You be the manager!

[MagnusTheBrewer]

There is a huge difference between the new employee doing a good job learning the job but, not producing at the level of the old employee and not being able to reach the production level required in a reasonable time. You were aware of the weekly deadlines. Your inability to plan should not cost the new employee their job. There are things called temporary employees that can help in crunch periods you know. It sounds like the only one responsible for this poor business practice and lack of planning is the OP.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: kranky
Situation: A long-time employee turns in her resignation to go to another company doing the same job. The company tries to get her to stay but she says the other company has a more appealing career path and her mind is made up. It takes a long time to train someone for this job so the company is impacted noticeably by her leaving. They immediately hire a replacement and start training.

Three months later, the old employee calls and asks if she can come back. Much of what she was told by the new company was exaggeration and there's really no career path for her there.

The company would benefit by bringing the old employee back but cannot keep the new employee in another position, and the new employee would have to be let go. The new employee has done fine in the first three months, and eventually would learn the job completely.

What do you do, and why?

I would realize that most of the work is getting done with out her anyway and lay off the new employee, tell the old employee to beat it, and record the salary as a profit for my division, get a big end of quarter bonus and use my 'success' to get a better job elsewhere before anyone noticed that my division is slowly falling apart.
At least that is what all the successfull managers I've had has done.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: kranky
Situation: A long-time employee turns in her resignation to go to another company doing the same job. The company tries to get her to stay but she says the other company has a more appealing career path and her mind is made up. It takes a long time to train someone for this job so the company is impacted noticeably by her leaving. They immediately hire a replacement and start training.

Three months later, the old employee calls and asks if she can come back. Much of what she was told by the new company was exaggeration and there's really no career path for her there.

The company would benefit by bringing the old employee back but cannot keep the new employee in another position, and the new employee would have to be let go. The new employee has done fine in the first three months, and eventually would learn the job completely.

What do you do, and why?

I would realize that I am doing most of the work anyway and lay off the new employee, tell the old employee to beat it, and record the salary as a profit for my division, get a big end of quarter bonus and use my 'success' to get a better job elsewhere before anyone noticed that my division is slowly falling apart.
At least that is what all the successfull managers I've had has done.

And they say the American dream is dead!

 

[acheron]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: kranky
Situation: A long-time employee turns in her resignation to go to another company doing the same job. The company tries to get her to stay but she says the other company has a more appealing career path and her mind is made up. It takes a long time to train someone for this job so the company is impacted noticeably by her leaving. They immediately hire a replacement and start training.

Three months later, the old employee calls and asks if she can come back. Much of what she was told by the new company was exaggeration and there's really no career path for her there.

The company would benefit by bringing the old employee back but cannot keep the new employee in another position, and the new employee would have to be let go. The new employee has done fine in the first three months, and eventually would learn the job completely.

What do you do, and why?

I would realize that most of the work is getting done with out her anyway and lay off the new employee, tell the old employee to beat it, and record the salary as a profit for my division, get a big end of quarter bonus and use my 'success' to get a better job elsewhere before anyone noticed that my division is slowly falling apart.
At least that is what all the successfull managers I've had has done.

:thumbsup:

 

[manlymatt83]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: nkgreen
Keep the new employee. The old one made a decision to leave, and you can't punish the new one for her mistake.

have to agree

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: kranky
Situation: A long-time employee turns in her resignation to go to another company doing the same job. The company tries to get her to stay but she says the other company has a more appealing career path and her mind is made up. It takes a long time to train someone for this job so the company is impacted noticeably by her leaving. They immediately hire a replacement and start training.

Three months later, the old employee calls and asks if she can come back. Much of what she was told by the new company was exaggeration and there's really no career path for her there.

The company would benefit by bringing the old employee back but cannot keep the new employee in another position, and the new employee would have to be let go. The new employee has done fine in the first three months, and eventually would learn the job completely.

What do you do, and why?

to bad...she made a choice...the fact it was the wrong one....not your problem.


Life is not fair...never has been and never will be.....people who always think the grass is greener never seem to learn that little fact....some time someone has to teach it to them....if I was in this position I would relish telling her to FOAD...who the hell does she think she is that she can leave on a whim and just waltz back in when she damn well pleases.....fuck her.

