You have to pass a "spiritual fitness" test to serve in the Army?

[Drekce]

I am a civilian who works for the Army (Systems Engineer), so I have firsthand experience in the purpose of this.

The Army has experienced a lot of suicides throughout the ranks the past few years. In order to help combat this problem they have instituted a bunch of suicide prevention training (aimed at learning how to notice suicidal signals in others and what can be done to help them). A part of the whole effort includes a focus on fitness in a number of areas: physical, mental, spiritual, etc. The idea is that if you are strong in all of these areas you are less likely to become suicidal, and more able to notice and help others who might be.

That is all this is related to, nothing more. I'm surprised that the talking heads haven't started claiming that atheists are pro suicide based on their issues with this whole thing!

 

[FelixDeCat]

I am a civilian who works for the Army (Systems Engineer), so I have firsthand experience in the purpose of this.

The Army has experienced a lot of suicides throughout the ranks the past few years. In order to help combat this problem they have instituted a bunch of suicide prevention training (aimed at learning how to notice suicidal signals in others and what can be done to help them). A part of the whole effort includes a focus on fitness in a number of areas: physical, mental, spiritual, etc. The idea is that if you are strong in all of these areas you are less likely to become suicidal, and more able to notice and help others who might be.

That is all this is related to, nothing more. I'm surprised that the talking heads haven't started claiming that atheists are pro suicide based on their issues with this whole thing!

Interesting insight. They used to call it "mental hygiene" when I was training.

 

[destrekor]

That's a failure of a test, but also, the selected responses are also fail.

You think nobody has lasting meaning, and the actions of the soldier to your left or right has zero meaning?

I am not spiritual at all, and I am a very strongly Atheist individual, and answering honestly, I probably would have passed that test.
All the "I'm spiritual" questions, that's a 0. But, while I think overall humanity means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, we are here, and the things we do can have a lasting impact on the others that are here and now, or who will be here hundreds of years later.
The actions of a sole individual, in a situation that has seemingly zero significance, can alter the behavior and viewpoints of many individuals after the fact, and can change history.

I think in whole all of this is pointless, but since we are here, might as well try and make it better.

However, as I am in the Army, I should also state this: I have never seen that test in my life.
I have seen similar surveys, either in the Army or in school, and can recognize it for what it is: a survey for research. Trying to judge the overall picture of those who may or may not be interested in military service.

And when it comes to anything involving modern civilization, the military (at least I can speak for the Army) is at least one step behind. There are plenty of atheist and agnostic individuals in the Army, but it's still a fairly spiritual organization. For the religious in the military (and the religious in general), it's difficult to understand why people who don't believe in spiritual philosophies, would actually put themselves in harms way for civilization.

Monotheistic ideals have been so ingrained in the modern world, that actually serving the people for the purpose of serving the people, and not because it's part of the religious calling, seems like an asinine idea.

One life, a fairly short time to actually do anything that matters... I say, I'm going to give it my best shot. I don't need a dream/promise of some reward or punishment, I don't need to be threatened with some massive manuscript of hate ("love"), having the knowledge that people before me tried, and the dream that people after me might get a chance to benefit and have something better... that's enough for me.

 

[MarkXIX]

As an Atheist, after answering honestly, did you receive the "assessment" listed above?

Yes. The assessment was correct. I am not spiritual. It told me what I already knew.

 

[Nintendesert]

Bitch about the higher suicide rates then bitch about the attempts to identify and treat soldiers that may be at risk.

 

[JS80]

1980's - Cold War
2010's - Holy War

2020's - Cold Holy War?
2030's - Holy Cold War?

 

[Perknose]

Yes. The assessment was correct. I am not spiritual. It told me what I already knew.

So, you actually received that formal assessment?

And, it was correct, that "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal" for you?

You have NO problem with this at all?

...That, as you state, " The assessment was correct"?

Really? D:

 

[Lifted]

And, it was correct, that "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal" for you?

He did say he wasn't spiritual.

 

[MarkXIX]

So, you actually received that formal assessment?

And, it was correct, that "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal" for you?

You have NO problem with this at all?

...That, as you state, " The assessment was correct"?

Really? D:

Yeah, what's wrong with that? It's not an edict. It's not a directive. It's not a moral imperative that tells me I'm a bad person. It doesn't tell me what or who to worship either.

If nothing else, I found it interesting. I think where it makes its mark is with Soldiers who previously were religious but answered those questions in such a way that indicates they've lost their religious tenets and values.

Was I supposed to read that assessment as "You are a Godless heathen, die in the fiery pits of hell or repent now!"

Also, thinking on it logically, the only way to NOT identify Soldiers who have lost their faith (AKA spiritual fitness) would be to ask them their faith up front and adjust the questions accordingly, but that too would be deemed offensive somehow. Its a "no win" situation.

 

[Perknose]

And, it was correct, that "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal" for you?

He did say he wasn't spiritual.

Yes, but is it correct and proper for the US Army to be formally TELLING him, "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal"?

That is my question to him, so let me ask you . . . do you think it is?

 

[Lifted]

Yes, but is it correct and proper for the US Army to be formally TELLING him, "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal"?

That is my question to him, so let me ask you . . . do you think it is?

