(You can't) Watchi this documentary on the history of the Crips and Bloods gangs

[Craig234]

Edit: The film appears not to be available to watch online. Sorry for the trouble. Catch it if you see it on TV.

Link

I decided to post minimal commentary for this documentary - I just recommend watching it and it'll provide a very useful explanation and history of South Central LA blacks.

It'll be interesting to see, if people watch it, whether they get the lessons from it that I'd hope the film delivers.

I will add this: it's interesting how many liberal issues are directly shown to have contributed to the 'problems'.

- Segregation directly leading to concentration of disenfranchised blacks
- Racism denying blacks spots in the scout programs leading to 'alternative groups'
- Wrongful violence of war culture in Vietnam (with blacks disproportionately serving) leading to violence-desensitized blacks returning from combat
- Massive programs to skyrocket the number of blacks in prison destroying black families and black opportunities for released blacks
- Lack of employment opportunities contributing to the powverty that breeds problems and increases the drug trade
- Racist police policies (in the 60's) constantly harrassing blacks for no reason creating a culture of conflict and disrespect for the law

 

[sandorski]

Thanks. Wanted to complain that the previous thread didn't include the Link.

 

[BarrySotero]

Any mention of the black family being destroyed by white libs? Coming from broken families with no dads and no love is what helps make gangs seem family like to members. Black illegitimacy began to skyrocket in the 60's - after all the liberal sweetness and light made blacks into political tool. This film sounds cliched and narrow in all the usual ways.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero

Any mention of the black family being destroyed by white libs? Coming from broken families with no dads and no love is what helps make gangs seem family like to members. Black illegitimacy began to skyrocket in the 60's - after all the liberal sweetness and light made blacks into political tool. This film sounds cliched and narrow in all the usual ways.

Tell me more about things you know nothing about. How is that new movie that hasn't come out yet? What do you think of Obama's July 2009 speech?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero

Any mention of the black family being destroyed by white libs? Coming from broken families with no dads and no love is what helps make gangs seem family like to members. Black illegitimacy began to skyrocket in the 60's - after all the liberal sweetness and light made blacks into political tool. This film sounds cliched and narrow in all the usual ways.

Awwww, isn't it cute how BarrySotero thinks he's like one of the grownups in here?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Does it mention that the CIA put crack in the neighborhoods in the 80s?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Does it mention that the CIA put crack in the neighborhoods in the 80s?

No. It does discuss the terrible impact of the crack showing up, but does not get into the role of the government in it.

 

[sandorski]

hmm, how do you watch it? Got a Preview and can't figure out how to get more...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: sandorski
hmm, how do you watch it? Got a Preview and can't figure out how to get more...

Hm, I may have to apologize if it's not watchable online; I watched it on TV, and found the link saying 'watch the film' but did not test it. It's PBS, seemed it'd be free to watch.

Edit: yes, it only goes to a preview. That's too bad, it's a very good film, much better than the preview that makes it look only about the gang violence.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: sandorski
hmm, how do you watch it? Got a Preview and can't figure out how to get more...

Hm, I may have to apologize if it's not watchable online; I watched it on TV, and found the link saying 'watch the film' but did not test it. It's PBS, seemed it'd be free to watch.

Oh no dude....tsk tsk tsk

I hope they rebroadcast it. Looks interesting.

 

[Double Trouble]

I happened to catch a part of this on PBS. It immediately pushes heavily into the whole victim culture, how it must all be the fault of the evil whites, how the black community and culture does not share any of the blame etc etc. Typical liberal drivel, I turned it off.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
I happened to catch a part of this on PBS. It immediately pushes heavily into the whole victim culture, how it must all be the fault of the evil whites, how the black community and culture does not share any of the blame etc etc. Typical liberal drivel, I turned it off.

Having seen this documentary, I can conclusively say that either A) You tuned in half way, watched 30 seconds, got into a huff about something and crawled back into your hole where nobody challenges you to reconsider your thoughts on a subject, or B) You didn't watch any of it and are just trolling this thread.

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Slick5150

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
I happened to catch a part of this on PBS. It immediately pushes heavily into the whole victim culture, how it must all be the fault of the evil whites, how the black community and culture does not share any of the blame etc etc. Typical liberal drivel, I turned it off.

Having seen this documentary, I can conclusively say that either A) You tuned in half way, watched 30 seconds, got into a huff about something and crawled back into your hole where nobody challenges you to reconsider your thoughts on a subject, or B) You didn't watch any of it and are just trolling this thread.

