YOU be the manager - what would you do?

[kranky]

There is a group of a twenty people who all do the same work on a computer. The group ranges from 35 years experience down to 1 year. The actual nature of the work isn't material.

Up until recently, only about 5% of the work was very complex. But things are changing, and now about 30% of the work could be described as very complex (VC). Generally, the people with the most experience are the least able to do the very complex work because they have less of an aptitude for the VC work, are less motivated, and/or have less formal education.

It turns out that doing more of the VC work would allow the total amount of work to be done with fewer people. This is because the VC work can be done in fewer, but more complicated, steps. Only about half the people have proven to be able to learn how to do the VC work. Those who cannot do the VC work have been trained, and have had extra training, but it is just beyond their abilities, and they agree that just can't master it. Additional training is not going to work.

You are being urged to cut costs because your competitors are doing the work overseas and can do the work cheaper. You can cut your own costs by getting rid of the 10 people who can't do the VC work, but they have 20+ years experience and will have a difficult time finding another job that pays anywhere near the same amount.

What would you do as the manager?

 

[yllus]

Cut the older workers. The business world is a brutal one and the reality is you have to compete. But I wouldn't enjoy it in the least.

 

[maziwanka]

there's nothing those 10 ppl can be reassigned to do?

 

[Ronstang]

It is a business, not a charity, you get rid of the people that can't pull their wieght. I'm sorry but that is how the world works. You can keep the older people so you feel good and watch the business become uncompetitive and jeopardize everyone's job or trim the fat as necessary. The right decision is not usually the easiest.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: maziwanka
there's nothing those 10 ppl can be reassigned to do?

No, because their skills aren't used anywhere else.

 

[K1052]

I'd attempt to find other work for them inside the company providing that they have been good employees. Failing that, you have little choice other than to let them go.

 

[poopaskoopa]

Cut the people you need to cut, but pick from the most expensive ones first. Then start looking over your own shoulder. I've seen the manager go first, or be among the first to go.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Do what's best for the business. If they can't be arsed after being retrained and have zilch motivation, why should you continue to employ them? The experience they have seems irrelevant if your company wants to concentrate on the VC work that they're either uninterested in or incapable of completing.

If there are people in that group of 10 who are valuable* to the company but unable to do the VC work, try to find them something they can do within the same company. That's all you can do if the retraining doesn't cut it.

i.e. hard workers, good attitude and motivation

Edit: woah, 6 responses by the time I finished mine! :Q

 

[GasX]

A SMART manager will get rid of the dead weight and make his area of responsibility as efficient as possible.

A GOOD manager will also get rid of the dead weight, but will make an effort to either help them find a place elsewhere or give them a hint of the change in advance so they can do something about it.

 

[maziwanka]

i still don't think i would fire them. i'm sure i could find something else for them to do (even if it is in a completely different field/division within the company).

its unreasonable to ask a long time employee to search for work elsewhere.

 

[Injury]

Friendship and compassion have no bearing on decisions in the business world.

Hope they are ready to retire.

 

[waggy]

you are the manager and not mommy.

I am there to make money for the company not make sure they have a job. THOUGH when i owned my business i did try my best to keep everyone i hired. Even when times got lean. Its hard to let someone go who is relying on you for there pay.

 

[AlienCraft]

What goes around, comes around.
If you cannot get more productivity out of your staff, they will have to be cut.
HOWEVER, in the words of another cliche, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, meaning that one day, the same may happen to you.
Make sure all employees are judged by the same standard, and not on their age, lest you be an AGEIST, and subject your company to an age discrimination law suit.

 

[Bryophyte]

Were they given a chance to update their skills over the years? Any company incentives to take classes? In the tech field, people can't afford to relax and ride on their outdated skills. Even if the company didn't grease the skids for them, they should have kept up with schooling, though it would be nice if the company had been supportive of them (tuition help or some flexible hours or something.)

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: yllus
Cut the older workers. The business world is a brutal one and the reality is you have to compete. But I wouldn't enjoy it in the least.

Originally posted by: Ronstang
It is a business, not a charity, you get rid of the people that can't pull their wieght. I'm sorry but that is how the world works. You can keep the older people so you feel good and watch the business become uncompetitive and jeopardize everyone's job or trim the fat as necessary. The right decision is not usually the easiest.

Originally posted by: Injury
Friendship and compassion have no bearing on decisions in the business world.

Hope they are ready to retire.

Your assumption(s) that is the older workers who are not "getting" the VC work is ageist. Nowhere in the story does he say that it is the older workers.
Try to not fall into the "younger is better" trap, lest you fall in it yourself one day.

yes yes.

but let me quote the OP for a second "You are being urged to cut costs because your competitors are doing the work overseas and can do the work cheaper. You can cut your own costs by getting rid of the 10 people who can't do the VC work, but they have 20+ years experience and will have a difficult time finding another job that pays anywhere near the same amount. "


I have bolded the reason everyone is saying older. So maybe you should not fall into the "not reading the whole thread and accusing people of something else" trap?

 

[SuepaFly]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: yllus
Cut the older workers. The business world is a brutal one and the reality is you have to compete. But I wouldn't enjoy it in the least.

Originally posted by: Ronstang
It is a business, not a charity, you get rid of the people that can't pull their wieght. I'm sorry but that is how the world works. You can keep the older people so you feel good and watch the business become uncompetitive and jeopardize everyone's job or trim the fat as necessary. The right decision is not usually the easiest.

