You choose 7950GT or X1950 Pro

[pkilway01]

As the title implies, I'd like to order a new video card today. Looking to stay around $150 (including rebates if applicable).

One note on the X1950 Pro. I went to the Sapphire forums and asked about the recommended power for the X1950 Pro. The techs there, were not only a bit "stuffy", insisted that the X1950 Pro NEEDED at least 30Amps on the +12v rail/PSU 450 Watts or greater (HIS recommends in the manual for their X1950 Pro a PSU 400 Watts or greater, and that's it) . Which I still think is rediculous. So, this has me rethinking, the 7950 GT power recommendation is only 20A o the 12V/PSU 400 Watts or greater.

I know that the 7950 GT maybe a bit faster in games, but it seems the concensus is that the X1950 Pro has a tad better image quality.

Sys:
CHENMING 501AWU-F-0 ATX Mid Tower
Tagan TG-480-U01 ATX 480W PSU
DFI nF4-DAGF - Bios A19
AMD Opteron 175
XP-90 Heatsink w/ Arctic Silver 5 & SilentCat 90mm fan
OCZ EL DDR PC-3200 Dual Channel Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR400 (PC 3200)
Sapphire Radeon X800GTO2 256MB PCI-E (Modded to 16 Pipes, overclocked to 530 core/580 memory)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer
ASUS DRW-1608P IDE DVD Burner
ASUS DVD-E616P3 IDE DVD-ROM
RAID 0 - 2 x Western Digital Caviar SE 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
Western Digital Caviar SE 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
Polyview V17D 2-Tone 17" 10ms LCD Monitor
Linksys WRT54G Wireless G Router
Windows XP Pro SP2

Games:
I really only play Everquest

The cards under consideration:

XFX PVT71JUHE4 GeForce 7950GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail

BFG Tech BFGR7950256GTOCE GeForce 7950GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 OC HDCP Video Card - Retail

SAPPHIRE 100176L Radeon X1950PRO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail

Sapphire X1950PRO ULTIMATE 256MB 580MHz

Suggestions? And if I do go NVidia, what's the procedure for removing all the ATI drivers and registry entries?

 

[CP5670]

The techs there, were not only a bit "stuffy", insisted that the X1950 Pro NEEDED at least 30Amps on the +12v rail/PSU 450 Watts or greater (HIS recommends in the manual for their X1950 Pro a PSU 400 Watts or greater, and that's it) . Which I still think is rediculous.

You can ignore them. They're just covering all the generic, crap quality units out there with that recommendation. That Tagan should have no problems with it. For reference, the system in my signature uses about 230W on full load once the PSU's efficiency is factored in.

Apart from that, the 7950GT is faster, but it also costs a little more. This is a more direct competitor to the GT in terms of price and significantly faster than either of them.

 

[pkilway01]

Very true, but I KNOW that those XT's use a ton of power. I'd be inclined to get a new psu if I went the XT route, and I want to avoid springing for a new psu at the moment.

But I was contemplating that X1950 XT as it's the BEST performer under $200 now period, expecially in DX9 games.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: CP5670

The techs there, were not only a bit "stuffy", insisted that the X1950 Pro NEEDED at least 30Amps on the +12v rail/PSU 450 Watts or greater (HIS recommends in the manual for their X1950 Pro a PSU 400 Watts or greater, and that's it) . Which I still think is rediculous.

You can ignore them. They're just covering all the generic, crap quality units out there with that recommendation. That Tagan should have no problems with it. For reference, the system in my signature uses about 230W on full load once the PSU's efficiency is factored in.

Apart from that, the 7950GT is faster, but it also costs a little more. This is a more direct competitor to the GT in terms of price and faster than either of them.

I would go for the X1950XT. It should be faster (sometimes slightly, depending on game) than the 7950GT and is only $10 more.