I have been in this same position with people and no matter how good a worker they were...once they left they never came back....ESPECIALLY if the position had been already filled.

 

[BW86]

Originally posted by: Vehemence
Sorry bitch, you're out of luck.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
who the hell does she think she is that she can leave on a whim and just waltz back in when she damn well pleases

How do you know she left on a whim and not after a long period of dissatisfaction that the company had no place for her to be promoted in the future?

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Wheezer
who the hell does she think she is that she can leave on a whim and just waltz back in when she damn well pleases

How do you know she left on a whim and not after a long period of dissatisfaction that the company had no place for her to be promoted in the future?

Then why would she come back if she was so dissatified?

 

[SmoochyTX]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Wheezer
who the hell does she think she is that she can leave on a whim and just waltz back in when she damn well pleases

How do you know she left on a whim and not after a long period of dissatisfaction that the company had no place for her to be promoted in the future?

She couldn't have been too unhappy if she asked for her job back.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: SmoochyTX

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Wheezer
who the hell does she think she is that she can leave on a whim and just waltz back in when she damn well pleases

How do you know she left on a whim and not after a long period of dissatisfaction that the company had no place for her to be promoted in the future?

She couldn't have been too unhappy if she asked for her job back.

According to OP there was no upward mobility. A good job with no upward mobility is still > a bad job with no upward mobility. But we don't know the circumstances that led to the initial departure.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Personally I would of kept the new employee but guess the decision you made might of been better for the company. Chances should be good she wont leave again as I'm sure this situation scared her as she could of ended up jobless.

Just curious, how did the new employee handle being asked to leave?

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
There is a huge difference between the new employee doing a good job learning the job but, not producing at the level of the old employee and not being able to reach the production level required in a reasonable time. You were aware of the weekly deadlines. Your inability to plan should not cost the new employee their job. There are things called temporary employees that can help in crunch periods you know. It sounds like the only one responsible for this poor business practice and lack of planning is the OP.

Agreed, I find this very unethical. You hired a new employee who was under the impression that they would be given the chance to learn the job in a reasonable amount of time and be in a permanent position should they perform well. Obviously lay-offs and whatnot are understandable reasons to go back on your commitment, but that is not the case here. Instead you fired that new employee because somebody better came along. So in essence when you hired this person it was on a temporary basis until someone more skilled came along. That being the case you should have hired a temp until you could find an experienced person to do the work.

To put it more simply you advertised for a permanent position but hired for a temp position, lying to all your applicants and wasting everyone's time.

 

[kranky]

I'll try to fill in around the edges a little. Obviously I'll defend my actions but there have been good points raised on the other side.

The loyalty issue cuts both ways. Yes, the employee left and you could say that showed a lack of loyalty to the company. But the employee had been there a long time (10+ years) and asked to return just 3 months later. As I said, in my experience when I rehire people in this situation, they don't leave again. (Note: not all such cases require having to let someone else go - this time was unusual.) I feel I was showing loyalty to a long-time valuable employee who made an error in judgment. I have observed this increases employee loyalty. And keep in mind that we had a few long talks which took place before the decision was made so I could fully understand the employee's motivation.

The employee had a career path in place, but said to me the other company's career path was more appealing. It turned out they just fed her a line to get her to take the job. She found that out pretty fast. She was not dissatisfied with our career path at all.

Had she been unhappy here, I would not have taken her back. If I felt she would just come back until she found another job, I would not have taken her back. Nor would I if I felt it would have hurt morale. She is well-liked and recognized as highly skilled. Her co-workers are glad she came back.

In my opinion, it would have taken the new person another year or so to become fully productive. That's not a reflection on the person, it's the nature of the position.

I do not feel I lied to the new employee when hiring him. There was no intent of making it a temp position or having him simply "warm the bench" until someone else came along. I could not know the old employee might want to return.

Some felt that factoring in the impact on the new employee was inappropriate. I'm not suggesting the outcome would have been any different, but it would have been a tougher decision. And I did say I will call the hiring manager at the other company and recommend the new employee. They certainly have an opening, and the new employee now has 3 months experience he didn't have before. Perhaps he'll get the job and it turns out to be a better fit for everyone.

