You have a plane and a conveyor belt.

[MidNiteMysT]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: MidNiteMysT

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: MidNiteMysT
damn.... is this question really that hard?

the plane wont take off. the only way planes are able to lift off is because of the lift on the wings. thats why they have those huge runways to take off. if it was possible to take off with just a conveyor belt, dont you think airports would be using them? it would be extremely convient. and not only that, dont you think aircraft carriers would use them with their limited space? they dont use them and you cant use them because it wont work. thats why they rely on a "sling shot" type method to get their planes off the ground. this topic so so damn long and it doesnt make sense. if youre running on a tredmel, do you feel air blowing past you? no you dont. and thats why a plane cant lift off. he needs air to pass by its wings. otherwise, why would a plane have wings if it could lift without air passing its wings?

this topic should have been done a loooong time ago.

*sigh* Another moron in the thread who didn't read past the 3rd post.

The plane *moves!* Do you not see that? The plane moves just as if it were on solid ground. Therefore it takes the same length of runway to achive lift off, so turning the 300yd asphalt runways into 300yd conveyor belts would be a bit pointless, don't ya think?

No one is claiming that the plane stays completely motionless, then magically takes off after some period.

THE ROTATING TREADMILL ACTS ON THE FREE-SPINNING WHEELS ONLY AND DOES NOT STOP THE FORWARD MOTION OF THE PLANE PROVIDED BY ITS JETS. THE END.

Now, everyone else who can't see this and think you know something special, please stfu.

that was a pretty cute reply but sadly, it was worthless cause youre a dumbass. the whole point of using a runway to achieve take off is because air is passing by its wings! if you stay pretty much motionless in the same area, air isnt passing you by unless its wind. and you need more than wind to achieve lift. i thought i already explained this to you. if youre running on a treadmill, do you feel air passing by you? NO. so how can a plane take off without air passing its wings? it makes a huge different if youre going down a 300ft runway and 300ft conveyorbelt that keeps you in the same position. i provided so many examples already. and if you in fact are correct about conveyor belts, try responding to my examples such as air craft carriers and a more effiecent use of space in every airport in the world? so i dont know what the hell youre trying to say, but you obviously arent saying it right. nice touch leaving a image with stfu, NERD. maybe you wanna call me a troll too, like a super nerd? hahaha. youre so pathetic. next time, try to not be such a loser.

Its already been explained a gagillion(thats the correct number) times in this thread. The plane will MOVE on the conveyor belt. We are not saying the plane will accelerate on a conveyor belt while staying in place...we are saying it will physically MOVE FORWARD. This is due to the unopposed force the engines create. All the treadmill does is spin the wheels faster.

Think of the ideal case. You put a toy car on a treadmill. Turn on the treadmill and the toy car will roll in place because the wheels are free to spin. If you apply even a small force with your finger(simulating the engine) the car moves forward. If this force is constant, then the plane/car will accelerate. Thereby taking off.

Hopes this clears up things for ya 🙂

i guess i simply wasnt clear on the conditions. and if thats the case as you pointed out, as long as the wheels can spin freely, i dont see why the airplane wouldnt take off. the wheels spinning play pretty much no factor unless it cant spin fast anymore to compensate. thats really the only question. if the wheels can take the speed. but then theres really no benifit of using a conveyor belt over a runway. but yea, if someone were to use a conveyor belt, it would def lift off unless something is wrong with the wheels ability to freely spin. especially since the plane isnt driving with its wheels, its using thrust from engines not dependent on the wheels. if the plane used wheels like a car then it wouldnt work, but obviously they dont.

thank you for POLITELY pointint it out to me. and to all the losers who like to bash other people like saying "this thread was dead a long time ago, you arent smart cause it was figured out like a million years ago, blah blah blah", shut up 🙂

 

[gilligans]

if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

 

[MidNiteMysT]

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

look above and rethink what youre saying. its not a car, its a airplane. it doesnt rely on the wheels to move foward, it uses engines to push air. think about it.

