard at xmas (which i have still not opened! I'm using the turtle beach until that sucker dies).
 

clickynext

Platinum Member
Dec 24, 2004
2,583
0
0
Originally posted by: Bateluer
A 3rd burn attempt just failed too.

How long did Vista stay on the progress bar shortly after the initial file transfer right after booting from the DVD? It seems to hang at that point for me.

It kept hanging at different times for me as well. But it worked for me just to load the image with Daemon Tools in XP, and installing by running the disc in XP. After the first part where it loads the files, I don't think it needs the disc anymore.
 

BehindEnemyLines

Senior member
Jul 24, 2000
979
0
76
I think the new Windows Explorer is terrible. MS removed one feature that was most useful: the Folder (tree-like directory) browsing. I could easily navigate between different folders almost instantly in XP rather than spending many seconds wondering how to get from folder A to B. They should really add the tree-directory back otherwise t's so fraustrating. Everything else seems fine except for that genius who got rid of the tree-directory view.
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
I'm satsfied with it............no problems at all with Vista. I've been in/on it completely since installing it and have come across no problems installing games, etc. and no crashes or other difficulties.:D

The one thing I'm still working on is installing Ubuntu alongside...........BCD does not like to play well with Grub and vice-versa...........:(
 

DasFox

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2003
4,668
46
91
Originally posted by: BehindEnemyLines
I think the new Windows Explorer is terrible. MS removed one feature that was most useful: the Folder (tree-like directory) browsing. I could easily navigate between different folders almost instantly in XP rather than spending many seconds wondering how to get from folder A to B. They should really add the tree-directory back otherwise t's so fraustrating. Everything else seems fine except for that genius who got rid of the tree-directory view.

Not sure what you mean, I see the "Tree" pefectly:

http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen7bz.jpg

 

DasFox

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2003
4,668
46
91
I didn't mean to imply services caused lockups, crahses, or BSODs, but by having them running when they are not needed, and pulling the system down, then with what is typical with a lot of users having many different types of applications running at start up. What I was trying to say was, because of all the decrease in system resources with the combined services, and apps running, "Causes Issues", the combination of these two.

There are many Windows users who's systems are only running at 65%-75% at startup, and then wonder why the box is sluggish, and things don't run proper.

Then over time given this, plus not giving the box an occasional defrag, which many people neglect, more problems ensue.

You do not have to kill all the services, or even a half of them to get a performance gain. As I stated I gained 100MB at startup, and I only stopped about 5 of them. Going from 500MB down to 400MB is quite a gain, and I know over time I will find a way to bring Vista down to around 250MB, and the performances will be huge!

Now granted is this for everyone? NO, did I say it was? NO. I'm talking about some people that don't need to use everything, and want to try, and get the best performance out of Windows. This is the same thing as the person who drives a SUV, and a person who drives a sports car, we don't all drive the same things, and we certainly don't all use Windows in the same way either.

Performance in systems is real, and is needed and can be obtained! And just buying a extra stick in memory is not always the real answer.

Not all Windows users have the same needs, and for those that can take advantage of improved performance there is a HUGE amount of performance gains to be had from Windows, and YES killing unneeded services is one such step.

I have been looking at the issue of performance with Windows for 20 years, and helping customers with performance issues since that period of time. I know for a fact how to get performance, and stability gains in Windows, and regardless of how much memory you have, it still helps to only use what is needed.

You should know if you have used Windows for any length of time, the more things grabbing for memory space allocation, the greater chances of a conflict, hence the more that runs in the background the greater chances this problem becomes, and it does lend to greater instability.

Now granted XP has come along way from the days of 95/Win98 where these issues presented greater problems, but XP still can become more unstable, and less efficient when you run to many things in the background at startup, and of course it is all a given for the amount of memory you have and even still problems happen for those that even have high amounts of memory.

But for all the years I have worked in Windows, I still find the majority of users barely meet the requirements, and even when they do, they have so many things running in the background at startup, combined with all the services, their boxes are nothing but problems for them, until I come along, and clean them up, streamline them as I would call it.

No there are REAL advantages to performance gains in what I am saying here. I have done this for over 20 years, and can show people, and teach them how, and you WILL see the differences in improvement.