Which part of "caught part of it" wasn't clear? I caught a small part, enough to see that there was some interesting background info that I did not know before, and that it was pushing the usual drivel.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: Slick5150

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
I happened to catch a part of this on PBS. It immediately pushes heavily into the whole victim culture, how it must all be the fault of the evil whites, how the black community and culture does not share any of the blame etc etc. Typical liberal drivel, I turned it off.

Having seen this documentary, I can conclusively say that either A) You tuned in half way, watched 30 seconds, got into a huff about something and crawled back into your hole where nobody challenges you to reconsider your thoughts on a subject, or B) You didn't watch any of it and are just trolling this thread.

Which part of "caught part of it" wasn't clear? I caught a small part, enough to see that there was some interesting background info that I did not know before, and that it was pushing the usual drivel.

This was your original post:
"It immediately pushes heavily into the whole victim culture, how it must all be the fault of the evil whites, how the black community and culture does not share any of the blame etc etc. Typical liberal drivel, I turned it off."

No, it doesn't immediately push the whole victim culture. You may have turned it on at some point that you felt was doing that, but having seen the whole movie, you would have understood that you were most likely taking that specific part out of the larger context.

So, my point being, instead of ignorantly dismissing something as "typical liberal drivel", try informing yourself on it first. The scary thing is you might learn something.

I'm not suggesting you have to LIKE the documentary. I thought it was ok personally, but would have rather seen it go deeper into certain parts and skip over others, but it was far from "liberal drivel".

 

[Craig234]

Slick, I'm glad someone saw it, and glad you liked it - I thought it was great, though your feedback that it could have been better might always be right. It's not an encyxlopedic last word on the issue, it's opening a door for people to get a little truth about the situation, and I think it really does that well, better than any other film I've seen.

I might be a little more attuned than most in one way, in that I grew up near that area - but that doesn't mean I understood blacks' views, it means I understand the whites' views.

I understand the sort of 'those people' mentality of a mix of sort of seething hatred and disgust and fear even while the whites fully embrace King's stated doctringe of color-blind.

People really learn to have the two co-exist, on the one hand passionately believing it's absolutely wrong to discriminate against a black person based on race, but on the other to not be able to square that very well with the actual black people living in the South Central area, and just sort of resenting them, blaming them pretty much completely and struggling to reconcile the 'theory' of color-blind and the perceived 'reality' that 'those people' are only seen getting welfar and committing crimes. The area is highly avoided.

Gangs are really a mystery to whites who can't understand them as being much different than enemy units - it's alla bout the 'threat' they pose, and the commonly accepted view is that while 'we're good people' in providing some social programs, 'those people' are mostly black holes for 'gimme gimme' mentality, and this creates an appetite for the right-wing message that money for them actually causes harm rather than helping - which just happens to save us money to take that view.

The movie does little to discuss the prevailing white views etc., but does provide a real service to the whites in showing them a lot of truth and humanzing people.

Whites in the area really are mystified by the motives of a lot of black actions, other than 'some sort of mix of poverty and culture seems to cause irrational violence'.

The movie just nailed the more accurate picture of the people and how the bad policies of whites in the past really did play a criticial role in the problems.

One critic above suggested the movie whitewashes any 'blame' from blacks - and he's quite wrong, a major theme of the documentary is the gang members being "misguided".

It's extremely critical of the mentality of the gag members, showing the tragedy and idiocy, with a member describing how they adopt an 'animal mentality' in the gangs.

People will only learn the info if they see it though, and it's too bad they can't easily do that. It's on 'torrent', but I'm against that, tempting as it is for this cause.

 

[OCGuy]

Ah, so they are all racist uneducated assholes that deserve prison because of whitey, not because of any personal decisions.


You are about as bleeding-heart as they come.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Does it mention that the CIA put crack in the neighborhoods in the 80s?

No. It does discuss the terrible impact of the crack showing up, but does not get into the role of the government in it.

Does it mention that no one put a crack pipe in the blacks hands and told them to smoke it? Does it mention that blacks could do better for themselves if they just tried?
The whole "broken home" thing is a fucking bullshit excuse. All of the "excuses" for the situations are just that, excuses. What's that you say, they didn't have any opportunity to do better because they were black or a minority.
Today we hear about Sonya Sotamajor (sp???) and her being poor growing up and now she is a candidate for the Supreme Court. Clarenece Thomas gre up dirt fucking poor and he's on the Supreme Court. Your Lord and Saviour Obama wasn't rich growing up and he's the President. Collin Powel, Condolezza Rice, the list goes on and on. We only hear about the poor black people that have it so bad, but most of the time never think of all the other "minorities" that have had it bad in this country, but they were able to raise themselves up and make something. We have hispanics everywhere and while the illegals are a drain on the system, the legals or Americans with hispanic origins work and live just like everyone else. The Chinese had it bad in the 1800's and they made better lives for themselves. Let's not forget that even white people have had it pretty fucking bad in America. In pre Civil War times, if a job was to dangerous instead of having a slave do it they hired an Irishman to do it.