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: gilligans
i cant believe how stupid you guys are. there is no way the plane will take off. in order for it to fly, there must be lift on the wings. there will be no lift because the plane isnt moving.

normally, a plane takes off because the jets/propellars drive the plane foward thus getting lift on the airplane. in this situation, the jets/propellars are on but is being negated by the conveyor belt. the faster the plane tries to go forward, the faster the conveyor belt moves in the opposite directing, thus keeping the plane still.

this is the end of it.


THE PLANE WILL NOT FLY. PERIOD.

I love it when people like you call others idiots. It just makes my day. 🙂

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: MidNiteMysT

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

look above and rethink what youre saying. its not a car, its a airplane. it doesnt rely on the wheels to move foward, it uses engines to push air. think about it.

And the converyor speeds up to hold the plane in place.

I like the "put a toy car on a treadmill" approach and push with your finger because it demonstrates it so well.

In order to even prevent the toy car with wings (airplane) from moving backwards you will have to apply a force forward with your finger (motor). As you speed up the conveyor you will have to apply more force with this finger motor until eventually your finger motor cannot apply any more force. Thus preventing your from moving forward.

 

[FP]

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

No need to get hostile.

Are you saying that the conveyer belt adds a force opposing the force I (or the engines) am applying?

That doesn't make sense. The forward force is unopposed and thus the plane moves forward. The conveyer just spins the wheels freely.

EDIT: The wheels only need to spin faster than the conveyer to move if the plane is getting its speed from the friction between the wheels and the belt.

 

[gilligans]

Originally posted by: MidNiteMysT

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

look above and rethink what youre saying. its not a car, its a airplane. it doesnt rely on the wheels to move foward, it uses engines to push air. think about it.

you need to think. how does the plane get into the air? it needs lift, and without it, it wont fly. in the beginning of flight, the engine is used to propel the plane forward to create enough lift so the plane can fly. the plane will not move forward because of the belt going the opposite direction.

no more please. if you kids cant see that, blame your parents for being stupid.

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MidNiteMysT

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

look above and rethink what youre saying. its not a car, its a airplane. it doesnt rely on the wheels to move foward, it uses engines to push air. think about it.

And the converyor speeds up to hold the plane in place.

I like the "put a toy car on a treadmill" approach and push with your finger because it demonstrates it so well.

In order to even prevent the toy car with wings (airplane) from moving backwards you will have to apply a force forward with your finger (motor). As you speed up the conveyor you will have to apply more force with this finger motor until eventually your finger motor cannot apply any more force. Thus preventing your from moving forward.

So, placing a treadmill underneath an airplane as it's flying will cause it to drop like a rock? :Q

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: gilligans

you need to think. how does the plane get into the air? it needs lift, and without it, it wont fly. in the beginning of flight, the engine is used to propel the plane forward to create enough lift so the plane can fly. the plane will not move forward because of the belt going the opposite direction.

no more please. if you kids cant see that, blame your parents for being stupid.

Of course it needs air. And it will accelerate, under condition #2, until it reaches the appropriate velocity and lift off.

 

[gilligans]

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: MidNiteMysT

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

look above and rethink what youre saying. its not a car, its a airplane. it doesnt rely on the wheels to move foward, it uses engines to push air. think about it.

And the converyor speeds up to hold the plane in place.

I like the "put a toy car on a treadmill" approach and push with your finger because it demonstrates it so well.

In order to even prevent the toy car with wings (airplane) from moving backwards you will have to apply a force forward with your finger (motor). As you speed up the conveyor you will have to apply more force with this finger motor until eventually your finger motor cannot apply any more force. Thus preventing your from moving forward.