P.S. I have never seen a Windows box straight from any manufacturer run Windows as good as it could, and can. WHY, because all the BLOAT is running. Every box built from companies like Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.. Windows runs like CRAP on them.
 
Mar 7, 2006
116
0
0
After playing around with Vista this weekend it seems like Microsoft is trying to appease the Ipod generation of retards who care more about flashy eyecandy than functionality.

Vista is nothing more than a novelty if you read through all the hype and I can not see using it as a day to day OS. An occasional toy to boot into at best much like Linux.

I would not risk my reputation recommending Vista to any business organization, leave that for the Geek Squad morons.
 

Underclocked

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,042
1
76
"I feel obligated to address with detail with main function of the operating system. Indeed, it seems special attention and detail was invested in the Window's version of Solitaire. The background options are nicely done, especially the default green's texture, but I'm not quite as sure about the selection of deck looks. The "normal" deck has been given rather odd looking face cards, and the best deck is the "seasons" deck which I would say is only average looking. Nice however is the animation and "thump" when laying out three more cards. The sound for putting cards "up" is nice too, especially the effect when many go up at once. Worth mentioning the most, of course, is the difficulty. Every deal was difficult yet possible, a clear and deliberate change. The AI for knowing when you have no moves left is good but not perfect. The only real downfall was that the cards did not bounce after jumping out when you win! They shattered like glass, and here I was expecting some grade-A Vista-powered card-bouncing physics. *sigh* I would give Vista solitaire an 8.6 out of 10.0."

:laugh: Well, I liked that paragraph even if I don't agree! ;)
 

BehindEnemyLines

Senior member
Jul 24, 2000
979
0
76
Originally posted by: DasFox
Originally posted by: BehindEnemyLines
I think the new Windows Explorer is terrible. MS removed one feature that was most useful: the Folder (tree-like directory) browsing. I could easily navigate between different folders almost instantly in XP rather than spending many seconds wondering how to get from folder A to B. They should really add the tree-directory back otherwise t's so fraustrating. Everything else seems fine except for that genius who got rid of the tree-directory view.

Not sure what you mean, I see the "Tree" pefectly:

http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen7bz.jpg
I think what happens is that when you click on a folder besides the original and its sub-folders, like another drive, the previous folder is collapsed. In XP, the previous folders and its sub-folders remained opened like it was. Unless there's a way to disable the "auto" closing of the previous folders. For example, click on drive D:\ and see if the current C:\... tree collapses. The last version I used was build 5308. Maybe they fixed it in this latest build.???
 

DasFox

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2003
4,668
46
91
Originally posted by: Snoogums Boogums
After playing around with Vista this weekend it seems like Microsoft is trying to appease the Ipod generation of retards who care more about flashy eyecandy than functionality.

Vista is nothing more than a novelty if you read through all the hype and I can not see using it as a day to day OS. An occasional toy to boot into at best much like Linux.

I would not risk my reputation recommending Vista to any business organization, leave that for the Geek Squad morons.

I agree, this does seem like some glam toy here, but PLEASE let's not confuse this with your lack of Linux experience, that is very unfair to Linux.

Linux is a excellent Unix like system, and for experienced users it happens to be a very powerful desktop system, not to mention it's strengths as a server OS.

I've used Linux for 7 years, and it's far from being a toy.

Full blown distros like Ubuntu and Mandriva with most things installed, running the Kde desktop, far surpass the Windows install on XP, or Vista, not to mention the amount of software installed on these distros for the causual user to business.

BehindEnemyLines, nope works the same for me, my D: drive is empty, but I have two hdds on the box and I clicked on F: and G: and C: stayed open:

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen2pj.jpg

Vista's explorer's tree is working the same for me like in XP.

ALOHA
 

clickynext

Platinum Member
Dec 24, 2004
2,583
0
0
As a beta, it works quite well. Of course, they knew they had to make it work before releasing it a public beta. Obviously it has its problems, but so far going well. :)

Forgot, system is Pentium D 3.2 Ghz, AIW Radeon 9600 Pro, 2 GB DDR333, and Aero runs smooth with all options turned on.