 

[JJChicken]

:thum

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: kranky
Situation: A long-time employee turns in her resignation to go to another company doing the same job. The company tries to get her to stay but she says the other company has a more appealing career path and her mind is made up. It takes a long time to train someone for this job so the company is impacted noticeably by her leaving. They immediately hire a replacement and start training.

Three months later, the old employee calls and asks if she can come back. Much of what she was told by the new company was exaggeration and there's really no career path for her there.

The company would benefit by bringing the old employee back but cannot keep the new employee in another position, and the new employee would have to be let go. The new employee has done fine in the first three months, and eventually would learn the job completely.

What do you do, and why?

I would keep the new employee and continue training him/her.

The old employee did not have company loyalty, and was blinded by promises that weren't kept. Sounds like she would jump again if she had the opportunity. Now, I would learn from this and make sure the new employee cross trains with another employee so when he/she is out on vacation or also quits, there isn't such a gap.

:thumbsup:

 

[Farang]

Well take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm not too experienced in the working world. I just think with all the talk about loyalty, as a third person in the office I would see this as a demonstration of my company having zero loyalty towards its employees and then reciprocate accordingly. A lot of people say loyalty doesn't exist and that may be true but that isn't what I'm going to try to address.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Kranky it was your choice and your fuck up. I guess all that can be said is I'm glad I don't work for you and, as unlikely as it may be, I would not hire you to work for me.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: kranky
I'll try to fill in around the edges a little. Obviously I'll defend my actions but there have been good points raised on the other side.

The loyalty issue cuts both ways. Yes, the employee left and you could say that showed a lack of loyalty to the company. But the employee had been there a long time (10+ years) and asked to return just 3 months later. As I said, in my experience when I rehire people in this situation, they don't leave again. (Note: not all such cases require having to let someone else go - this time was unusual.) I feel I was showing loyalty to a long-time valuable employee who made an error in judgment. I have observed this increases employee loyalty. And keep in mind that we had a few long talks which took place before the decision was made so I could fully understand the employee's motivation.

The employee had a career path in place, but said to me the other company's career path was more appealing. It turned out they just fed her a line to get her to take the job. She found that out pretty fast. She was not dissatisfied with our career path at all.

Had she been unhappy here, I would not have taken her back. If I felt she would just come back until she found another job, I would not have taken her back. Nor would I if I felt it would have hurt morale. She is well-liked and recognized as highly skilled. Her co-workers are glad she came back.

In my opinion, it would have taken the new person another year or so to become fully productive. That's not a reflection on the person, it's the nature of the position.

I do not feel I lied to the new employee when hiring him. There was no intent of making it a temp position or having him simply "warm the bench" until someone else came along. I could not know the old employee might want to return.

Some felt that factoring in the impact on the new employee was inappropriate. I'm not suggesting the outcome would have been any different, but it would have been a tougher decision. And I did say I will call the hiring manager at the other company and recommend the new employee. They certainly have an opening, and the new employee now has 3 months experience he didn't have before. Perhaps he'll get the job and it turns out to be a better fit for everyone.

in situations like this....there is an old saying..

"Fuck me once, shame on you...Fuck me twice, shame on me"


Good employee or not, you have now opened the door and set a precedence.


Not just for her and not just for your dept...but for everyone else, and throughout the company.

People need to know...a business cannot function effectively when employees play musical jobs.


Do you REALLY think that after 10 years an employee will some painful decision to jump ship after talking to a competitor?

You questioned my wording when I used the term "whim".....everything you stated in your last post says just that....the quarterback sweet talked her out of her panties on prom night now she wants to cry foul and have a "do over"

Sorry it does not work that way.

If, after 10 years this is how she shows her loyalty to you her boss, the company and her co-workers...you are pretty much guaranteed this will happen again.


Put it too you this way...if she had talked to you prior and told you her plans and you informed her that "if" she left she "could" be rehired...no promises, but if she was to come back she would not have her seniority, her former pay, her comp time, her vacation and her benefits until after 60 or 90 days (whatever your company policy is for noobs) and would essentially start over....do you think she would have left?...I would bet the farm no, she would not.

 

[kranky]

If people who left and came back had a history of leaving again, I would agree that it isn't a wise move to let them come back. I can only go by my own personal experiences - long-time employees who leave and in a short time want to come back have not left a second time. A lot of replies said it's inevitable that she will just be leaving again, and perhaps that will happen sometime, but it hasn't happened before, and there's no reason to assume that's the case.