If that comes with some data showing that spiritual people are less likely too off themselves during and after the horrors of war, then why not? They aren't holding a gun to your head, just making a suggestion.

 

[MarkXIX]

Why is this so confusing? The majority of people on the planet are spiritual (AKA religious). I am not. It is therefore logical that many things in the world around me might lean toward the majority, those that are spiritual.

So, being a logical person, I made an assumption when I started answering those questions that a survey about my spiritual fitness might indicate that an Atheist like me might not register high on the scale. So, when it said my spiritual fitness was low and that I might need to strengthen it, it was easy for me to write off the results and call it even.

Counter-intuitive, maybe. Logical to me and anyone else with a pre-disposed notion that a survey on spirituality might skew the result of Atheist input? Sure.

 

[Perknose]

Yeah, what's wrong with that? It's not an edict. It's not a directive. It's not a moral imperative that tells me I'm a bad person. It doesn't tell me what or who to worship either.

What's WRONG with it? You are really asking that? D:

It IS the US Army formally telling you that you, an Atheist, that you are not worshiping enough, and that worshiping something you don't believe in should be "an important goal for you."

Also, thinking on it logically...

Please. D:

Stop right there.

"Thinking on it logically," this is nothing BUT the US Army formally and in writing telling you that your personal beliefs as an Atheist are deficient and SO FORMALLY UNACCEPTABLE THAT "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal" for you.

 

[MarkXIX]

Perknose, all due respect, but why does it seem like you're trying to tell me HOW I should think? You can't.

Also, again, a statement that has the word "should" in it is NOT a directive statement.

Finally, if I choose NOT to follow what could be loosely described as a recommendation, absolutely NOTHING will happen as a result.

Don't confuse Atheist (without religion) with anti-religion, which is where I believe many so called Atheists gravitate toward. I say again, if someone is without religion, as an Atheist would claim to be, why care about ANY religious act short of being strapped to a cross?

 

[Perknose]

If that comes with some data showing that spiritual people are less likely too off themselves during and after the horrors of war, then why not? They aren't holding a gun to your head, just making a suggestion.

Where do you work? Wherever it is, you can bet that your boss and your company exert less overt control over you than would be the case if you were in the service. Or . . . did you go through basic training for your job wherein you were repeatedly referred to as "maggot"?

So, in your fAR less coercive atmosphere, how would you feel if you were forced to take a test after which you were told, say, that you believed too directly in a God and that, since there was data that showed that Atheists were more efficent and had less workplace accidents, you probably should abandon your religious beliefs because "Improving your non-fairly-tale-belief in a magic father in the sky fitness should be an important goal"?

Because, HEY, the ends (improving workplace safety) always justify the means (coercive and intrusive personal directives regarding your personal religious beliefs or lack of same.)

Catching on to my objection to this yet?

 

[Perknose]

Perknose, all due respect, but why does it seem like you're trying to tell me HOW I should think? You can't.

Lol, I'm not but the Army is. See?

Here's the Army doing EXACTLY that: "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal"? Yet you claim to have no problem with it!

Now, please quote me where I tell you what you I think you should think. Find any of my words where I tell you that.

You can't, because I didn't, yet you feel so pressured by only my questions to you that you feel I did and don't like that.

See?

See my objection to what the Army is doing?

 

[QueBert]

Go to an AA meeting, they'll tell you'll never be able to stay sober without spirituality. Spirituality's a great thing, but ATOT's full of fucktards who crap on anything even remotely religious. So I wouldn't expect most here to understand that.

 

[Lifted]

I think you're assuming that the military is, or at some point has been, politically correct. Nothing about the military seems politically correct to me, and with all of the other things that the military makes people do (guinea pigs for drugs), suggesting that soldiers be more spiritual after taking a survey is far down on my personal list of "fucked up things about the military".

 

[Fenixgoon]

looks more like a survey than a test, based on the consent to share/use data.

 

[sandorski]

Lol, I'm not but the Army is. See?

Here's the Army doing EXACTLY that: "Improving your spiritual fitness should be an important goal"? Yet you claim to have no problem with it!

Now, please quote me where I tell you what you I think you should think. Find any of my words where I tell you that.

You can't, because I didn't, yet you feel so pressured by only my questions to you that you feel I did and don't like that.

See?

See my objection to what the Army is doing?

You're coming from the Legal/Constitutional angle, he's coming from the Personal/Ego angle. What we got here is, failure to communicate.

 

[BrokenVisage]

That's right, no Atheists or Gays in foxholes. Only manly brainwashed men need apply.

Thankfully legislature may finally do something about the latter at least.

 

[lupi]

maybe they've found that it's the aetheist that keep offing themselves.

 

[coloumb]

I doubt this test is a real test for the military that would bar you from service. But, spiritual health is part of mental health. During my time in the USAF, I did get to take a number of mental health tests and assessments, most of which had questions related to one's spirituality.

I don't recall any of those types of tests... well, unless you count the T.I.'s messing with your mind in basic training.

 

[BoberFett]

Don't ask, don't tell, eh soldier?

Man, the Army has changed since I was enlisted.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Believing the enemy to be heathens makes it easier to kill them.