(You can't) Watchi this documentary on the history of the Crips and Bloods gangs

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Give me a thousand non-black kids, and let me put them into a world where there's been little but a history of gang violence for decades, put them into broken homes where the only real social strructure avilable to them are the gangs, where their whole lives are quite possibly spent only seeing this sick gang world in one small part of one city, and guess what, I'll show you people who don't do that well, too, who become 'part of the problem'.

Like I said, sh*t family makes sh*t kids, it's no great surprise at all. How to fix it? Who knows, I avoid such things by living in the suburbs where poor criminals people tend not to infect the rest of us with their bullsh*t.

Birth control in the water? Perhaps taking a test, having the ability to raise the child monetarily, having employment.

I know environment plays a role, but if were the only role, then there would never be stories of those that lived in the same conditions and made something of themselves.

Gang members know right from wrong. They choose wrong. Just because you grew up in poverty and without a father, does not justify the heinous crimes these wastes of air engage in.

Go ask a family member of a victim who has been raped or murdered and ask if they could just forgive and understand, because the perp did not live in a nicer home growing up nor went to boy scouts.

No, no, no...all the world's problems are the fault of whitey.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Give me a thousand non-black kids, and let me put them into a world where there's been little but a history of gang violence for decades, put them into broken homes where the only real social strructure avilable to them are the gangs, where their whole lives are quite possibly spent only seeing this sick gang world in one small part of one city, and guess what, I'll show you people who don't do that well, too, who become 'part of the problem'.

Like I said, sh*t family makes sh*t kids, it's no great surprise at all. How to fix it? Who knows, I avoid such things by living in the suburbs where poor criminals people tend not to infect the rest of us with their bullsh*t.

Birth control in the water? Perhaps taking a test, having the ability to raise the child monetarily, having employment.

I know environment plays a role, but if were the only role, then there would never be stories of those that lived in the same conditions and made something of themselves.

Gang members know right from wrong. They choose wrong. Just because you grew up in poverty and without a father, does not justify the heinous crimes these wastes of air engage in.

Go ask a family member of a victim who has been raped or murdered and ask if they could just forgive and understand, because the perp did not live in a nicer home growing up nor went to boy scouts.

You would benefit from the film, I suspect. Let's be clear on the boy scout thing - no one is saying 'because they could not join the scouts, gang violence is the justified result'.

The scout issue was simply piece of history that during a period of blacks doing pretty well and finally getting some of the American dream in the 50's, they wanted to have their children join the scouts and were turned away, and that was a direct cause of the black children instead forming their own 'clubs' that were the direct predecessors of the crips and bloods. The larger context of racist exclusion fed into the alienation of the gangs.

The film tells the story about how these clubs that were just for social reasons basically evolved into 'friendly competition' of fighting without weapons as the culture slid to that sort of activity, and traces the ongoing slide as the social situation deteriorated into where the violence became a lot more real and gun-based. It's *explaining* the history, not saying the scout exclusion makde the violence justified.

Whites have long been happy to ignore, and often condone and even cause, wrongs to blacks. You look at the sweet pictures of your grandparents and easily forget that they bought a house with a covenant restricting the sale of that home to exclude blacks from getting to buy a home they could afford in a nicer area to keep the 'dirty blacks out of their community'.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: shiner

No, no, no...all the world's problems are the fault of whitey.

If I can borrow Mani's post:

This pretty much summarizes the problem with the republican party. Impatience, mischaracterization and contempt for information that may question their narrow worldview.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: shiner

No, no, no...all the world's problems are the fault of whitey.

I have to agree with you on this. Start up the FEMA camps.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: shiner

No, no, no...all the world's problems are the fault of whitey.

If I can borrow Mani's post:

This pretty much summarizes the problem with the republican party. Impatience, mischaracterization and contempt for information that may question their narrow worldview.

Sort of like you being, to quote yllus, "Full of unwarranted egotism and a strident belief that critical analysis of one's own ideas is wholly unnecessary."

 

[n yusef]

shiner, you talk about critical analysis. Why don't you try it?

Why not put yourself in the shoes of a gang member for just a second. Why not try to understand his life, his thoughts, his motivations, his actions. Why not try to see the humanity that is concealed when you frame every issue in terms of right and wrong, good versus evil?

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: n yusef
shiner, you talk about critical analysis. Why don't you try it?

Why not put yourself in the shoes of a gang member for just a second. Why not try to understand his life, his thoughts, his motivations, his actions. Why not try to see the humanity that is concealed when you frame every issue in terms of right and wrong, good versus evil?

Ahh yes. The old "if you could only understand where the <insert name here> comes from you wouldn't be so quick to blame" argument.

Sorry. That is part of the whole victim mentality game and I refuse to participate in it.

I'm sure there are some gang members that felt compelled to join up due to peer pressure, but the vast majority are just lawless thugs who prefer that lifestyle to one of being a law abiding citizen.

Is it the fault of society? Is it the fault of their environment? Probably a smidgen of both, but in the end the fault for their situation lies squarely on them and nobody else.