So, placing a treadmill underneath an airplane as it's flying will cause it to drop like a

rock? :Q

now your being stupid again. if its flying, its flying. the KEY is getting a plane to fly while its standing still. its not happening kid.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

No, you're wrong... If you push the plane forward, the position of the aircraft relative to its starting position has changed. The belt can speed up all it wants. This can go on exponentially untill the wheel bearings melt down or the conveyor belt shreds itself. Assuming there are no mechanical limitations, the fact of the matter is, the movement of the ground underneath the plane is irrelevant. The movement of air over the wing is what creates lift.

Consider this for a moment. The Earth rotates at something like 13,000 MPH yet planes take off opposite the Earth's rotation hundreds of times every day. Now you could argue that the atmosphere is also in rotation with the planet which is true, but the point is just that... It does not matter how the ground surface moves, if the aircraft can generate enough windspeed (regardless of wheelspeed) to create lift then it will fly.

 

[ShadowBlade]

wow

 

[RatDog]

Best.Thread.Ever.

I don't know which one I'm more surprised by. The number of people who think the plane won't take off or the number of people who still have preferences set to 20 posts per page.

For the people who say the plane will not move what is your response to the roller skates:wheels::treadmill:conveyor::arms pulling on rope:engines thrusting analogy? Are you saying someone on rollerskates could not pull themselves forward?

 

[gilligans]

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

No, you're wrong... If you push the plane forward, the position of the aircraft relative to its starting position has changed. The belt can speed up all it wants. This can go on exponentially untill the wheel bearings melt down. The fact of the matter is, the movement of the ground underneath the plane is irrelevant. The movement of air over the wing is what creates lift.

Consider this for a moment. The Earth rotates at something like 13,000 MPH yet planes take off opposite the Earth's rotation hundreds of times every day. Now you could argue that the atmosphere is also in rotation with the planet which is true, but the point is just that... It does not matter how the ground surface moves, if the aircraft can generate enough windspeed (regardless of wheelspeed) to create lift then it will fly.

hey kid, if you push the plane forward, the wheels must turn. as your push turns the wheels faster to achieve movement, the belts are turning just as fast the opposite direction, thus keeping it still. get that in your head.

 

[Glavinsolo]

http://biocurious.com/the-case-of-the-plane-and-the-conveyor-belt

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?s=45...69e4&showtopic=2417&st=870&#entry41820

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060303.html

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: gilligans
hey kid, if you push the plane forward, the wheels must turn. as your push turns the wheels faster to achieve movement, the belts are turning just as fast the opposite direction, thus keeping it still. get that in your head.

What you're referring to, condition #1, is an impossibility. Therefore, you cannot determine whether it will take off.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

Originally posted by: gilligans

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

No, you're wrong... If you push the plane forward, the position of the aircraft relative to its starting position has changed. The belt can speed up all it wants. This can go on exponentially untill the wheel bearings melt down. The fact of the matter is, the movement of the ground underneath the plane is irrelevant. The movement of air over the wing is what creates lift.

Consider this for a moment. The Earth rotates at something like 13,000 MPH yet planes take off opposite the Earth's rotation hundreds of times every day. Now you could argue that the atmosphere is also in rotation with the planet which is true, but the point is just that... It does not matter how the ground surface moves, if the aircraft can generate enough windspeed (regardless of wheelspeed) to create lift then it will fly.

hey kid, if you push the plane forward, the wheels must turn. as your push turns the wheels faster to achieve movement, the belts are turning just as fast the opposite direction, thus keeping it still. get that in your head.

Negative. If a force NOT BOUND by the speed of the surface traveling beneath the plane is applied to the aircraft, the plane moves. So the conveyor belt compensates you say... so what?! This only results an exponential increase in both wheel and beltspeed. The plane still moves and all the while this exponential increase in both wheel and beltspeed continues. Eventually the forward mometum generates enough WINDSPEED (not to be confused with groundspeed) to create a vaccum over the wing's airfoil thus resulting in lift. Hence the plane flys.

Of course by this time both the wheel and beltspeeds have reached astronomical levels but again it's irrelevant.

