You know when the welfare system is messed up when...

[LegendKiller]

That isn't the worst story I know of.

My wife has a friend from college. She studied to be a teacher, receiver her undergrad, then went to a masters program to get within 1-2 credits of getting her masters (new teachers + masters = almost unhirable). She then moves down to Naples, FL to take up a teaching job. She gets knocked up by a guy who beats her, has his kid. She then plays revolving door daddy with "the beater" and another guy (who used to be The Beater's best friend). Meanwhile, she buys a $120k house that 9 months later, due to the housing stupidity, is worth $250k.

The whole time she is playing these two guys, having them spend their money to upgrade her house and pay her bills. She manages to rack up $60k in credit card debt. The Beater gets a DUI and moves back to Wisconsin. The Nice Guy then moves back in, he's an electrician and makes good money (70hrs/wk, ~70k). She quits her teaching job to become a day care worker (making 8k less with no benefits)

She decides that a $250k house just doesn't cut it and wants a $500k house. She gets knocked up again, has fight with Nice Guy, has an abortion without telling him, then he forgives her and they have another kid. She buys a $450k house, refis the $250k to take out equity (now 100% financed), to repay credit cards (80k). She uses 40k to make a 10% down on the new house.

Both houses are no-doc, I/O loans. She still has them both.

She refuses to let "nice guy" put the two kids on his insurance. She now runs an in-home daycare (all cash). Her kids are on state paid medical and they are on welfare.

Cliffs
Boyfriend (and father of one) has excellent union paid insurance
No kids are on the insurance
He makes 70k
She makes 20k or so 90k total, which puts them well into the middle class...
They have ~650k in mortgages
They both drive SUVs
They now have ~50k in CC debt
She and her kids are on welfare

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Shhhh! Welfare works great!

..yes. Liberal dogma says only examine the alleged good intentions. Not the results.

Do you ever have anything productive to type? I live in a "liberal" state that will NOT provide me with government assistance of any form. Never have..

The system would work if it was correctly run, unfortunately that's not the case. And I am very happy you don't have anything to say about it.

 

[JRich]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Mo0o
mandatory birth control while on government welfare. Smoke all you want, as long as you dont procreate.

someone should get on this

That's discrimination against poor people. They have the right to procreate just like anyone else - after all, it's not their fault they can't support themselves.

if they can't adequately support themselves without assistance, i dont see why its fair for them to bring a child into this world

Because poor people don't PLAN to get pregnant, it just happens. They can't help it.

They need to keep it in their pants then. I do not want to pay for their idiocy.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: JRich

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Mo0o
mandatory birth control while on government welfare. Smoke all you want, as long as you dont procreate.

someone should get on this

That's discrimination against poor people. They have the right to procreate just like anyone else - after all, it's not their fault they can't support themselves.

if they can't adequately support themselves without assistance, i dont see why its fair for them to bring a child into this world

Because poor people don't PLAN to get pregnant, it just happens. They can't help it.

They need to keep it in their pants then. I do not want to pay for their idiocy.

I've met a few people who got pregnant on purpose so the welfare program would give them more money.

 

[RiverDog]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Mo0o
mandatory birth control while on government welfare. Smoke all you want, as long as you dont procreate.

someone should get on this

That's discrimination against poor people. They have the right to procreate just like anyone else - after all, it's not their fault they can't support themselves.

It's not my fault either, so whos fault is it? Why should I pay for other people's mistakes? We don't have a caste system in this country so there if very little reason to stay on welfare.

 

[child of wonder]

Welfare should have a 3 year maximum.

Unless someone is severely disabled there's no reason they can't get a job.

I'm all for helping people who are legitimately down and out on their luck, but there needs to be limits.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Welfare should have a 3 year maximum.

Unless someone is severely disabled there's no reason they can't get a job.

I'm all for helping people who are legitimately down and out on their luck, but there needs to be limits.

Have you any idea how expensive a carton of Newports is?

 

[sixone]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Welfare should have a 3 year maximum.

Unless someone is severely disabled there's no reason they can't get a job.

I'm all for helping people who are legitimately down and out on their luck, but there needs to be limits.

Have you any idea how expensive a carton of Newports is?

Have you any idea how expensive treatment for lung cancer is?

 

[RU482]

"It's the first of the month...."