Watch Cops some time and you'll see that the "poor ghetto, gang" thing isn't just a black issue Or if you're watching History already watch Gangland. There is some scary ass shit that all races are into gang wise.

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
I happened to catch a part of this on PBS. It immediately pushes heavily into the whole victim culture, how it must all be the fault of the evil whites, how the black community and culture does not share any of the blame etc etc. Typical liberal drivel, I turned it off.

This pretty much summarizes the problem with the republican party. Impatience, mischaracterization and contempt for information that may question their narrow worldview.

 

[StageLeft]

Actually based on the first post in this thread, I think Barry's response quite fitting. Not really interested. Black families are grossly overrepresented in broken family statistics. The kids are being born without dads, without working parents or positive role models, the core of a child's life--their family--is rotten and thus it's difficult to grow a good apple.

It's on 'torrent', but I'm against that, tempting as it is for this cause.

Well, I rather doubt that, considering you just mentioned it, an ostensible recommendation to us to get it, right?

The movie just nailed the more accurate picture of the people and how the bad policies of whites in the past really did play a criticial role in the problems.

I'm sure there is something to blame. I've not looked at the numbers, but I believe that in the last 50 years the family unit of blacks has fallen apart. I bet you'll find that this disintegration vs even half a century ago correlates nicely with their high crime rates and poor showing in schools, jobs, etc. I think you will also find that Latino family units are a heck of a lot more cohesive and that Latinos are substantially less likely, per capita/socio-economic class, etc. to be in prison. It's not whitey that's making 70% of black kids be born out of wedlock and half of them growing up without a father around.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Does it mention that the CIA put crack in the neighborhoods in the 80s?

No. It does discuss the terrible impact of the crack showing up, but does not get into the role of the government in it.

Does it mention that no one put a crack pipe in the blacks hands and told them to smoke it? Does it mention that blacks could do better for themselves if they just tried?

Yes. It also talks about a lot things you are ignorant about and too lazy to get informed on while you go on message boards spouting yoiur harmful ignorance.

The whole "broken home" thing is a fucking bullshit excuse.

No, you are an ignorant idiot. I could say that in more words, but why?

All of the "excuses" for the situations are just that, excuses. What's that you say, they didn't have any opportunity to do better because they were black or a minority.

The film was made for you. Like the black who chooses crack, you make the wrong choice and stick to the easy answer.

Today we hear about Sonya Sotamajor (sp???) and her being poor growing up and now she is a candidate for the Supreme Court. Clarenece Thomas gre up dirt fucking poor and he's on the Supreme Court.

There's a guy who lost a limb and still competes in a sport that makes his achievment remarkable. Just not many guys who have lost limbs who do so.

If you add a 50% overhead to a group, you will see 50% of the people get past it who would have. Ifyou add a 90% barrier, you will see 10% get past it.

You're trying to tell a lie here, that a barrier that has a 90% effect on a group isn't a barrier because of the 10%. Colin Powell proves there is nothing wrong for blacks.

Except that Colin Powell says you are wrong. People who have a clue say you are wrong. But you are too ignorant not to just spout what you spout.

Your Lord and Saviour Obama

You're an idiot.

wasn't rich growing up and he's the President. Collin Powel, Condolezza Rice

That's, uh, "Colin", "Powell", "Condoleezza", bur I understand, all the black names look alike to you.

the list goes on and on. We only hear about the poor black people that have it so bad, but most of the time never think of all the other "minorities" that have had it bad in this country, but they were able to raise themselves up and make something.

The social science of the trailer park speaks out.

We have hispanics everywhere and while the illegals are a drain on the system

Except that the fact is they are a net plus to the economy, but you are too ignorant to know that and too lazy and lacking in any moral interest in the truth to care.

the legals or Americans with hispanic origins work and live just like everyone else. The Chinese had it bad in the 1800's and they made better lives for themselves. Let's not forget that even white people have had it pretty fucking bad in America. In pre Civil War times, if a job was to dangerous instead of having a slave do it they hired an Irishman to do it.

All true, and does nothing to change your ignorance about the black situation (or to defend your implication that the discriminatory policies were really not too harmful).

Watch Cops some time and you'll see that the "poor ghetto, gang" thing isn't just a black issue Or if you're watching History already watch Gangland. There is some scary ass shit that all races are into gang wise.