The X1950 Pro is a great card, but it's not as fast as the 7950GT... it's more of a competitor to the 7900GS. For $25 more, you might as well buy the X1950XT, as it's going to be a big improvement over the X1950 Pro.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: pkilway01
Very true, but I KNOW that those XT's use a ton of power. I'd be inclined to get a new psu if I went the XT route, and I want to avoid springing for a new psu at the moment.

But I was contemplating that X1950 XT as it's the BEST performer under $200 now period, expecially in DX9 games.

Well, as I said, you almost certainly won't need a new PSU for any of these cards. I have a 520W Modstream in my other system, which I believe is a rebadge of the same model you have, and I know it runs my X1900XTX fine (had to use it briefly once when my main PSU died).

 

[Scougar]

You can get for £25 the ThermalTake Power Express board that ONLY powers a dual graphic card setup, instead of buying a new psu. This will save you buying a new PSU.

Bottomline: 1950pro is much better in most games than the 7950gt, and the 1950pro can be bought for about £83 GBP brand new. (have seen it advertised at $150 dollars on us sites).

You could take the risk running it on you existing PSU but you never know.

Lastly.. if you get issues with the pro.. try altering your pci express (if your not on agp) frequency to 99/101 or anything upto 110mhz, as they can wierdly be fussy at the standard setting of 100mhz. ALso.. aim a fan at the VRM on the card (a cheap silent 92mm will do the job).

7950gt will be less hassle from everything I have read.. will be severly underperform the x1950pro. Aim to get the 512mb version of the pro (can be got for the prices I mentioned).

Personally I have had Nvidia up to now and found there software/implementation better than ATi, and easier to install. However the extra effort is worth it, as my x1950xt runs superbly, and stalker looks awesome on the xt as well

EDIT: And yeah the guys on the sapphire site keep dissing other products rather than blaming the card, and it seems a bit 'cliquee' on there. They STILL after 5 days cannot respond to 2 requests to why I am unable to post messages after registering. Real good service. They blame the PSU straight away rather than try and get to the bottom of the real problem, such as things like that 101mhz tip (which completely solved my corruption issues and now runs like a dream ).

P.S. I just bought a Corsair HX 520, and can confirm it runs my xt just fine even overclocked, and still remains quiet (the psu fan i mean). Would recommend it.

Matthew

 

[40sTheme]

Since when has the Pro been better than the 7950GT in most games? Every benchmark I've seen shows the Pro only beating the GT in Oblivion and that's about it. I'd go for the X1950XT, same price if not cheaper than 7950 and outperforms it by a long shot. Your PSU will handle it.

 

[pkilway01]

I went a head and ordered the X1950 XT from Newegg. I'll let you all know how it gets along with my psu when it gets here.

 

[miker75]

Originally posted by: pkilway01
I went a head and ordered the X1950 XT from Newegg. I'll let you all know how it gets along with my psu when it gets here.

Bit late to ask.. but the 2600XT is about that price? (although I'm not sure how it stacks up against a X1950 XT, probably worse)...

 

[pkilway01]

Yep, so far every review has shown that the 2600XT is about as good as an X1650Pro in DX9. Until they get better drivers, it's really only a DX10 card or for HTPC card.

 

[GEOrifle]

Myself i like X1950PRO but warranty isn't good, just 1-2 year.
7950GT is litle worst in image quality but faster than X1950PRO and has LIFETIME warranty, that's why it cost $100 more.
And don't forget bouth of them are just Dx9 cards when Dx10 games are allready out and new Dx10 AGP cards will arrive end of thise month from ATI.
Someone sad HD 2400-2600 XT cards are 50% slower than X1950PRO......

 

[evolucion8]

The 7950GT tends to be slighly faster than the X1950PRO in 40% of games which are based on heavy textures like Prey, in 30% of games which are shader intensive the X1950PRO is faster, and the other 30% of games they trade blows. The difference is not enough to justify almost 100 bucks to go to the 7950GT which has a worse image quality and worse Shader Model 3.0 performance, better go to the X1950PRO or X1950XT which will smoke the 7950GT.

