You cant filabuster the repeal of Obamacare?

[fskimospy]

The fact of the matter here is that you don't know what's going to be proposed and to frame what you don't know as "an awful lot like the ACA" is speculative horseshit.

How about we wait and see?

It's not speculative horseshit, it's basic logic:

If you want a market based system that bans underwriting for pre-existing conditions then you need a mandate to ensure that people don't only sign up when sick. If you have a mandate that means some people can't afford it so you need subsidies. That's the basic three legged stool of the ACA and any market based solution is going to look a lot like it.

Not sure why conservatives are having such trouble understanding this other than the fact that it's embarrassing to realize that your health plan will have to be similar to the thing you had convinced yourself was evil.

Of course if you want to ditch coverage for people with pre-existing conditions you can totally change things. That's not what conservatives promised though. They said they had a mysterious better way for similar coverage at better cost in the works that they have just never found time to reveal in the last half decade or so.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Good thing it's not some libtard pushing it, amiright?

A bipartisan approach is desirable for legislation of such significance. Surely even "libtards" like you have learned something by now.

 

[agent00f]

A bipartisan approach is desirable for legislation of such significance. Surely even "libtards" like you have learned something by now.

Hypocrisy personified.

 

[UberNeuman]

Hypocrisy personified.

He's still swooning over all those jerbs that Trump didn't save at Ford.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

It's not speculative horseshit, it's basic logic:

If you want a market based system that bans underwriting for pre-existing conditions then you need a mandate to ensure that people don't only sign up when sick. If you have a mandate that means some people can't afford it so you need subsidies. That's the basic three legged stool of the ACA and any market based solution is going to look a lot like it.

Not sure why conservatives are having such trouble understanding this other than the fact that it's embarrassing to realize that your health plan will have to be similar to the thing you had convinced yourself was evil.

Of course if you want to ditch coverage for people with pre-existing conditions you can totally change things. That's not what conservatives promised though. They said they had a mysterious better way for similar coverage at better cost in the works that they have just never found time to reveal in the last half decade or so.

And basic logic says that ACA was doomed to failure with the SCOTUS ruling. I know your champing at the bit to demonize the Republican plan...but maybe you should wait and see what they actually propose before looking like a complete hack. Fair enough?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Hypocrisy personified.

Idiot personified. There...take that! lol

 

[Brainonska511]

The fact of the matter here is that you don't know what's going to be proposed and to frame what you don't know as "an awful lot like the ACA" is speculative horseshit.

How about we wait and see before making sweeping statements?

Exactly. We don't know what's going to be proposed. How about they propose something comprehensive instead of a "let's break it first, then fix it later, maybe" approach?

 

[ivwshane]

Trump is the wild card. He's spoken glowingly about single payer just to get healthcare off businesses back. He stated last year whatever policy is adopted nobody will be left to die. Maybe it will take the Republicans to get us to single payer. Similar to how Nixon opened China.

And if they were to do that (which requires price controls to work btw), myself and Obama would fully support it.

Funny how the ACA and the current mess the repubs are in could have been avoided had they actually wanted to fix healthcare in the US when Obama was pushing for it.

Party before country!

 

[agent00f]

Idiot personified. There...take that! lol

Between the two of us, there's only one idiot too goddamn stupid to realize he's a conservative advocating for bipartisanship after what happened over this very legislation. I don't even think you're playing dumb here.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Exactly. We don't know what's going to be proposed. How about they propose something comprehensive instead of a "let's break it first, then fix it later, maybe" approach?

Probably is, what is in place right now sucks ass. It's expensive as hell and I am being forced to pay a $300 premium on my health care that I didn't need to in the past. The sooner we get to a less expensive structure, the better.

 

[Brainonska511]

Probably is, what is in place right now sucks ass. It's expensive as hell and I am being forced to pay a $300 premium on my health care that I didn't need to in the past. The sooner we get to a less expensive structure, the better.

What's in place now is better than what was in place before the ACA.

 

[DrunkenSano]

What's in place now is better than what was in place before the ACA.

I certainly don't see it. My cost shot up and my coverage is worse now.

 

[UberNeuman]

The GOP had seven years to, at the most, have a barebones plan/idea of what to do with the ACA. They have no excuse for lacking a plan at this point. Unless the plan is to kill the ACA and hope the poors don't punish the GOP for doing so.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Exactly. We don't know what's going to be proposed. How about they propose something comprehensive instead of a "let's break it first, then fix it later, maybe" approach?

I don't pretend to know the vast complexities involved or their reasoning. However, one thing I do know and that's if they don't fix it they're screwed politically for many, many years to come. "Libtards" should be elated....they now don't have to take the heat for the ultimate failure of ACA and a Republican fail would put them back in the game for 2018....a year where they're highly vulnerable in the Senate.

 

[Roflmouth]

The GOP had seven years to, at the most, have a barebones plan/idea of what to do with the ACA. They have no excuse for lacking a plan at this point. Unless the plan is to kill the ACA and hope the poors don't punish the GOP for doing so.

"The poors" (whoever they are) probably didn't like their ACA premiums skyrocketing over the last year.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I certainly don't see it. My cost shot up and my coverage is worse now.

Whatever happened to the $2,500 "savings" you were promised? But it would have been a lot worse without ACA...everybody knows this. Am I right?

 

[Brainonska511]

I certainly don't see it. My cost shot up and my coverage is worse now.

Costs have been going up for years and stories of people getting cut off from their insurance (as would happen pre-ACA when people got horribly sick) are down. The data shows that healthcare inflation is lower than before the ACA.