It's a waste of my time to give you the facts showing you how wrong you are, you couldn't care less.

The fact is that the sociology is a bit complicated, and that means you are not interested in it. You want only the simplest information, whether it's a lie or not.

Things like how broken homes affect the criminality of the children, things like how structural legacy effect of decades of racism cause broken homes, and so on, wasted.

You're basically happy to ignore the problem, leave it along, simply blame the victims and comfortably make sure that your only priority, avoiding tax dollars spent on them, occurs.

So, get out of my thread, please. You'd be welcome if you had any interest in the truth. But you don't, IMO. You want to spout ignorance, so go make a thread of your own for it.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Well, I rather doubt that, considering you just mentioned it, an ostensible recommendation to us to get it, right?

Wrong. You seem to be projecting some bad ethics. I mean what I said. In fact, I did not mention my opposition to torrent initially in discussing my mistake about the film being available out of a general reluctance to even mention it for the reason you gave, but the fact is, I don't think that there's anyone who would use torrent here who doesn't already know torrent might be an option for this. Id I'd posted a link saying "I'd rather you not click this link", you would have a point, but you do not.

The movie just nailed the more accurate picture of the people and how the bad policies of whites in the past really did play a criticial role in the problems.

I'm sure there is something to blame. I've not looked at the numbers, but I believe that in the last 50 years the family unit of blacks has fallen apart. I bet you'll find that this disintegration vs even half a century ago correlates nicely with their high crime rates and poor showing in schools, jobs, etc. I think you will also find that Latino family units are a heck of a lot more cohesive and that Latinos are substantially less likely, per capita/socio-economic class, etc. to be in prison. It's not whitey that's making 70% of black kids be born out of wedlock and half of them growing up without a father around.

You appear not to understand why this situation is happening, which the film would help you get a taste of.

Give me a thousand non-black kids, and let me put them into a world where there's been little but a history of gang violence for decades, put them into broken homes where the only real social strructure avilable to them are the gangs, where their whole lives are quite possibly spent only seeing this sick gang world in one small part of one city, and guess what, I'll show you people who don't do that well, too, who become 'part of the problem'.

They live in an isolated alternative culture that has its roots in the segregation and discrimination of the past. It takes effort to change that, with a warped economy where drug dealing and crime are vatly overweighted as opportunities for them, the former largely based on white society's demand for drugs while prohibiting them.

 

[1prophet]

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.mojvideo.com/video-crips-and-bloods-made-in-america-1-4/15de54a38bf6f50dd6b3">Crips And Bloods: Made In America 1/4
</a>

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.mojvideo.com/video-crips-and-bloods-made-in-america-2-4/6a445b42f5050c2a5c2d">Crips And Bloods: Made In America 2/4
</a>

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.mojvideo.com/video-crips-and-bloods-made-in-america-3-4/fbd0ef82260b425ccebe">Crips And Bloods: Made In America 3/4
</a>

Crips And Bloods: Made In America 4/4

 

[StageLeft]

Give me a thousand non-black kids, and let me put them into a world where there's been little but a history of gang violence for decades, put them into broken homes where the only real social strructure avilable to them are the gangs, where their whole lives are quite possibly spent only seeing this sick gang world in one small part of one city, and guess what, I'll show you people who don't do that well, too, who become 'part of the problem'.

Like I said, sh*t family makes sh*t kids, it's no great surprise at all. How to fix it? Who knows, I avoid such things by living in the suburbs where poor criminals people tend not to infect the rest of us with their bullsh*t.

 

[Craig234]

nm. Reptition of a previous post's message. I reluctantly would like the torrent links not posted, while appreciating the thought I assume was behind them.

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Give me a thousand non-black kids, and let me put them into a world where there's been little but a history of gang violence for decades, put them into broken homes where the only real social strructure avilable to them are the gangs, where their whole lives are quite possibly spent only seeing this sick gang world in one small part of one city, and guess what, I'll show you people who don't do that well, too, who become 'part of the problem'.

Like I said, sh*t family makes sh*t kids, it's no great surprise at all. How to fix it? Who knows, I avoid such things by living in the suburbs where poor criminals people tend not to infect the rest of us with their bullsh*t.

Birth control in the water? Perhaps taking a test, having the ability to raise the child monetarily, having employment.

I know environment plays a role, but if were the only role, then there would never be stories of those that lived in the same conditions and made something of themselves.

Gang members know right from wrong. They choose wrong. Just because you grew up in poverty and without a father, does not justify the heinous crimes these wastes of air engage in.

Go ask a family member of a victim who has been raped or murdered and ask if they could just forgive and understand, because the perp did not live in a nicer home growing up nor went to boy scouts.