 

[Scougar]

Personally I used THG's VGA comparison chart (although I don't think it is in-depth enough ) and read lots of reviews on the 7950gt when I was gonna RMA my XT. Perhaps your referring to the 7950gt 512MB version and not the 7950GT 256MB version. I compare the pro 512mb to the gt 256mb based purely on there similar price. If you compare the pro to the 512mb gt then you may as well get the xt, save money and still kick the gt's ass

The 7950gt 256MB gets beaten by the x1950pro 512MB in most cases. Sure the 512MB does better, but for £50-60 ($100-$120) extra for the 512MB version of the GT, it isn't worth it. May as well consider the 1950xt 256mb or 512MB for those prices which wipe the floor with the gt.

Even if you overclock the gt it doesn't even come close to the xt, except in a few select games.

To the OP... if you get graphics issues.. try 99/101/110 mhz on the PCI-E bus with the xt, and secondly, you may have to download a video codec pack to get all video's to play properly (not a problem... look for k-lite codec pack which is free ) Lastly... just simply aim a quiet fan at the VRM's on the xt which will reduce the temps considerably. That's the only major flaw of the 1950 range.

Matthew

 

[pkilway01]

Ok, an update.

Monday:
I got the new X1950XT. I happily installed it, then notice HOLY ^*%* that thing is long. Had some trouble getting it seated (chipset heatsink/fan is right next to the PCI-E slot).

Then installed the new ATI drivers and ATITool. Then went to test the card to verify stability.

First, this card runs hot and the factory heatsink/fan is loud. I set the fan controls to 50% fan speed at 70C in the ATITool (this was an increase over the default). Then I ran 3D Mark 06. And my pc locked up every time. It would start with the video getting diag lines running through the display, then the display would go black with red/white/yellow boxes everywhere.

Tuesday:
Figured I'd give this another shot, thought maybe I had messed up seating the card. Uninstalled the display drivers and all ATI Tools. Powered off and unplugged the machine, unistalled the X800GTO2, installed the X1950XT, attached the PCI-E power cord, attached the DVI cord plugged it back in and hit the power button (I left the machine out of the desk and with the cover off to help rule out heat problems).

AND...

I heard the post beep, then nothing, the monitor light just blinking at me. Then I heard the Windows login sound (speakers were on), but still no video. Powered down, checked all connections, reseated card, powered up - same thing. Switched DVI ports, samething.

I purchased an Antec Trio 650 Watt PSU today at lunch so I could go home tonight and rule out the fact that this is a psu problem.

Anyone else have any other ideas?

 

[GEOrifle]

Interesting, how long is the card himself?


And check NEWEGG reviews on thise card, all of them, i gues some costumers have good
teaching skils then GeCube themself.

 

[firewolfsm]

The 7950GT is almost always faster than the X1950Pro, by a large margin too. The X1950Pro was designed to compete with the 7900GS where they trade wins depending on the game.

 

[pkilway01]

New PSU = same problem. RMA'ing the card as defective.

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: pkilway01
Ok, an update.

Monday:
I got the new X1950XT. I happily installed it, then notice HOLY ^*%* that thing is long. Had some trouble getting it seated (chipset heatsink/fan is right next to the PCI-E slot).

Then installed the new ATI drivers and ATITool. Then went to test the card to verify stability.

First, this card runs hot and the factory heatsink/fan is loud. I set the fan controls to 50% fan speed at 70C in the ATITool (this was an increase over the default). Then I ran 3D Mark 06. And my pc locked up every time. It would start with the video getting diag lines running through the display, then the display would go black with red/white/yellow boxes everywhere.

Tuesday:
Figured I'd give this another shot, thought maybe I had messed up seating the card. Uninstalled the display drivers and all ATI Tools. Powered off and unplugged the machine, unistalled the X800GTO2, installed the X1950XT, attached the PCI-E power cord, attached the DVI cord plugged it back in and hit the power button (I left the machine out of the desk and with the cover off to help rule out heat problems).