If I drive into the river on the way home tonight it isn't the river's fault, it is mine.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Does it mention that the CIA put crack in the neighborhoods in the 80s?

No. It does discuss the terrible impact of the crack showing up, but does not get into the role of the government in it.

Does it mention that no one put a crack pipe in the blacks hands and told them to smoke it? Does it mention that blacks could do better for themselves if they just tried?
The whole "broken home" thing is a fucking bullshit excuse. All of the "excuses" for the situations are just that, excuses. What's that you say, they didn't have any opportunity to do better because they were black or a minority.
Today we hear about Sonya Sotamajor (sp???) and her being poor growing up and now she is a candidate for the Supreme Court. Clarenece Thomas gre up dirt fucking poor and he's on the Supreme Court. Your Lord and Saviour Obama wasn't rich growing up and he's the President. Collin Powel, Condolezza Rice, the list goes on and on. We only hear about the poor black people that have it so bad, but most of the time never think of all the other "minorities" that have had it bad in this country, but they were able to raise themselves up and make something. We have hispanics everywhere and while the illegals are a drain on the system, the legals or Americans with hispanic origins work and live just like everyone else. The Chinese had it bad in the 1800's and they made better lives for themselves. Let's not forget that even white people have had it pretty fucking bad in America. In pre Civil War times, if a job was to dangerous instead of having a slave do it they hired an Irishman to do it.

Watch Cops some time and you'll see that the "poor ghetto, gang" thing isn't just a black issue Or if you're watching History already watch Gangland. There is some scary ass shit that all races are into gang wise.

Always good to hear what the Klan has to say about things, thanks for posting.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain


Always good to hear what the Klan has to say about things, thanks for posting.

Ah yes, the oldest trick in the book to deflect talk of personal responsibility: Cry racism to scare people away.

 

[TruePaige]

Sure, why work hard and be a good person to pull yourself out of the ghetto when the world will make excuses for how you are a poor oppressed soul who was forced to become a murderous piece of scum gang banger.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: n yusef
shiner, you talk about critical analysis. Why don't you try it?

Why not put yourself in the shoes of a gang member for just a second. Why not try to understand his life, his thoughts, his motivations, his actions. Why not try to see the humanity that is concealed when you frame every issue in terms of right and wrong, good versus evil?

There will be no discussion until you fucks pull your pants up. Men don't walk around with
their pants hanging down around their balls.

 

[sandorski]

Republican Meltdown 09 24/7 365

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Whites have long been happy to ignore, and often condone and even cause, wrongs to blacks. You look at the sweet pictures of your grandparents and easily forget that they bought a house with a covenant restricting the sale of that home to exclude blacks from getting to buy a home they could afford in a nicer area to keep the 'dirty blacks out of their community'.

Wow. Pretty big assumption you're making there.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: shiner

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: shiner

No, no, no...all the world's problems are the fault of whitey.

If I can borrow Mani's post:

This pretty much summarizes the problem with the republican party. Impatience, mischaracterization and contempt for information that may question their narrow worldview.

Sort of like you being, to quote yllus, "Full of unwarranted egotism and a strident belief that critical analysis of one's own ideas is wholly unnecessary."

Read up to the word Yllus. You are well aware not to quote him if you want me to read your post. Don't quote him to me again.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sure, why work hard and be a good person to pull yourself out of the ghetto when the world will make excuses for how you are a poor oppressed soul who was forced to become a murderous piece of scum gang banger.

Well when you have basically zero opportunity to get an education, to get a job, or to do anything other than deal drugs or join a gang... how do you think the majority of people would turn out?

I'm going to guess you didn't grow up in a ghetto. I'm going to guess that your life was, compared to these people, FULL of opportunities to lead a good life. Your answer is fucking bullshit because you just assume that everyone is like you. The folks who join these gangs grow up in terrible families with no role models. They don't get any positive reinforcement and the only people encouraging them are other guys encouraging them to pick up a gun.

You would be fucking astounded to realize how much a support network matters to producing men and women who are respectable, respected, hard-working, and humble. It's an absolutely critical stage of psychological development.

If you saw the documentary, look at a lot of these kids. One of them says at one point that he believes he is a good person, but he's forced to do bad things, to become "hard" to survive. That's the truth. These guys are just kids who are scared shitless and have no opportunities beyond becoming criminals.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Sure, why work hard and be a good person to pull yourself out of the ghetto when the world will make excuses for how you are a poor oppressed soul who was forced to become a murderous piece of scum gang banger.

Well when you have basically zero opportunity to get an education, to get a job, or to do anything other than deal drugs or join a gang... how do you think the majority of people would turn out?

I'm going to guess you didn't grow up in a ghetto. I'm going to guess that your life was, compared to these people, FULL of opportunities to lead a good life. Your answer is fucking bullshit because you just assume that everyone is like you. The folks who join these gangs grow up in terrible families with no role models. They don't get any positive reinforcement and the only people encouraging them are other guys encouraging them to pick up a gun.