Before the ACA, individual coverage in NYS was so prohibitively expensive, many just got a craptastic catastrophic coverage plan that covered only things like hospitalization. Maybe my uncle wouldn't be 6' under if he had real access to something more comprehensive.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

"The poors" (whoever they are) probably didn't like their ACA premiums skyrocketing over the last year.

Subsidies for the 86% covered most all of the increases. It's really only the non-subsidized that got royally screwed.

 

[agent00f]

I don't pretend to know the vast complexities involved or their reasoning. However, one thing I do know and that's if they don't fix it they're screwed politically for many, many years to come. "Libtards" should be elated....they now don't have to take the heat for the ultimate failure of ACA and a Republican fail would put them back in the game for 2018....a year where they're highly vulnerable in the Senate.

I'm curious if you're aware Bill/Hillary first proposed single-payer, and that history which led to democrats passing the GOP alternative, and now people like you proclaiming what they do.

Keep in mind how the answer will make you look.

 

[fskimospy]

And basic logic says that ACA was doomed to failure with the SCOTUS ruling.

Huh? That makes zero sense. Basic logic definitely doesn't say that.

I know your champing at the bit to demonize the Republican plan...but maybe you should wait and see what they actually propose before looking like a complete hack. Fair enough?

You're the one that tried to pass off a plan as an alternative to the ACA that didn't remotely do what the ACA does so if either one of us is a hack it's you.

You seem to be mistaking me stating an objective fact with criticizing the Republican plan. If they want to accomplish the same goals as the ACA in a market based way then their plan, whatever it is, will look a lot like the ACA. I imagine this is intellectually uncomfortable for people who are trying to find a way to convince themselves to support whatever the Republicans do after years of saying the ACA was horrible, but such is life.

 

[First]

The fact of the matter here is that you don't know what's going to be proposed and to frame what you don't know as "an awful lot like the ACA" is speculative horseshit.

How about we wait and see before making sweeping statements?

I am very interested in what they'll propose, but it is not difficult to guess what it'll be. There is no way around the reality that a market-based plan looks very similar to ACA.

I heard the same thing, that Trump is not adverse to single payer. I'm personally hoping we go this way.

So you've derided ACA and are now simultaneously hoping for single payer? Huh? So Repubs with a Dem POTUS wouldn't pass ACA with a public option (or without) are now magically going to pass not just ACA with a public option, but an actual literal takeover of healthcare with single payer?

A bipartisan approach is desirable for legislation of such significance. Surely even "libtards" like you have learned something by now.

The only partisanship in a scenario where Repubs pass single payer under Donald Trump is among Republicans. It's just documented reality that Obama, Pelosi, etc. all wanted single payer.

I'm curious if you're aware Bill/Hillary first proposed single-payer, and that history which led to democrats passing the GOP alternative, and now people like you proclaiming what they do.

Keep in mind how the answer will make you look.

He doesn't care how the answer makes him look.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I'm curious if you're aware Bill/Hillary first proposed single-payer, and that history which led to democrats passing the GOP alternative, and now people like you proclaiming what they do.

Keep in mind how the answer will make you look.

Bill and Hillary didn't propose single-payer. They proposed universal healthcare.

Keep in mind how a question with such a profound factual error makes you look.

 

[agent00f]

Bill and Hillary didn't propose single-payer. They proposed universal healthcare.

Keep in mind how a question with such a profound factual error makes you look.

This will be particularly funny if you ever figure out what those terms actually mean.

Conservative brain trust represent.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Huh? That makes zero sense. Basic logic definitely doesn't say that.

Then you clearly don't understand the impact of the SCOTUS decision which upheld the mandate on one hand, but substantially limited ACA’s expansion of Medicaid on the other. That's probably why my comment doesn't make any sense to you.

You're the one that tried to pass off a plan as an alternative to the ACA that didn't remotely do what the ACA does so if either one of us is a hack it's you.

You seem to be mistaking me stating an objective fact with criticizing the Republican plan. If they want to accomplish the same goals as the ACA in a market based way then their plan, whatever it is, will look a lot like the ACA. I imagine this is intellectually uncomfortable for people who are trying to find a way to convince themselves to support whatever the Republicans do after years of saying the ACA was horrible, but such is life.

ACA was fatally flawed and dying. I don't know what Republicans will offer and I'll likely offer an opinion at that time. But I'm in no way supporting whatever Republicans do carte blanche..all I'm saying is there are a couple potentially effective pathways beyond the ACA model. But I imagine this is intellectually uncomfortable for people who are trying to find a way to justify demonization of whatever the Republicans may propose after years of saying the ACA is awesome, but such is life.

 

[fskimospy]

Then you clearly don't understand the impact of the SCOTUS decision which upheld the mandate on one hand, but substantially limited ACA’s expansion of Medicaid on the other. That's probably why my comment doesn't make any sense to you.

Based on this comment I'm very certain you don't understand the impact of the SCOTUS decision, haha. By all means though please explain to me why you think a lack of Medicaid expansion while retaining the individual mandate 'doomed' the ACA. I can't wait to hear your explanation.

ACA was fatally flawed and dying. I don't know what Republicans will offer and I'll likely offer an opinion at that time.

The ACA wasn't dying in any way, shape, or form and no nonpartisan group has ever come to that conclusion. You've been consuming too much conservative media.

But I'm in no way supporting whatever Republicans do..all I'm saying is their are a couple potentially effective pathways beyond the ACA model. But I imagine this is intellectually uncomfortable for people who are trying to find a way to justify demonization of whatever the Republicans may propose after years of saying the ACA is awesome, but such is life.

I've asked you to provide an alternative pathway and so far all you've done is link a 'plan' that basically takes us back to what we had before the ACA. If there are all these alternatives out there let's see them!