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I believe there is a place for welfare but if you don't know about the fraud and abuse that happens under the current welfare and disability systems, then you are just plain ignorant.

Why work when the government will pay you not to work. There is no limit to it. In my hometown, there is a lawyer who is buddies with a certain judge. Between those two and about $2000, they will get you complete disability benefits. Everyone knows about it. The system is broken.

Do we ignore the broken system or fix it? Limit welfare to 5 years for your LIFE. Disability claims should be reevaluated by a different doctor EVERY year. Problem solved and we will have more production members of society and STILL helps the people that need help. Why is it wrong to fix the system while allowing the people who need people to get it.

I guess my mom raising me while only making 18K/year without any government assistance trained my libertarian mind wrong.

i doubt that.

getting SSDI is not like that. you don't jus go to a judge in town and get it.

they do review SSDI cases. IF they see a judge doing what you are saying (and if so blatant they would find out) the judge is a lot of trouble.

the processs of getting SSDI is so screwed up. Partly to prevent people who should not get it from getting it.


Also having SSDI recipents reviewed by a diffrent doctor every year is silly. there are very few people that can diagnose some illnesss. so they would be wasting money having them go to the same 2-3 doctors every few years. not ot mention they are reviewed every 3-10 years depending on case.

It is also hard to just look at a person and know if they are disabled. they may have a heart problem thats limits the walking etc they do. Or they may have a mental problem etc.

BUT i agree they need to fix the process for recieving SSDI.

 

[Aikouka]

Just like everything else in the world, there's definitely an issue here where people abuse the system or the system exists to make up for someone's mistake... yet the person takes no corrective measures to assure everyone that the mistake will not occur again. Sometimes bad things can happen and going on welfare for a couple months inbetween jobs or something of the sort isn't a bad thing... it's what welfare is for. People living off welfare should simply be a crime.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
~story~

The thing is, people will tell you she's being financially smart... but hey, robbing a bank is financially smart too .

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Welfare should have a 3 year maximum.

Unless someone is severely disabled there's no reason they can't get a job.

I'm all for helping people who are legitimately down and out on their luck, but there needs to be limits.

I agree.

If you can work even 10 hours aweek do it. heh it might make you more then SSDI anyway. IF you are able to work a few hours then you should. trouble is finding someone to hire you for 10 hours a week/month.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Welfare should have a 3 year maximum.

Unless someone is severely disabled there's no reason they can't get a job.

I'm all for helping people who are legitimately down and out on their luck, but there needs to be limits.

Have you any idea how expensive a carton of Newports is?

lol

They'll just have to go without.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: compnovice

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Aimster
does welfare mess up your credit?

Nope, doesn't affect it.

You gotta be kidding :Q

Well it doesn't affect your ability to pay bills.

You're just paying it with mine and everyone else who is a productive member of society's money.

Well okay they are paying it with my money....it used to bother me...but I've been very cool with that lately.

It's hard to explain but...okay...

I don't have that cash.

But neither does anyone else.

If we all had that extra cash stuff would cost more.

So....I just don't think it matters, things work out.

So you don't have a problem when that person pulls up to the store in a brand new Escalade with 22" rims and pops out wearing nice clothes and and a designer handbag and then pays for her groceries with a welfare card or food stamps? There are so many crooks on our welfare rolls just milking the system it is sickening.

Yeah, I guess things just work out....for those stealing the rest of us blind.

How often do you see those? It also would be your duty to report them.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Just like everything else in the world, there's definitely an issue here where people abuse the system or the system exists to make up for someone's mistake... yet the person takes no corrective measures to assure everyone that the mistake will not occur again. Sometimes bad things can happen and going on welfare for a couple months inbetween jobs or something of the sort isn't a bad thing... it's what welfare is for. People living off welfare should simply be a crime.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
~story~

The thing is, people will tell you she's being financially smart... but hey, robbing a bank is financially smart too .

Which is exactly the reason why there are problems with the system and people like her ruin it for others.

When I was growing up there were periods of time where my parents had little to no money. All they did was work more overtime, or cut back on expenses. They never would even think about taking any "free" help.

I have another good friend like that. His step father was injured in a construction accident, his settlement paid for a house, but the work he could do was intermittant. They had just had their 4th kid and her job was probably ~25K. My friend went to USC on a ROTC full ride and is now a nuke in the navy. His little sister went to the UnivMN, working the whole time to pay for it. They NEVER went on welfare and considered it a matter of honor to have done so well and not taken anything.

