You Wanted Price Caps California? You Got Em

[Urinal Mint]

<<

<< at least you guys have real beaches. Who needs power to surf? >>

You mean there are no Surfers in Galveston? Are thew beaches too polluted there? >>


Too many oil rigs blocking the good waves.

 

[charrison]

red,

There have been 14 permits to build power plants issued this year. 4 are currently under construction, several have been put on hold and the others are at various stages of planning. I would highly doubt all 14 permits turn in to power plants by then end of 2002.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< I would highly doubt all 14 permits turn in to power plants by then end of 2002. >>

You are correct, it was 2003.

 

[Helpless]

You have kids? I thought everyone in CA was gay

 

[Eug]

<< I own a 2000 Mustang and have a clean driving record. If I got a speeding ticket my insurance would jump from $1000 a year to $2000+. If I got in a wreck today and obtained 3 points my insurance would cost $3000 a year!

How can they expect a common middle class person to pay those huge rates? >>

??? US$1000 a year isn't a huge amount of money for a middle class person. US$2000 isn't that much either in the greater scheme of things, especially considering the cost of the car. Anyways, isn't that the point? Charge the high risk people more, not everyone equally. And furthermore, the cost of that Mustang for you is far lower than in most places in the world. Consider yourself lucky. People elsewhere in the world understand that a 2000 Mustang is a luxury, not a necessity. You could just as easily get from A to B in a Toyota Echo and at the same time save yourself a shiznitload of dough in the price of the car, gas prices, insurance costs, and repair costs. And that much cheaper car would be better for the environment to boot.

BTW, I don't understand why people equate protecting the environment with electricity price caps. They have some overlapping issues, but are by no means directly related. I for one like many of California's policies to address the environmental problems we all face (some less so than others). Without them I probably wouldn't be driving my Prius today... and I'm in Canada.

 

[Cerebus451]

Okay, just to take the unpopular position of defending the power companies, does someone actually want to post the hard and fast numbers (in price per kWh) that the out-of-state electric companies have been &quot;gouging&quot; the state of California with? That's one thing I see conspicuously absent from all the articles I read. Spouting out about a billion dollar price gouge means nothing if you don't back it up with actual factual data. If they are charging 50 cents per kWh, then they are gouging. If they are charging 15-20 cents per kWh, they are not gouging, they are charging a reasonable market price. I don't know the hard and fast numbers, but until I can find definitive proof of the gouging, I can't condone bashing the electricity producers. No doubt the CEO of Enron does not ride to work every morning in a Yugo, but then again neither does any other CEO that we all readily buy products from to support the multi-Lear jet fleet to fly around in.

Also, you cannot blame the lack of power generation facilities entirely on the eco-nuts. While they make the cost of building a plant higher because of increased pollution regulations (which I wholeheartedly agree with), a bigger reason for the lack of new generation facilities has to be the NIMBY's (NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard). How many of you would be willing to run out and help them build that new power plant in your neighborhood? How about helping them erect the new high voltage line to get the electricity from the new power plant to where it's needed? The bigger problem than the eco-nuts is the people that flood the town hall meetings and absolutely will not allow the power companies to build the acid-rain producing power plant or the cancer causing high voltage lines anywhere near where they live, and yet also scream bloody murder when the electricity goes out because there is not enough to go around.

Of course, neither of these has to do with Price Caps, but then again the general flow of this thread has diverged throughout. Again, before I can weigh in on an issue about Price Caps, I want to know just how bad this &quot;gouging&quot; was in the first place.

 

[tm37]

<< Trust me Bubba, the the regulations have been relaxed dramatically. We are going to have to pay more for Energy, we just shouldn't be gouged by Profiteering Fat Cats with Pointy Toed Boots from Texas and Oklahoma. >>



Not so. While Davis has ordered many PART-TIME PLANTS to run non-stop yet he has not (nor can he) waive EPA fines.

The price was set BY THE PUC baised on a FLAWED bidding system. Under the system in place EVEN IF THERE IS A SURPLUS FOR THE DAY THE PRICE COULD STILL BE EXTREMELY HIGH!!


Now as for charging more when you are unsure if you will get paid this is common practice in ALL BUSSINESS. When they capped prices to the consumer (sending the providers in HUGE debt) The providers were no longer ABLE to pay the bill. If you stop paying your bills It will cost you more the next time you go buy something. Be it interest or what.