I have worked in sweatshops and I have worked in good companies. Some people have never worked anywhere else, and sometimes they get the idea that because it's not perfect, somewhere else is going to be better. And sometimes that other place is not very good at all. Looks good from the outside, they talk a good game, but once you join the team you see it was better where you used to be. If they realize they had a good thing at a good company and will be a very motivated employee in the future if they are rehired, that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

I once had a person at his 1 year anniversary review say right at the start of the meeting, "Look, before you even get started, if I'm not going to get a 25% raise, I'm quitting." I explained that his expectations were rather inflated - 25% raises after 1 year for someone right out of college just do not happen. He didn't care, didn't believe what I was saying, and quit. A year later he wanted to come back, but I passed. That's a person who won't be happy. The subject of this thread was happy, we were happy, and was sold a bill of goods to go to another place. It happens.

If the answer should have been "no, you can't come back" because she wanted a do-over, I'm not really following that logic. She did not assume she had a pass to come back. Nobody ever says that when someone leaves a job. No promises were made or implied.

Saying someone who left can never, ever come back is sometimes going to put you in a position where you have a job opening, and you're willing to consider everyone on earth except the one most qualified person, because that person once worked there. That wasn't the case this time since the job was filled, but a blanket rule saying people have one and only one chance to work at a company isn't really a good idea IMHO.

 

[finite automaton]

Originally posted by: kranky
If people who left and came back had a history of leaving again, I would agree that it isn't a wise move to let them come back. I can only go by my own personal experiences - long-time employees who leave and in a short time want to come back have not left a second time. A lot of replies said it's inevitable that she will just be leaving again, and perhaps that will happen sometime, but it hasn't happened before, and there's no reason to assume that's the case.

I have worked in sweatshops and I have worked in good companies. Some people have never worked anywhere else, and sometimes they get the idea that because it's not perfect, somewhere else is going to be better. And sometimes that other place is not very good at all. Looks good from the outside, they talk a good game, but once you join the team you see it was better where you used to be. If they realize they had a good thing at a good company and will be a very motivated employee in the future if they are rehired, that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

I once had a person at his 1 year anniversary review say right at the start of the meeting, "Look, before you even get started, if I'm not going to get a 25% raise, I'm quitting." I explained that his expectations were rather inflated - 25% raises after 1 year for someone right out of college just do not happen. He didn't care, didn't believe what I was saying, and quit. A year later he wanted to come back, but I passed. That's a person who won't be happy. The subject of this thread was happy, we were happy, and was sold a bill of goods to go to another place. It happens.

If the answer should have been "no, you can't come back" because she wanted a do-over, I'm not really following that logic. She did not assume she had a pass to come back. Nobody ever says that when someone leaves a job. No promises were made or implied.

Saying someone who left can never, ever come back is sometimes going to put you in a position where you have a job opening, and you're willing to consider everyone on earth except the one most qualified person, because that person once worked there. That wasn't the case this time since the job was filled, but a blanket rule saying people have one and only one chance to work at a company isn't really a good idea IMHO.

I take back what I said. You have apparently put a lot of thought into it.

Has her start date been reset? If so, did she lose out on a pension or anything?

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: finite automaton
Has her start date been reset? If so, did she lose out on a pension or anything?

Her start date was adjusted for the period of time she was gone (a couple months). Still maintains 10+ years of service for the purposes of vacation. No pension, just 401k.

 

[zerocool84]

The thing is you have to be a good manager and be able to tell how good an employee will be by the 3rd month. If the old person did such a good job/irreplaceable job then maybe you could let her back. If the new person can do just as well then no reason to let the old employee come back.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Vehemence
Sorry bitch, you're out of luck.

indeed. shes looking to go anyway, sucks to be her.

 

[daniel1113]

Company loyalty... lol. What a crock of shit.

While it's nearly impossible to comment on a situation without being involved, the OP presents a good argument for his position. I hope it works out.

 

[Paladin3]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Company loyalty... lol. What a crock of shit.

Agreed. Companies profit from work done by employees, but too often company loyalty is cited anytime an employee tries to do better for themselves or their family.