Originally posted by: Injury
Friendship and compassion have no bearing on decisions in the business world.

Hope they are ready to retire.

Your assumption(s) that is the older workers who are not "getting" the VC work is ageist. Nowhere in the story does he say that it is the older workers.
Try to not fall into the "younger is better" trap, lest you fall in it yourself one day.

I thought that he said in his post that the people who have been there longer are less able to do the VC work. Thus, within the group, you can assume most of the ones that have 35 years experience or more are probably older. Espeically since the work used to only be about 5% VC, it seems to be entry level. I don't think it's ageist to assume that the people with more experience are older.

Generally, the people with the most experience are the least able to do the very complex work because they have less of an aptitude for the VC work, are less motivated, and/or have less formal education.

 

[J0hnny]

We face the same exact problem in our company. However, our company prides itself in never firing an employee at the expense of cost savings and as a result, our company is a fortune 100 company today.

Here is how management does it:

1) Find possible work elsewhere for experienced employees.

2) Contract out. You contract out for the work using low wage employees through consultants or temp work. That way, you don't have to pay the worker benefits. This kind of goes hand in hand with #1 though.

 

[Viper GTS]

You're not running a charity, cut the people who aren't up to the job.

If you can, relocating them to another position would be nice but if you can't you can't.

Viper GTS

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: yllus
Cut the older workers. The business world is a brutal one and the reality is you have to compete. But I wouldn't enjoy it in the least.

Originally posted by: Ronstang
It is a business, not a charity, you get rid of the people that can't pull their wieght. I'm sorry but that is how the world works. You can keep the older people so you feel good and watch the business become uncompetitive and jeopardize everyone's job or trim the fat as necessary. The right decision is not usually the easiest.

Originally posted by: Injury
Friendship and compassion have no bearing on decisions in the business world.

Hope they are ready to retire.

Your assumption(s) that is the older workers who are not "getting" the VC work is ageist. Nowhere in the story does he say that it is the older workers.
Try to not fall into the "younger is better" trap, lest you fall in it yourself one day.

yes yes.

but let me quote the OP for a second "You are being urged to cut costs because your competitors are doing the work overseas and can do the work cheaper. You can cut your own costs by getting rid of the 10 people who can't do the VC work, but they have 20+ years experience and will have a difficult time finding another job that pays anywhere near the same amount. "


I have bolded the reason everyone is saying older. So maybe you should not fall into the "not reading the whole thread and accusing people of something else" trap?

Please note the edited post. I re-read the OP and saw the ageist language hidden with in the text.

 

[waggy]

Also if possible offer them "early retirment". heh

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: SuepaFly

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: yllus
Cut the older workers. The business world is a brutal one and the reality is you have to compete. But I wouldn't enjoy it in the least.

Originally posted by: Ronstang
It is a business, not a charity, you get rid of the people that can't pull their wieght. I'm sorry but that is how the world works. You can keep the older people so you feel good and watch the business become uncompetitive and jeopardize everyone's job or trim the fat as necessary. The right decision is not usually the easiest.

Originally posted by: Injury
Friendship and compassion have no bearing on decisions in the business world.

Hope they are ready to retire.

Your assumption(s) that is the older workers who are not "getting" the VC work is ageist. Nowhere in the story does he say that it is the older workers.
Try to not fall into the "younger is better" trap, lest you fall in it yourself one day.

I thought that he said in his post that the people who have been there longer are less able to do the VC work. Thus, within the group, you can assume most of the ones that have 35 years experience or more are probably older. Espeically since the work used to only be about 5% VC, it seems to be entry level. I don't think it's ageist to assume that the people with more experience are older.

Generally, the people with the most experience are the least able to do the very complex work because they have less of an aptitude for the VC work, are less motivated, and/or have less formal education.

Please note the edited post. I re-read the OP and saw the ageist language hidden within the post.

 

[Hammer]

easy decision. trim the fat.

 

[Tom]

"You are being urged to cut costs because your competitors are doing the work overseas and can do the work cheaper. "

Given the "business is all that matters" responses that most have posted so far, the answer would be to fire the whole division and move overseas.

My opinion is different. People don't exist for the good of business, business exists for the good of people. Look at the entire picture, including who your customers are, what kind of work can the people that work for you do, what commitments, tacit or otherwise has the business made to it's employees(if some of them have worked there 35 years, that implies both employer and employee have made commitments to each other), and other issues I haven't thought of.

With imagination and leadership a situation like this shouldn't happen. Sounds like a failure of management/ownership, but of course, they aren't going to fire themselves.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Tom
"You are being urged to cut costs because your competitors are doing the work overseas and can do the work cheaper. "

Given the "business is all that matters" responses that most have posted so far, the answer would be to fire the whole division and move overseas.

My opinion is different. People don't exist for the good of business, business exists for the good of people. Look at the entire picture, including who your customers are, what kind of work can the people that work for you do, what commitments, tacit or otherwise has the business made to it's employees(if some of them have worked there 35 years, that implies both employer and employee have made commitments to each other), and other issues I haven't thought of.

With imagination and leadership a situation like this shouldn't happen. Sounds like a failure of management/ownership, but of course, they aren't going to fire themselves.

Agreed. This is the best answer so far, imo.

 

[Semidevil]

a business needs to do what it needs to do to improve efficiency....but to be nice, I would let the older folks be aware of what is going on....and then, after a while, if they still can't cut it, then just have to let go. I"M sure the good ones will make it somehow if you give them advance notice....