 

[MrCodeDude]

This all goes back on Davis' back, where it should be. The Democrats blame Pete Wilson for he started it, but they fail to see how during the 2 years Davis was in office he did DIDDLY-SQUAT! Davis had poor deregulation, price caps DURING the freakin summer. Davis brought down the state of CA, and more or likely he won't serve another term..
-- mrcodedude

 

[Red Dawn]

Helpless

<< You have kids? I thought everyone in CA was gay >>

Not Gay, happy as in happy we don't live in Virginia were idiots like you who waste bandwidth with incredibly lame ass posts live.



<< The price was set BY THE PUC baised on a FLAWED bidding system. >>

Wrong, based of false information given by the Price Gougers. BTW, how are the Misquetos up there in the land of a 1,000 lakes this Summer? I here the weather there is fantastic during the summer. Of course the winter is a different story.



<< . While Davis has ordered many PART-TIME PLANTS to run non-stop yet he has not (nor can he) waive EPA fines >>

I don't know about that but Ca and Enron came to an agreement stating that ENRON would sell us Energy at much lower prices if we relaxed some of the enviromental restrictions, which we did.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Where is Lex Luthor when you need him to nuke the San Adreas Faultline and make California sink into the ocean?

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Um, yeah, what is with all the CA bashing?

sniff sniff...what's that, jealousy? I say we wall off CA and see how you guys fair

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Um, yeah, what is with all the CA bashing? >>

Just small minded people with incredibly big mouths.

 

[glenn1]

<< Um, yeah, what is with all the CA bashing?

sniff sniff...what's that, jealousy? I say we wall off CA and see how you guys fare >>



Is that a promise? May we have that in writing?

 

[tm37]

<< << The price was set BY THE PUC baised on a FLAWED bidding system. >> >>





<< Wrong, based of false information given by the Price Gougers. BTW, how are the Misquetos up there in the land of a 1,000 lakes this Summer? I here the weather there is fantastic during the summer. Of course the winter is a different story. >>



Wrong AGAIN Red! This was bantered about LAST YEAR during the San Diego Mayoral RACE. The Exchange shows PROJECTED supply and demand. It then opens bidding, the highest bid wins and every one pays the highest bid price. The system is FLAWED! In theory if a small company bids high during a SURPLUS the price would be high for every one!

 

[LordMaul]

Why don't you all MOVE already!?

 

[Red Dawn]

<< The Exchange shows PROJECTED supply and demand >>

And the Price Gougers were giving the Cal ISO wrong supply figures based on their plants being unecessarily shut down just to create a shortage to drive up the prices.

This whole Deregulation here is a joke. If a State doesn't produce surplus Energy they should never go with deregulation.



<< I say we wall off CA and see how you guys fare >>Is that a promise? May we have that in writing? >>

Really, the last thing we need is more Ma and Pa Kettle's moving here from the Rube states because there is no work in their states for them. Let them move to Maryland or Chicago.

 

[etech]

I thought the problem was that CPCU or whatever board it is, only had contracts to cover so much of the electricity needs. When the need exceeded what was contracted for they had to buy their energy on the spot market. Due to a number of factors, high natural gas prices, cold winter, 40 year old generating plants in Calif., low rainfall in the northwest the spot market was very volatile. On top of that you have to throw in the possibility that some plants were shut down to drive the prices higher though that has not been proven yet.
The bidding scheme set in place for buying on the spot market is inconceivable to me. You have all the suppliers bid and then buy at the highest price. Only in Calif.

latimes.com
The state's utilities were forced to buy nearly all the power for their customers on the volatile spot market, where prices skyrocketed beginning in May. Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas &amp; Electric couldn't pass the full costs on to customers because of a freeze on rates paid by consumers.

eia.doe.gov
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) Orders 888 and 889 were put in place in 1996. These regulations allowed for the wholesale trading of electricity (between generators and customers regardless of where they are in the country) and helped California to implement competition at the retail level.
In 1996 (when California passed deregulation legislation), the average revenue per kilowatthour (a proxy for price) of electricity sold in California was 9.48 cents, the 10th highest among the 50 States and the District of Columbia. The U.S. average price was 6.86 cents per kilowatthour.
During the period from 1990 through 1999, overall demand increased by 11.3 percent. Electric generating capacity decreased by 1.7 percent during the same period.
California's reliance on power imports increased with the State currently relying on about 11,000 megawatts of out-of-state capacity. Less than 5,000 megawatts of new capacity is projected to come on line in California by 2004.

eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/page/fact_sheets/california.