JR..

 

[HardcoreRobot]

wheels arent fixed. thrust is not delivered through the wheels. they are free spinning, conveyor keeps up, plane has no horizontal movement, no air moving across the wings, no lift, plane stays on the ground

im sure that all the smart people here figured it out in the first 1000 posts though

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: gilligans

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

No, you're wrong... If you push the plane forward, the position of the aircraft relative to its starting position has changed. The belt can speed up all it wants. This can go on exponentially untill the wheel bearings melt down. The fact of the matter is, the movement of the ground underneath the plane is irrelevant. The movement of air over the wing is what creates lift.

Consider this for a moment. The Earth rotates at something like 13,000 MPH yet planes take off opposite the Earth's rotation hundreds of times every day. Now you could argue that the atmosphere is also in rotation with the planet which is true, but the point is just that... It does not matter how the ground surface moves, if the aircraft can generate enough windspeed (regardless of wheelspeed) to create lift then it will fly.

hey kid, if you push the plane forward, the wheels must turn. as your push turns the wheels faster to achieve movement, the belts are turning just as fast the opposite direction, thus keeping it still. get that in your head.

Example. You are on a treadmill, wearing roller blades. There is rope attached to the wall. You are holding the rope. Think about what happens if you pull on the rope. You move forward. Even if the treadmill spins faster you still move forward. If if the treadmill tries to 'match your speed' or whatever, you still move forward. You can actually pull yourself off the front of the treadmill using this method. This is because the force (you pulling on the rope) has no opposite force to counter it because the wheels of your roller blades spin freely.

Essentially that is the same principle behind the plane, except in the plane's case the rope are the engines. Nomatter how fast that treadmill spins, the plane moves forward, just like you move forward on a treadmill.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: gilligans

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

No, you're wrong... If you push the plane forward, the position of the aircraft relative to its starting position has changed. The belt can speed up all it wants. This can go on exponentially untill the wheel bearings melt down. The fact of the matter is, the movement of the ground underneath the plane is irrelevant. The movement of air over the wing is what creates lift.

Consider this for a moment. The Earth rotates at something like 13,000 MPH yet planes take off opposite the Earth's rotation hundreds of times every day. Now you could argue that the atmosphere is also in rotation with the planet which is true, but the point is just that... It does not matter how the ground surface moves, if the aircraft can generate enough windspeed (regardless of wheelspeed) to create lift then it will fly.

hey kid, if you push the plane forward, the wheels must turn. as your push turns the wheels faster to achieve movement, the belts are turning just as fast the opposite direction, thus keeping it still. get that in your head.

Example. You are on a treadmill, wearing roller blades. There is rope attached to the wall. You are holding the rope. Think about what happens if you pull on the rope. You move forward. Even if the treadmill spins faster you still move forward. If if the treadmill tries to 'match your speed' or whatever, you still move forward. You can actually pull yourself off the front of the treadmill using this method. This is because the force (you pulling on the rope) has no opposite force to counter it because the wheels of your roller blades spin freely.

Essentially that is the same principle behind the plane, except in the plane's case the rope are the engines. Nomatter how fast that treadmill spins, the plane moves forward, just like you move forward on a treadmill.

Wow, epiphany after i read that. I understand why the plane flies now.

 

[gilligans]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: gilligans

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer

Originally posted by: gilligans
if you push the plane forward, those tires need to rotate to go forward. as the tires rotate, the belt is rotating in the opposite direction, thus keeping it still.

open your f*&king eyes.

No, you're wrong... If you push the plane forward, the position of the aircraft relative to its starting position has changed. The belt can speed up all it wants. This can go on exponentially untill the wheel bearings melt down. The fact of the matter is, the movement of the ground underneath the plane is irrelevant. The movement of air over the wing is what creates lift.

