I don't identify, my view is based on reality, yours is based on what other flagwaving idiots spoonfed you making you in fact a double idiot
no go wave that flag a little bit more son
I don't identify, my view is based on reality, yours is based on what other flagwaving idiots spoonfed you making you in fact a double idiot
no go wave that flag a little bit more son
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
Wow, this thread went downhill fast. When will people realize that the FUD spread around about other countries, France and US included, is usually a big pile of crap. When is the last time most of the posters here visited France from teh US or vice-versa? My guess is not lately. I've never been to France, and even I know the 'cheese-eating surrender monkey always looking for omgentitlements' is only a view based out of ignorance. This business about WW2 considering the original topic amounts to an argument a first grader would have. It all devolves to "I know you are but what am I!?!". Shesh. :roll:
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
Touché. However, stupidity knows no national and/or international boundaries. (Both figuratively and literally)
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
The French did not get "overrun" in WW1. They lost as many as the Germans and kept them out. The Germans tried to be sneaky that time also, but it did not work and for years the war was a stalemate in trenches while Germans and French bled.
This is one of the big reasons why they got overrun in WW2, France is a smaller populated country that lost far too many young men just a generation before to combat the brunt of the bigger German attack. Bad planning as far as defensive locations and combined arms doctrines were no match, the Germans planned around what they expected the weakened French to do.
Before you bash them further remember, France did occupy about as much of europe as Hitler pulled off in WW2 under Nappy in the 19th century, in the 18th they were OUR heros who saved us from the Brits.
To be honest in the world wars European theater we were always the johnny-come-lately, in WW1 the Germans were on the brink of collapse when we came into the picture and in WW2 the Russians were already rolling the Nazis asses up on the eastern front not far from Berlin.
The French (and UK) shouldered the brunt of the German attack in WW1 and the Russians took the brunt of WW2.
If you are going to bash the French, please learn some history or you make yourselves look like the "typical" uneducated American when it comes to history.
Edit: forgot the UK
Perhaps instead of posting ignorant deology, you might read a bit and get a clue about how labor issues work, why your comments are utterly inadequate.
There's some idiocy. Let's bring up how the French saved the US revolution, then - but on WWII, the US sat on the side for years until Germany declared war on the US.
And the US went to war for our own interests, not to save the French, which just happened to be part of winning the war with Germany.
The imbecility of trying to say that the OP topic of the French society's healthy democracy in terms of the people acting politically is pointless because of WWII is pathetic.
The US has had its own period of healthier democracy, and when they did, the nation benefitted. In particular, the progressive/labor era in the early 1900's and during FDR's presidency was a breakthrough period in the people changing their situation from virtually serf status for many, to building a far stronger middle class. The OP's point is right on.
There was a strong synergy between the democratic spirit of France and the US in the period when they got rid of their kings. It's just idiots who try to make France an enemy.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
I lived in France for 5-6 years. They're not lazy.
They have to protest, they're stuck with their system.
UHC costs a ton, SS taxes were over 20% when I lived there (VAT wasn't cheap either). It's hella expensive for employers as they bear most of the cost (BTW: when I was there you didn't have "UHC" unless you were employed or a dependant of an employee - is that UHC? IDK how the system works now).
Labor cost are freakin high under their system, so there's not enough jobs to go around. Never have been as long as I can remember.
Look closely at them, I suspect that's our future.
Fern
They have to protest, they're stuck with their system.
UHC costs a ton, SS taxes were over 20% when I lived there (VAT wasn't cheap either). It's hella expensive for employers as they bear most of the cost (BTW: when I was there you didn't have "UHC" unless you were employed or a dependant of an employee - is that UHC? IDK how the system works now).
Labor cost are freakin high under their system, so there's not enough jobs to go around. Never have been as long as I can remember.
Look closely at them, I suspect that's our future.
Fern
I've gone from the 'ignorant American' status of viewing the French protests as ridiculous, annoying, bad policy, to actually learning some of our own labor history in the US, that is largely untaught in schools and forgotten - I was particularly less than please with the French love of striking when I was kicked off a train with all the other passengers, sleepy in the early morning, to walk to the nearest town and take a but the rest of the way to Paris - to appreciate the issues better and the benefits of labor being organized. My recollection is that French worker productivity is not below that of America's; we pride ourselves on the idea that American is the land of opportunity for all, but there is greater wealth mobility in France than in the US.
They have sevreral weeks' vacation and a safety net (albeit one even I think may be a bit excessive), UHC, and IMO, a better approach in those areas.
The natural tendency is for labor standards to be pulled down - what keeps American workers from having to become like China's, the more 'free trade' there is? - and I'm in favor of the nations who raise the conditions for people - in favor of China becomeing more like the US than the US more like China, in favor of the US workers doing better like the French rather than France being pulled down to the US and China.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
I see no reason why our system would mirror the French, we have the resources and population to take the best of all systems and use that to our advantage.
There are good and bad things about every UHC incarnation.
The only thing we know for sure at this point is that it is costing us not to have it ourselves and it works much better over there.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
This is a amazing part of US History untaught, many people died to afford us our labor rights and decent wages. But this is the LAST part of US History the elites want us to remember, as it was direct action against the powers who really control this country. -The ones with the $ looking to get more from the workers at the expense of the workers standard of living and ability to work hard for a decent quality of life.
Yes, it's pretty amazing how dishonest the history classes are about this. One good way to get a start on the story is to read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States."
I would like to see this happening in America. If millions of people who don't like the way the current administration is running this country into the ground, instead of waiting for another 4 years for the next election, they should bring the whole country to a stop with protests and strikes. Of course, if another administration takes turn, and millions of people who don't like it can take it to the street, rinse & repeat. Election is so yesterday.
Here's the actual mindset: It's only appropriate for white French people to riot or protest. When it's anyone else, well then they're just animals.
you're a fool. If thats your standard, then the only reason that the uk has political freedom is because of the english channel, otherwise they would have been overrun as well.
Europe in general is much less tolerant of immigrants and different people who are not their guests.
According to most of the French majority, only white people may be considered to be French. They have another term for people of different races.
Excellent point...
Too bad most of this thread degenerated into total bullshit on whether or not France sucks, if they will be more competitive, etc...as opposed to the original intention. However there are still some very interesting opinions that were voiced from many others that made it worth while.
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