It's sad that people have so little belief in themselves and so little moral character and then they turn around and say that "the man" is keeping them down.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
That isn't the worst story I know of.

My wife has a friend from college. She studied to be a teacher, receiver her undergrad, then went to a masters program to get within 1-2 credits of getting her masters (new teachers + masters = almost unhirable). She then moves down to Naples, FL to take up a teaching job. She gets knocked up by a guy who beats her, has his kid. She then plays revolving door daddy with "the beater" and another guy (who used to be The Beater's best friend). Meanwhile, she buys a $120k house that 9 months later, due to the housing stupidity, is worth $250k.

The whole time she is playing these two guys, having them spend their money to upgrade her house and pay her bills. She manages to rack up $60k in credit card debt. The Beater gets a DUI and moves back to Wisconsin. The Nice Guy then moves back in, he's an electrician and makes good money (70hrs/wk, ~70k). She quits her teaching job to become a day care worker (making 8k less with no benefits)

She decides that a $250k house just doesn't cut it and wants a $500k house. She gets knocked up again, has fight with Nice Guy, has an abortion without telling him, then he forgives her and they have another kid. She buys a $450k house, refis the $250k to take out equity (now 100% financed), to repay credit cards (80k). She uses 40k to make a 10% down on the new house.

Both houses are no-doc, I/O loans. She still has them both.

She refuses to let "nice guy" put the two kids on his insurance. She now runs an in-home daycare (all cash). Her kids are on state paid medical and they are on welfare.

Cliffs
Boyfriend (and father of one) has excellent union paid insurance
No kids are on the insurance
He makes 70k
She makes 20k or so 90k total, which puts them well into the middle class...
They have ~650k in mortgages
They both drive SUVs
They now have ~50k in CC debt
She and her kids are on welfare

If you know this for a fact just report it. Don't complain about it here.

 

[Ausm]

Anyone on welfare that can can get off their dead ars and work should be shot...problem fixed


Ausm

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Welfare should have a 3 year maximum.

Unless someone is severely disabled there's no reason they can't get a job.

I'm all for helping people who are legitimately down and out on their luck, but there needs to be limits.

I agree.

If you can work even 10 hours aweek do it. heh it might make you more then SSDI anyway. IF you are able to work a few hours then you should. trouble is finding someone to hire you for 10 hours a week/month.

There's the problem though for most people. Welfare as it is is just a big trap. When I used it, you were required to work at least part-time, attend school, or do some amount of public service. However, if you worked more than 25 hours a week, you lost medicaid. As not many jobs that you can work part-time at offer much health insurance, people are inclinded to not work more than part-time for fear of losing health insurance, especially those with children. In addition, if you're trying to get your feet back under you, you're only allowed to have $2000 at any time. That's not much of a net.

Give people a 5 year limit which give them time to get an education and most of these things won't be a problem. If nothing else, give people a grace period of 6 months to a year after becoming disqualified to help just help make sure they stay on their feet. As it stands now, it's no wonder people never get off welfare.

Here's a break down of a few welfare benefits and how they work, for those that don't know.

Rent assistance: Given according to family size. Allocates a specific maximum amount based upon size of house/apartment in rooms. Requires 1 room per every two people. Children of opposite sex over the age of 6 are required to have separate rooms. At least one adult must work 10+ hours per week, attend school, or perform 3 hours a week of public service.

Food Stamps: Based upon family size and income. Must work minimum of 10 hours per week.

Medicaid: Can not work more than 25 hours per week. Children typically covered 100% for almost everything, including prescriptions. Adults usually pay $3 co-pay on visits and prescriptions.

Heat Assistance (Utilities): Given once a year and based upon utility cost of the previous year. Typically has a maximum.

Free lunch (school): Offered for school children, usually includes breakfast and lunch.

When I had assistance, we had medicaid, $400/year in utilities, $450/month in food stamps, and $650/month in rent assistance. There was definitely no need for free lunches, so we never took them. The amounts were NON-NEGOTIABLE. We didn't need as much support as we got, but it was all-or-nothing. You couldn't tell your case worker you only needed $100-$200 in food stamps for instance. You got all or you got nothing.