Consider this for a moment. The Earth rotates at something like 13,000 MPH yet planes take off opposite the Earth's rotation hundreds of times every day. Now you could argue that the atmosphere is also in rotation with the planet which is true, but the point is just that... It does not matter how the ground surface moves, if the aircraft can generate enough windspeed (regardless of wheelspeed) to create lift then it will fly.

hey kid, if you push the plane forward, the wheels must turn. as your push turns the wheels faster to achieve movement, the belts are turning just as fast the opposite direction, thus keeping it still. get that in your head.

Example. You are on a treadmill, wearing roller blades. There is rope attached to the wall. You are holding the rope. Think about what happens if you pull on the rope. You move forward. Even if the treadmill spins faster you still move forward. If if the treadmill tries to 'match your speed' or whatever, you still move forward. You can actually pull yourself off the front of the treadmill using this method. This is because the force (you pulling on the rope) has no opposite force to counter it because the wheels of your roller blades spin freely.

Essentially that is the same principle behind the plane, except in the plane's case the rope are the engines. Nomatter how fast that treadmill spins, the plane moves forward, just like you move forward on a treadmill.

and you think your smart? now you just changed the question. since you added another force(pulling of a rope) why dont i add another force(pulling of a rope on the tail end) you think the plane will go anywhere? dont change the question, you might as well replace airplane and instead say helicopter. yes helicopter will fly, you see. lol. or why not say that the plane is a harrier. you kids crack me up. stupid kids, go to f&*king school please.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Example. You are on a treadmill, wearing roller blades. There is rope attached to the wall. You are holding the rope. Think about what happens if you pull on the rope. You move forward. Even if the treadmill spins faster you still move forward. If if the treadmill tries to 'match your speed' or whatever, you still move forward. You can actually pull yourself off the front of the treadmill using this method. This is because the force (you pulling on the rope) has no opposite force to counter it because the wheels of your roller blades spin freely.

Essentially that is the same principle behind the plane, except in the plane's case the rope are the engines. Nomatter how fast that treadmill spins, the plane moves forward, just like you move forward on a treadmill.

The HUGE problem with that analogy is:
1) how hard are you pulling?
2) how fast is the treadmill going?
3) If you move forward we are no longer talking about the scenario described in the original problem

Because I'll just make the treadmill go a whole lot faster and prevent your from moving forward.

 

[scottish144]

I thought this thread was dead,
I sang no song to mourn
I thought this thread had died,
and so went to look at p0rn
but then I came back to OT
and there again was it
my first thought was holy moly
and now I scream holy Sh!t!!!
I thought this thread had died at last.
Now go shove your flaming up ur a$$

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Example. You are on a treadmill, wearing roller blades. There is rope attached to the wall. You are holding the rope. Think about what happens if you pull on the rope. You move forward. Even if the treadmill spins faster you still move forward. If if the treadmill tries to 'match your speed' or whatever, you still move forward. You can actually pull yourself off the front of the treadmill using this method. This is because the force (you pulling on the rope) has no opposite force to counter it because the wheels of your roller blades spin freely.

Essentially that is the same principle behind the plane, except in the plane's case the rope are the engines. Nomatter how fast that treadmill spins, the plane moves forward, just like you move forward on a treadmill.

The HUGE problem with that analogy is:
1) how hard are you pulling?
2) how fast is the treadmill going?
3) If you move forward we are no longer talking about the scenario described in the original problem

Because I'll just make the treadmill go a whole lot faster and prevent your from moving forward.

The reason why there is a force [backwards] on you is that there is friction in the wheels and the axles. If we assume they are frictionless, you will feel 0 force. This is what we're essentially assuming for the plane. either that or the engines force >>>>>>> friction force. Either way, you know if your wheels are well lubricated, you don't need to pull too hard on the rope to get it moving....

 

[spidey07]

Since when are we assuming the wheels are frictionless?

Even so. For the plane to move it breaks the conditions of the problem.

There is no way for the plane to take off. I really don't know how to put it more simply.