You would be fucking astounded to realize how much a support network matters to producing men and women who are respectable, respected, hard-working, and humble. It's an absolutely critical stage of psychological development.

If you saw the documentary, look at a lot of these kids. One of them says at one point that he believes he is a good person, but he's forced to do bad things, to become "hard" to survive. That's the truth. These guys are just kids who are scared shitless and have no opportunities beyond becoming criminals.

Here is an idea... Stay in school. Don't have babies when you are a kid. Get good grades. Don't join a gang. Don't do drugs. It's the parents fault too, pumping out like a baby factory to get welfare money, not watching their kids, doing drugs, letting them run around.

Lots of people have gotten out of the ghetto and you know how they did it? Well it wasn't riding the train of excuses you made for them.

The people who get out of the ghetto KNOW they have a disadvantage but work hard to overcome it. Society even helps them with programs like (for the minorities) Affirmative Action. For everyone from the ghetto there are scholarships that are very underutilized for their regions, so easy to get with even modest grades, support networks, AmeriCorp, JobCorp, free insurance & food stamps / housing assistance / heating assistance to help you get on your feet.

Also, you can join the military, free housing, training, education, food, friendship, network of good, hard working people, what is so bad about that?

Hell, I've known quite a few people from single parent families that went into AmeriCorp, got to get out in the world, meet good people and get an education.

Not able to work and handle school at the same time? That's okay, get some student loans, go live in a dorm, and study your ass off for a brighter tomorrow.

Even out of the very few of the overall opportunities I've mentioned, you could take your pick and get out of the ghetto.

It's that self defeating, blame everyone else for your mistakes attitude that keeps you in the ghetto, and nothing else.



There are a MILLION opportunities.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: shiner

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: shiner

No, no, no...all the world's problems are the fault of whitey.

If I can borrow Mani's post:

This pretty much summarizes the problem with the republican party. Impatience, mischaracterization and contempt for information that may question their narrow worldview.

Sort of like you being, to quote yllus, "Full of unwarranted egotism and a strident belief that critical analysis of one's own ideas is wholly unnecessary."

Read up to the word Yllus. You are well aware not to quote him if you want me to read your post. Don't quote him to me again.

So, in summation what you are saying is "Waaaaaaaaaa yllus busted me on something and hurt my widdle feelings. Waaaaaaa!"

Correct?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: shiner
So, in summation what you are saying is "Waaaaaaaaaa yllus busted me on something and hurt my widdle feelings. Waaaaaaa!"

Correct?

No, you can't read, can you? I said Yllus crossed the line and I'm not planning to read his posts further.

I've long said I have some tolerance for polite cluelessness, or somewhat rude worthwhile comments, but not both clueless and rude.

You have shown yourself to be a little yapping pest bringing it up again and again and again. You want to lie regarding his post? Do it elsewhere. You're one step from the same.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Here is an idea... Stay in school. Don't have babies when you are a kid. Get good grades. Don't join a gang. Don't do drugs. It's the parents fault too, pumping out like a baby factory to get welfare money, not watching their kids, doing drugs, letting them run around.

Lots of people have gotten out of the ghetto and you know how they did it? Well it wasn't riding the train of excuses you made for them.

The people who get out of the ghetto KNOW they have a disadvantage but work hard to overcome it. Society even helps them with programs like (for the minorities) Affirmative Action. For everyone from the ghetto there are scholarships that are very underutilized for their regions, so easy to get with even modest grades, support networks, AmeriCorp, JobCorp, free insurance & food stamps / housing assistance / heating assistance to help you get on your feet.

Also, you can join the military, free housing, training, education, food, friendship, network of good, hard working people, what is so bad about that?

Hell, I've known quite a few people from single parent families that went into AmeriCorp, got to get out in the world, meet good people and get an education.

Not able to work and handle school at the same time? That's okay, get some student loans, go live in a dorm, and study your ass off for a brighter tomorrow.

Even out of the very few of the overall opportunities I've mentioned, you could take your pick and get out of the ghetto.

It's that self defeating, blame everyone else for your mistakes attitude that keeps you in the ghetto, and nothing else.



There are a MILLION opportunities.

Textbook right-wing ideology, filled with well-intentioned ignorance. Very unhelpful, other than for avoiding the issue to blame the blacks. Who cares about actually solving it.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: shiner
So, in summation what you are saying is "Waaaaaaaaaa yllus busted me on something and hurt my widdle feelings. Waaaaaaa!"

Correct?

No, you can't read, can you? I said Yllus crossed the line and I'm not planning to read his posts further.

I've long said I have some tolerance for polite cluelessness, or somewhat rude worthwhile comments, but not both clueless and rude.

You have shown yourself to be a little yapping pest bringing it up again and again and again. You want to lie regarding his post? Do it elsewhere. You're one step from the same.

Oh no...the arrogant poster thinks I'm annoying.

Every post you make is just proving his point about your arrogance and unwillingness to even consider that your opinion is incorrect.

 

[Ichigo]

People who haven't watched the film in its entirety really have nothing to contribute to this thread. You can't refute the claims made by the film properly if you haven't heard them properly.