AND...

I heard the post beep, then nothing, the monitor light just blinking at me. Then I heard the Windows login sound (speakers were on), but still no video. Powered down, checked all connections, reseated card, powered up - same thing. Switched DVI ports, samething.

I purchased an Antec Trio 650 Watt PSU today at lunch so I could go home tonight and rule out the fact that this is a psu problem.

Anyone else have any other ideas?

Oh dear, I was too late to warn you....I had the X1950pro 512 from powercolour with know end of issues and also had to buy another psu.......in the end I returned the damn thing. Something about its power requirements that worries me....good luck with yours!

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: pkilway01
New PSU = same problem. RMA'ing the card as defective.

Just get the 7950gt for hassle free installation....ATI needs a kick in the ass. The 1950's and now the new 2900xt are impossibly power hungry which means alot of heat and alot of noise keeping them cool.

 

[bryanW1995]

I just got an x1950 xt 10 days ago. I have a very quiet system (corsair 520 hx, a few case fans, zalman 9700led etc) and the xt only becomes annoying when gpu gets over 88c (jumps from 36%at 80c to 50% at 88c). I installed an x1900xtx in a friend's build in january so I knew what to expect with this card, however. I have card card running at 668/1944 with no noise issues and no card issues.

 

[GEOrifle]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I just got an x1950 xt 10 days ago. I have a very quiet system (corsair 520 hx, a few case fans, zalman 9700led etc) and the xt only becomes annoying when gpu gets over 88c (jumps from 36%at 80c to 50% at 88c). I installed an x1900xtx in a friend's build in january so I knew what to expect with this card, however. I have card card running at 668/1944 with no noise issues and no card issues.

I guess you are talking about PCI version because SAPHIRE doesn't producing X1950XT AGP cards, just GeCube does. He got AGP slot.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: GEOrifle

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I just got an x1950 xt 10 days ago. I have a very quiet system (corsair 520 hx, a few case fans, zalman 9700led etc) and the xt only becomes annoying when gpu gets over 88c (jumps from 36%at 80c to 50% at 88c). I installed an x1900xtx in a friend's build in january so I knew what to expect with this card, however. I have card card running at 668/1944 with no noise issues and no card issues.

I guess you are talking about PCI version because SAPHIRE doesn't producing X1950XT AGP cards, just GeCube does. He got AGP slot.

huh, I must have read this wrong. Sapphire Radeon X800GTO2 256MB PCI-E (Modded to 16 Pipes, overclocked to 530 core/580 memory)

 

[CP5670]

The 50% speed may be a bit too low, although if your crashes are repeatable then it does sound like the card was defective. I use 80% on an X1900XTX and it works fine.

 

[pkilway01]

I think I'm righ back where I started.

Do I pay the NVidia price premium for a 7950GT ($199 with $40 mail-in rebate at Newegg) which performs slightly better then a X1950Pro, but gets trounced by the X1950XT?

Or do I buy an X1950Pro ($139 with $35 mail-in rebate at Newegg) knowing that the power consumption is lower then the X1950XT, for $50 less then the 7950GT?

Or do I say, I just got bad card and get a replacement for the X1950XT ($169 with $20 mail-in rebate at Newegg) and recommended spec's be damned - my Tagan 485W psu should be able to handle the damn card!?!

I have $200 to spend, I don't want to go over budget by needing to buy a new psu for a card/system that will only last me another 8-12 months.

 

[RussianSensation]

Why not just go for 7900GS 256mb Foxconn overclocked to 560/1400 for Link

It will be as fast as X1950Pro and you can probably overclock it a bit more. It has a larger fan than 7900GS stock units which means it'll be a little quieter.

Xbitlabs has a review of 7900GS TOP clocked at 590/1440 - 7900GS OC vs. X1950Pro