I'm grateful for the help we got, but I'm glad to be off. And I can say from experience, this system needs work.

 

[imported_Imp]

Working at a 'Welfare' Office right now (summer thing). Hear lots of complaints about people on it, who seriously need it, but barely get by on it. I think the whole system is designed to be so crappy that people will have a bigger incentive to get jobs. We provide lots of resources in that area. Then again, there are some mofos who really do abuse it. Lucky there's a fraud line, but not sure how effective that is. I'm sure I'd report some sob getting free handouts when making 6 figures...

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Imp
Working at a 'Welfare' Office right now (summer thing). Hear lots of complaints about people on it, who seriously need it, but barely get by on it. I think the whole system is designed to be so crappy that people will have a bigger incentive to get jobs. We provide lots of resources in that area. Then again, there are some mofos who really do abuse it. Lucky there's a fraud line, but not sure how effective that is. I'm sure I'd report some sob getting free handouts when making 6 figures...

the fraud line sucks.

my SIL is abusing welfare. seh just had a kid. she is not married so she is claiming its just her and the child. since she is not working she is getting her mortgage paid for (heh mortgage. its a loan ona $3k trailer LOL but welfare pays for the lto rent), food stamps, etc.

when the fvckign guy is LIVING at the house. though he has a questionable job. he works a few days a month but they claim they make like $5k a month. they also have a huge duel axle truck.

I called t he fraud number but they want me to give my name, number etc.

they need a anemones way to report.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: ironwing
More messed up welfare:
Giving performance bonuses to govt contractors who already charge outrageous prices while missing deadlines and performing shoddy work.

There's some roadwork going on out my way. The state has worked with this contractor before, and they're very nearly always months or sometimes years behind schedule, and over budget. So what do they do for this project? Hire the same contractor. Lo and behold, they're several months behind schedule.
It's the same with contractors who do a crappy job on a government project: Do you haul them back and make them do repairs at a loss? Hell no! Pay them to repair the work that they were already paid to do.

 

[AUMM]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Mo0o
mandatory birth control while on government welfare. Smoke all you want, as long as you dont procreate.

someone should get on this

How do you force them to take the pills?

I'd rather not increase welfare costs considerably by paying for tons of unused birth control, thanks.

yeah its completely impratical but one can only wish.

injectable birth control

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Mo0o
mandatory birth control while on government welfare. Smoke all you want, as long as you dont procreate.

someone should get on this

How do you force them to take the pills?

I'd rather not increase welfare costs considerably by paying for tons of unused birth control, thanks.

yeah its completely impratical but one can only wish.

tubal ligation. the woman has to have a certified note from a surgeon showing that procedure was performed. Hell, jsut paying for the surgery out of the welfare coffers should reduce the overall strain on the system.

but hey...forced sterilization is too fascist for my taste; but there is a practical way of going about it.

 

[jackace]

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: sixone

Originally posted by: Mo0o
mandatory birth control while on government welfare. Smoke all you want, as long as you dont procreate.

someone should get on this

That's discrimination against poor people. They have the right to procreate just like anyone else - after all, it's not their fault they can't support themselves.

if they can't adequately support themselves without assistance, i dont see why its fair for them to bring a child into this world

Because poor people don't PLAN to get pregnant, it just happens. They can't help it.

Exactly why they need to have mandatory tubal ligation AND vasectomies.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Imp
Working at a 'Welfare' Office right now (summer thing). Hear lots of complaints about people on it, who seriously need it, but barely get by on it. I think the whole system is designed to be so crappy that people will have a bigger incentive to get jobs. We provide lots of resources in that area. Then again, there are some mofos who really do abuse it. Lucky there's a fraud line, but not sure how effective that is. I'm sure I'd report some sob getting free handouts when making 6 figures...

the fraud line sucks.

my SIL is abusing welfare. seh just had a kid. she is not married so she is claiming its just her and the child. since she is not working she is getting her mortgage paid for (heh mortgage. its a loan ona $3k trailer LOL but welfare pays for the lto rent), food stamps, etc.

when the fvckign guy is LIVING at the house. though he has a questionable job. he works a few days a month but they claim they make like $5k a month. they also have a huge duel axle truck.

I called t he fraud number but they want me to give my name, number etc.

they need a anemones way to report.

HOLY CRAP WAS THAT ENGLISH?